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	<title>Comments on: The 2-1 Grind</title>
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	<description>LRB5 + 6 Tactics and Strategy</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-953</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-953</guid>
		<description>With strong teams I almost always choose to kick for this reason. I&#039;ll happily be a bit gung-ho in the hope of either swiftly getting the ball or if the opposition break through be sure to pressure them so they have to score quickly. I then do everything in my power to have the ball (or at least control it and make sure the other team can&#039;t take it far) for the best part of 11 or 12 turns.
Of course it can backfire if you get stalled too much and end up failing to score on one of your drives but so long as you&#039;re prepared to make a break when you need to or take a gamble when you realise the opponent is doing a better job of holding you up than you&#039;d banked on it can work a treat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With strong teams I almost always choose to kick for this reason. I&#8217;ll happily be a bit gung-ho in the hope of either swiftly getting the ball or if the opposition break through be sure to pressure them so they have to score quickly. I then do everything in my power to have the ball (or at least control it and make sure the other team can&#8217;t take it far) for the best part of 11 or 12 turns.<br />
Of course it can backfire if you get stalled too much and end up failing to score on one of your drives but so long as you&#8217;re prepared to make a break when you need to or take a gamble when you realise the opponent is doing a better job of holding you up than you&#8217;d banked on it can work a treat.</p>
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		<title>By: BoBliness</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>BoBliness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-695</guid>
		<description>On the forums you&#039;ll find a thread on delay tactics if anyones interested. 

I&#039;ve been experimenting with dump-off pass. I think its got a few benefits that HMP doesnt offer (like it earns SPPs for starters!)  and it is FAR more frustrating for the opposing coach to deal with. 

its also very little-used on the online game (and I suspect on board game also, I rarely see it used)  so its got a surprise factor to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the forums you&#8217;ll find a thread on delay tactics if anyones interested. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been experimenting with dump-off pass. I think its got a few benefits that HMP doesnt offer (like it earns SPPs for starters!)  and it is FAR more frustrating for the opposing coach to deal with. </p>
<p>its also very little-used on the online game (and I suspect on board game also, I rarely see it used)  so its got a surprise factor to it.</p>
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		<title>By: BoBliness</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>BoBliness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-628</guid>
		<description>Its still quite risky, particularly as noted if you&#039;re playing someone who&#039;s seen it before. 
I&#039;m interested in the deliberate anti-cage suggested, with the two lines and falling back. 
I normally find if you&#039;re trying to delay, and they have a couple of nasty tackle/mightyblow/piling on  players...you dont have many recievers on the pitch by turn 4-5. 

I&#039;m thinking maybe I should be delaying with my entire team in my half for the first four turns and then breaking as if I&#039;d just recieved a kick on about turn 4 and seeing if I can get them to bring almost all of their team forward before I do the break, maybe get to burn an extra turn with my catcher holding the ball up in their end zone. 

In general I&#039;m finding at high team ratings (2100+) elves are suffering heavily due to the prevalence of tackle online. 

The open league gives people the oppurtunity to set up teams for one particular type of opponent and then only challenge that opponent type. 

I ran up against a human team with 9 players with tackle, all four blitzers running mighty blow, guard, tackle, piling on. 
Thats NOT pretty for a wood elf team, no matter your skill choices. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its still quite risky, particularly as noted if you&#8217;re playing someone who&#8217;s seen it before.<br />
I&#8217;m interested in the deliberate anti-cage suggested, with the two lines and falling back. <br />
I normally find if you&#8217;re trying to delay, and they have a couple of nasty tackle/mightyblow/piling on  players&#8230;you dont have many recievers on the pitch by turn 4-5. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking maybe I should be delaying with my entire team in my half for the first four turns and then breaking as if I&#8217;d just recieved a kick on about turn 4 and seeing if I can get them to bring almost all of their team forward before I do the break, maybe get to burn an extra turn with my catcher holding the ball up in their end zone. </p>
<p>In general I&#8217;m finding at high team ratings (2100+) elves are suffering heavily due to the prevalence of tackle online. </p>
<p>The open league gives people the oppurtunity to set up teams for one particular type of opponent and then only challenge that opponent type. </p>
<p>I ran up against a human team with 9 players with tackle, all four blitzers running mighty blow, guard, tackle, piling on. <br />
Thats NOT pretty for a wood elf team, no matter your skill choices. </p>
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		<title>By: Viajero</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>Viajero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-519</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the HMP idea Bob... will definitely try it once HMP has been fixed on the Cyanide server.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the HMP idea Bob&#8230; will definitely try it once HMP has been fixed on the Cyanide server.</p>
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		<title>By: BoBliness</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-493</link>
		<dc:creator>BoBliness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-493</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve played around with hail mary pass as a method of stalling. 
I know most people have probably thought about it and ditched it but bear with me. 
It only works once per game generally and quite often its tricky to ever land it on an opponent that has ever seen it before however:

You recieve (Wood elves commonly in my case) and you back your ball carrier back to the rear of your zone (My thrower doesnt have HMP generally, its often a linesman that doubled early in the league) with your Hail Mary player. 

You break your hole in their line and rush all your catchers through their lines, however you hold them four squares or less squares on the opponents side of the line of scrimmage. In my case I prefer to hold them three squares in, though whatever you need to do to keep them as a credible two turn scoring threat (which in wood elf case is 3 squares in, 4-5 for linesmen). 

The opponent then, the first time they see it, will move to cover the recievers and move some down towards your carrier. IF they have not seen the play or are careless, they will not leave anyone within about 8 squares of their touchdown zone. Since there is little percieved point if they could instead be directly marking a reciever. 

As a result you now spend as many turns as you can keeping your thrower clear and simply breaking one square with the recievers. If you can, you keep your opponent believing that he is denying you the pass/score. 

Either way, the gain from this move is effectively one extra turn of stall, at the cost of additional risk (though the risk is VERY low if the opponent is a low movement team)

The reason you gain a turn is simple. You are not tied into scoring the turn you make the pass as you usually would be with any other stall. Generally if you have stalled as long as you can (and next turn your thrower/carrier is going to be hammered), then you have no choice but to make the pass and score since once the ball is on your reciever its unlikely you&#039;ll get to stall much more without increased risk (depending on your opponent). Additionally your actual scorer options are limited to those within reasonable pass or pass/handoff chains. 

With a properly executed hail mary pass the throw is the last action of your turn and you dont have any recievers in position to catch it. They are all still 3-5 squares from the line of scrimmage, screening any opponent players that are actually close enough to potentially get to the ball after the pass, and still well within range to run, pick up and score. 

Generally it pushes your delay out by one turn at very low risk. As I stated earlier however, it generally only works once before an opponent keeps a player back (though this doesnt stop it necessarily).

It mostly relies on the fact that very few people use hail mary pass and therefore few people have set ways of dealing with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve played around with hail mary pass as a method of stalling.<br />
I know most people have probably thought about it and ditched it but bear with me.<br />
It only works once per game generally and quite often its tricky to ever land it on an opponent that has ever seen it before however:</p>
<p>You recieve (Wood elves commonly in my case) and you back your ball carrier back to the rear of your zone (My thrower doesnt have HMP generally, its often a linesman that doubled early in the league) with your Hail Mary player. </p>
<p>You break your hole in their line and rush all your catchers through their lines, however you hold them four squares or less squares on the opponents side of the line of scrimmage. In my case I prefer to hold them three squares in, though whatever you need to do to keep them as a credible two turn scoring threat (which in wood elf case is 3 squares in, 4-5 for linesmen). </p>
<p>The opponent then, the first time they see it, will move to cover the recievers and move some down towards your carrier. IF they have not seen the play or are careless, they will not leave anyone within about 8 squares of their touchdown zone. Since there is little percieved point if they could instead be directly marking a reciever. </p>
<p>As a result you now spend as many turns as you can keeping your thrower clear and simply breaking one square with the recievers. If you can, you keep your opponent believing that he is denying you the pass/score. </p>
<p>Either way, the gain from this move is effectively one extra turn of stall, at the cost of additional risk (though the risk is VERY low if the opponent is a low movement team)</p>
<p>The reason you gain a turn is simple. You are not tied into scoring the turn you make the pass as you usually would be with any other stall. Generally if you have stalled as long as you can (and next turn your thrower/carrier is going to be hammered), then you have no choice but to make the pass and score since once the ball is on your reciever its unlikely you&#8217;ll get to stall much more without increased risk (depending on your opponent). Additionally your actual scorer options are limited to those within reasonable pass or pass/handoff chains. </p>
<p>With a properly executed hail mary pass the throw is the last action of your turn and you dont have any recievers in position to catch it. They are all still 3-5 squares from the line of scrimmage, screening any opponent players that are actually close enough to potentially get to the ball after the pass, and still well within range to run, pick up and score. </p>
<p>Generally it pushes your delay out by one turn at very low risk. As I stated earlier however, it generally only works once before an opponent keeps a player back (though this doesnt stop it necessarily).</p>
<p>It mostly relies on the fact that very few people use hail mary pass and therefore few people have set ways of dealing with it.</p>
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		<title>By: VoidSeer</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>VoidSeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-376</guid>
		<description>I mostly play woodelves, and I&#039;m a big fan of ball control.
If  I&#039;m receiving, I&#039;ll definitely try to stall and score on turn 8. Leading 1-0 at the start of the second half will put some pressure on a bashy team.
If you form up on two ranks and keep out of tackle zones, you give only one blitz per turn to your opponent. And since you&#039;re a lot more mobile, you should only concede 1 square per turn.
Your opponent will have, then, to take risks to score and play the ball. This is where agi team shine, you&#039;ll be ready to exploit any fumble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mostly play woodelves, and I&#8217;m a big fan of ball control.<br />
If  I&#8217;m receiving, I&#8217;ll definitely try to stall and score on turn 8. Leading 1-0 at the start of the second half will put some pressure on a bashy team.<br />
If you form up on two ranks and keep out of tackle zones, you give only one blitz per turn to your opponent. And since you&#8217;re a lot more mobile, you should only concede 1 square per turn.<br />
Your opponent will have, then, to take risks to score and play the ball. This is where agi team shine, you&#8217;ll be ready to exploit any fumble.</p>
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		<title>By: Viajero</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Viajero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 07:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-368</guid>
		<description>Not sure if it is down to my luck but... I have tried stalling in most of my latest games to see how it goes, but poor results so far.

Difficult to discipline oneself to stall when your opponent leaves a hole in their initial formation through which I do not even need to blitz... but hey let&#039;s test the idea, I told myself.

Since the combos required to get to TD after a few turns are more complex I ve experienced negative results in dices, some double 1&#039;s on my part and interception 6&#039;s on my opponents, that prevent me from seeing this as a practical way so far. Need to wait and see if lucks evens out in the medium term to conclude anything.

On the otehr hand, I think stalling requires a more hardened kind of player, one that can keep its cool under a relentless advance from the bashy opponent closing in into your thrower or carrier little by little.

In theory that may boode well for the agile player since this means the bashy team is spreading thin across the whole field, but still, nerves of steel are required to keep ones cool and line up the winning combo, most likely than not one that can cover most of the field in 1 turn.

I think one of the keys is to think through the whole team positioning to get there from your back yard, taking into account that some of the players in the mid field or beyond may be down and teh chain may break. Keeping a viable chain with some alternative paths all the way up are key and seem to be the toughest part of the strategy.

As such I&#039;d say this stalling way is not for the feint harted or the inexperienced player indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure if it is down to my luck but&#8230; I have tried stalling in most of my latest games to see how it goes, but poor results so far.</p>
<p>Difficult to discipline oneself to stall when your opponent leaves a hole in their initial formation through which I do not even need to blitz&#8230; but hey let&#8217;s test the idea, I told myself.</p>
<p>Since the combos required to get to TD after a few turns are more complex I ve experienced negative results in dices, some double 1&#8242;s on my part and interception 6&#8242;s on my opponents, that prevent me from seeing this as a practical way so far. Need to wait and see if lucks evens out in the medium term to conclude anything.</p>
<p>On the otehr hand, I think stalling requires a more hardened kind of player, one that can keep its cool under a relentless advance from the bashy opponent closing in into your thrower or carrier little by little.</p>
<p>In theory that may boode well for the agile player since this means the bashy team is spreading thin across the whole field, but still, nerves of steel are required to keep ones cool and line up the winning combo, most likely than not one that can cover most of the field in 1 turn.</p>
<p>I think one of the keys is to think through the whole team positioning to get there from your back yard, taking into account that some of the players in the mid field or beyond may be down and teh chain may break. Keeping a viable chain with some alternative paths all the way up are key and seem to be the toughest part of the strategy.</p>
<p>As such I&#8217;d say this stalling way is not for the feint harted or the inexperienced player indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Coach</title>
		<link>http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>Coach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/?p=559#comment-362</guid>
		<description>I still advocate scoring with the agility team and then trying to turn over the bashing team to go in 2-0. Just not in 2 turns, if you do it in 5 turns (stalling for the whole half is really really hard for agility teams), then the bashing team has to take more risks to equalise before half time. This makes the turning them over and scoring again for a 2-0 lead easier for the agility team and also means less turns of the bashing team grinding them down if you can&#039;t turn them over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still advocate scoring with the agility team and then trying to turn over the bashing team to go in 2-0. Just not in 2 turns, if you do it in 5 turns (stalling for the whole half is really really hard for agility teams), then the bashing team has to take more risks to equalise before half time. This makes the turning them over and scoring again for a 2-0 lead easier for the agility team and also means less turns of the bashing team grinding them down if you can&#8217;t turn them over.</p>
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