Long ago, driven by a desire for adventure, the Valkyries of the Norse settlement in Lustria sailed away from their men-folk and founded a colony deep within the estuary of the river Amaxon. Now these ferocious warriors have taken to the Blood Bowl pitch – and Nuffle save those who dare play against them!
Overview:
The Amazon team has one great and apparent advantage over most teams and that is that they all start with the Dodge skill. This gives them some versatility with regards to moving players around as well as making them harder to knock over. They also start with four players who come with the Block and Dodge combination. These four Blitzers also have access to strength skills and can be easily loaded up to become very troublesome for teams to deal with. The rest of the team can also be give Block easily and a whole team of Block and Dodge will most often be standing on their feet after being blocked.
It isn’t all good though and some teams, most notably Dwarfs, who have a lot of Tackle skills can negate your biggest advantage. The players are all fragile with AV7 when they do go down as well. Every player has an average stat line, they aren’t fast, they aren’t agile and they aren’t strong. Though they aren’t slow, weak or terrible at handling the ball either. Whilst all your players do have the Dodge skill, that doesn’t mean it is best to do as many dodges as possible, with AG3 you will soon realise there may be better ways forward with this team.
For beginners they make quite a good team, they aren’t really poor in any one area and with the team being rather cheap overall you can afford quite a few players with skills and have a fair few rerolls as well. They can be fairly forgiving in that respect and as they are harder to knock over than most teams, most of them time they will have players for the coach to utilise. That being said leagues with lots of Dwarf and Chaos Dwarf teams may prove to make Amazons a tricky proposition.
Strengths:
- Everyone has Dodge
- Fairly Cheap Players
- Fairly Cheap Rerolls
Weaknesses:
- Low armour
- Average Stats on Everyone
September 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
I’ve always felt Amazons need something added to them. On paper and the board, I’ve found them to be one of the least effective teams.
I’d really like an experienced Amazon coach to add some thoughts if there is one, I’m not sure what to do with them to get the best of them.
My issues:
-Though they all have dodge, none of them have agi 4. Not even the catchers. This means that principally the dodge just keeps them alive slightly more in early leagues (no tackle), rather than really dramatically increasing maneouvreablitiy or giving them a unique play-style.
-Their movement is ridiculously low for a team that really only has agility going for it. They are comprehensively the slowest low armour team and are slower than NORMAL HUMANS who have considerably better survivability. Which is incomprehensible to me.
-Each of their players can be compared unfavourably with the normal human team….without considering the humans getting a big guy and two extra catchers. And I mean seriously unfavourably:
Thrower trades reduced armour and sure hands for dodge
Blitzer trades a movement and an armour value for dodge
Catcher breaks the closest to even, trading only 2 movement for one strength, most would consider this, particularly for the position and role, a fairly poor trade. And you only get two of them anyway.
and for these trade-offs, they seem to gain…nothing. They have no unique positional players to lend flavour or unusual potential tactics, no particular strength and yet have more of the weaknesses that plague an elf team than even the elves themselves.
Their only saving grace is how cheap they are, which allows them to at least attempt to be competitive in an early or short league.
Unfortunately in any league that goes on more than a few games they, in my experience, rapidly find themselves decimated by teams that simply have access to better players.
As an example, after one level up a high elf blitzer will have a 30K higher team value than a Basic amazon blitzer but will have the same skills plus one more movement, agility and armour… If the amazon blitzer gains +1AG that would leave them at the same team value and 1MA and 1AV behind…
You can do the same example with all of their players.
Now, if they had a unique player class, perhaps a warrior princess (if thats not too cliche’d) who could give the team some punch or possibly some staying power…or hell even some agility…
Then I could see them being at least serviceable. But as they currently stand I’m yet to see a decent amazon team.
September 25th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Amazons are one of the best teams, especially early on (though they lose some benefits against the two Dwarven teams). It sounds like you are probably not utilising them correctly. They are very much a bashing team and not an agility team, all the Dodge makes them hard to knock over. Blitzers with Block, Dodge, Guard and Stand Firm are a big pain for opposing teams. It is hard to knock their players over and with cheap players and rerolls they don’t often get out numbered. This will obviously be expanded on in the specific articles. Even against Dwarf teams though Amazons hold their own, if you are playing them trying to pass the ball around and doing lots of Dodging, this isn’t the way to play them, they aren’t Elves!
September 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
It’s subtle, but they’re one of the best teams if you know what to expect out of them. Other than Amazons, there are only 3 players in the whole game that start with strength 3 and dodge: Ghoul, Wardancer, and Witch Elf. Ghouls tend to die a lot, because they have no Apoth and no Regen and are big targets. Wardancers and Witch Elves are very expensive.
With one normal skill roll, all your linemen become Block/Dodge players for 70k of value – you can’t beat that deal. And the blitzer is mainly paying for strength access in their cost – so you really can’t do a straight comparison to other positionals. The only players who can get Block/Dodge/Guard/Standfirm on normal rolls is a Vampire. Basically, across the board, the team is starting with the most coveted skill for non-agility players – one that is always a top candidate for double rolls.
October 16th, 2009 at 11:57 am
I concede the point on the block/dodge combo on lineswomen, but I still have yet to see one played in a higher level league (which obviously doesnt stop them performing in tournaments etc) above about 16-1700 team rating they seem (in my experience) to fall apart.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Bear in mind as well, that you can quickly create players who are not only hard to knock down, but that can also escape the oppositions grasp perfectly, A linewoman with Dodge, Side Step, Fend and Block or Wrestle causes hell if the opponent needs her down. A few players with these skill quickly turn into great scorers.
April 11th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
I’m about 10 games into a league with an Amazon team. Although the Amazons lack a player who is a great scoring threat their team is low cost. This gives an advantage in a league situation in terms of inducements. I’ve played games where my team was at a higher stage of development but my opponent’s less developed team didn’t get inducements or could perhaps only induce a babe. I’ve also played teams who are only slightly more developed than my Amazon team, but I’ve been able to induce Roxanna Darknail. I’ve found Roxanna to be a great a star player for the Amazons as she has what the Amazons lack ie pace and agility, and she also has frenzy which opens up crowd surf possibilities.
April 19th, 2010 at 9:37 am
one strategy with amazons is to not bother with blitzers at all, instead starting with around 5 rerolls to make those tricky blocks and skilling up everyone as Dodge/Blocker at first pick. This also can keep your team value artificially low, giving you inducements when you probably shouldn’t.
July 9th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
“Each of their players can be compared unfavourably with the normal human team…”
I would almost say the exact opposite.
The Lineman trades +1 Av for Dodge, a trade I would make any day of the week.
Thrower trades Sure Hands and +1AV for Dodge, again a trade I would make any day of the week as Sure Hands can be gotten with a Normal roll, Dodge is only on a double and Dodge is even more vital as they are usually the ones holding the ball (i.e. ones you do not want knocked over or being stuck to a guy).
+1 Str vs +2 Mv on a catcher is more down to taste IMO but personally I’d rather have the +1 Str. +2 Mv does not make it a sure thing that you will get far enough away not to get hit but +1 Str generally assures that they are getting a 1 dice block against you (unless they double up… And if they do, well good luck to them stopping your march down the field). Even better vs teams with Str 2 players like goblins/skinks who are good at covering humans but just get knocked over by amazons.
Blitzers are almost the same thing as catchers to me, a matter of taste. +1 Mv and +1 AV vs Dodge. Depending on how you value those points it’s not at all hard to say either could come out ahead.
Which just leaves us with the Ogre. Don’t get me wrong I take an Ogre on every human team I field but at the same time I don’t think the lack of one is horrible either, especially given what is IMO a better general team defensively. Ogres deal with Bone-Head, lack of block, lack of mobility (until the get break tackle) and a hefty price tag. Again I don’t thinkt hey aren’t worth the cost but I also don’t think the lack of one is a problem (other then lacking options is just generally worse then having options).
July 22nd, 2010 at 4:15 am
Well, I played my first game of blood bowl as an Amazon team against my friend, who used a Dwarf team. Suffice to say, my team was pretty much destroyed. My dodge skill didn’t work against his team, meaning that I got knocked over a tremendous amount from his blocking dwarves. While he never lost a unit except for fowling me once, my AV of 7 meant that more than half of my units either got knocked out, or injured at some point in the game. All of the average scores on every player meant that I wasn’t good at anything, even trying a pass from my thrower to my catcher resulted in failure more than once.
From my game the amazon team is a team that’s good at nothing. If anyone can tell me exactly how the amazon team can be a basher team against the Dwarves, I’d really like to know.
September 28th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
“From my game the amazon team is a team that’s good at nothing. If anyone can tell me exactly how the amazon team can be a basher team against the Dwarves, I’d really like to know.”
Dwarves are the kryptonite of the Amazon team – so much tackle you cant rely on dodge which is the Amazons best defence.
If your team is developed you can reduce the damage the dwarves can do with Wrestle instead of Block (their little stubby legs will slow them down more than you) and fend (a skill any av7 heavy team should be picking up) – These 2 skills can make Linewomen a really big pain for any bashy team
September 28th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best thing to have your first game of BB with Amazon against Dwarfs! That said, I once beat up a dwarf team with ‘Zons so bad he conceded on his 7th turn!
October 25th, 2010 at 6:49 am
Been playing BB for the pass 10 years and i think BoBliness right on most counts. I do agree with Coach that amazon is a bashy team. “Amazons are one of the best teams, especially early on (though they lose some benefits against the two Dwarven teams).” With MA 6 and AG3 , anybody that plays a running game with amazon is wasting their time.
Well to be honest though, they are only good at early games, late/mid games wise i have fought several amazon teams with my chaos and orc teams and i realise they get wipe out pretty easily. TV around 1.6-1.9k when most of my team have some tackles and MB btw them, and with a mino holding them down with tentacles and block, Amazons dies like cheap flies. Also i realise that amazon team have big problem against a team with several high str and block(chaos/orc).
Good thing is they are easily replaceble but yeah if u are starting an amazon team then u should consider losing alot players in mid-late games. That is how most of the players survive in my league. People can say that they are one of the strongest team in early games, but well unless ur playing a mini league with just a couple of players then be prepared to replace your players alot unless ur league doesnt have players like me
April 6th, 2011 at 7:46 am
I think Amazons are a srong team, and there catchers and blitzers are some of the best in the game. Unfortunately, they get devestated by certain matchups. Dwarves vs. Amazons usually ends in amazons getting crushed like a beer can against a jock’s forehead. Really any team that has picked up 4 or more tacklers has a strong edge on amazons.
This is why I don’t like Tackle. Making skills that nerf other peoples skills is just crap in my opinion. I really feel like its a shame that the game developers haven’t addressed the Dawrf/amazon problem. Its just poor game balance to have one team so severely outgunned by another.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
When talking about whether one teams players are better than another, two things have to be taken into account. First, if the team is cheaper overall than another team, then you can’t compare a player from the more expensive team with one skill, versus a player from the less expensive team with one skill. This is because its highly unlikely that the expensive team was able to start with its full roster of position players. With Dark Elves, for example, it’s not unusual to have to start with no more than 1 Blitzer, and to not have all 4 available for some time. Or alternately, if decide to get Blitzers, to not be able to start with the all important Witch Elves. As a result, your position players are likely to be playing catch up versus the position players from a cheaper team. Secondly, you have to keep in mind that for the most part a team is happy to have a player as a role player. No other team has players as well rounded as the Elves, but comparing how well rounded a player is against another player doesn’t give us the more important perspective of how well rounded the team is compared to another team. Seriously, the Skaven are NOT strictly inferior to the Wood Elves. What the Amazon has that many teams do not, is the ability to be pretty well rounded right from the start. The Amazon team in the long run isn’t really interested in AG4 Blitzers, because it has plenty of choices for ball handlers and really a team only needs a couple ball handlers. What the Amazon Team has that the Elves do not is immediate access to important strength skills like Mighty Blow and Gaurd that Elves must rely on getting on doubles.
Amazon teams have some of the highest win percentages of tracked teams but can be tricky to play. I don’t agree that this is a good newb team. In my experience, their defence is solid. They don’t go down easily and can create separation easily. With Blizters utlizing Gaurd+Dodge, they can pick and win their battles and form lines that opponents will find very difficult to break. You’ll often get 4-5 Pows for every one your opponent gets as the opponent will try to mark you to force dodges and push you back, which more than makes up the difference in your low AV. If they have’t invested at least some in Tackle, they will be very frustrated. While they don’t take advantage of turnovers as well as Skaven or Elves, they have decent ball mobility and can usually get their position player on to a loose ball.
Offense though is harder. Lacking either strength or speed, you’ll have difficulty driving with the ball. Like speed teams, your cage will get crushed within 3-4 turns, but unlike speed teams you need those 3rd and 4th turns to drive deeply enough to be in scoring position. More so than any other team I’ve played, I find the Amazon rely on a short passing game to advance the ball near the end of a drive and often as not, I’m throwing with the Amazon team while on the defense’s half of the pitch. I don’t do that regularly with any other team, but with the Amazon’s it happens often enough that you must consider it a designed play and prepare for the option. This means your catchers probably need Nerves of Steel and your Thrower demands Accurate even though you aren’t really a passing team.
Amazon have favorable matchups with low skill teams, including in my opinion undead, most elf and most high strength bashing teams like Chaos. They have unfavorable matchups with high skill teams like obviously Dwarf, but less obviously their Norse counterparts (and other Amazons!) because high skill blockers can more easily afford to take Tackle as second or even first skill. This is one of the more extreme matchup problems in bloodbowl, but hardly the only one. Low AV elf teams like Pro and Wooed also don’t look forward to playing against Dwarves, and indeed many strong teams have their worst matchup against Dwarves. And some matchup problems are less obvious. Orcs for example are one of the best teams in the game, but have a less than obvious but real matchup problem with Halflings which is one of the worst teams. It’s not enough that Halflings are actually favored assuming equally skilled coaches but its enough that you’d expected out of 10 games halflings to win 1 more than they would against other teams.
If the Amazon need anything, and I’m not sure that its clear that they do, its access to a big guy. Like the Skaven, at higher TR’s it can feel like you really need an overly lucky break to stop a well run cage. At some point for the Skaven it becomes necessary to bring in a Rat Ogre specificly for putting pressure on a cage. However, Amazon’s already have favorable win percentages against many of the top teams and a big guy probably wouldn’t help in the matchup that is the hardest for them.