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Test #010: Beating Claw

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Hello, and welcome to Elf Take!  The show that puts you in the shoes of coaches involved in real-game scenarios!  Calling all dwarf coaches!  Today, we’re looking at high TV dwarf vs. chaos action.  As you vets know, Chaos teams at high TV become sharpened can openers that make other bash teams look like they’re suited in tissue paper.

Here’s the scenario…

Blood, Sweat, and Beers (Dwarf) vs. Terrors of Tarantino (Chaos)

Match

We’re back at the Old World Football League and you’re up against the aptly named Terrors of Tarantino, an unapologetic team most responsible for coaches quitting!   You didn’t have a great week before and are coming into this game missing a deathroller and a troll slayer, plus you just watched the Terrors of Tarantino and the Phoenix Kings battle in an epic match drenched in the blood of elves.

Your game plan is simple, you want to snipe away at the Chaos team as quickly as possible before their Mighty Blow, Piling On, and Claw players start accruing the casualties on your team.  For this you hired star players Flint Churnblade (Loner, Block, Chainsaw, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull) and Boomer Eziasson (Loner, Accurate, Block, Bombardier, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull) to eliminate some of his CPOMBERS (players with Claw, Piling On, and Mighty Blow).

Your first 2 turns have been great!  You were able to badly hurt a rookie beastman and you knocked out a STR+ Chaos Warrior.  Gym-bo has turned up the pressure by marking your ball carrier and he has also injured your Troll Slayer.

You need to deal some damage quickly.  You can feel Gym-bo’s iron fist closing and you need to make something happen so you can successfully stall the half, score, and hopefully injure as many Chaos players as possible.  Gym-bo has left a vulnerable Chaos Warrior begging to be pushed off the pitch.  What’s the best way to proceed?  Do you advance to the right?  Do you move your ball carrier to the center of the field?  Do you reform your cage in the vicinity of the ball carrier, but focus on crowd surfing the Chaos Warrior?

I was sitting two feet from my big screen eating my popcorn.  This moment was the turning point in the game.  The dwarf coach did not capitalize on Gym-bo’s mistake and for the next 5 turns, Gym-bo shredded away eventually scoring… leaving the living room floor littered with popcorn and my neighbors shocked by the profanity laden shouting.

What would you have done?

Objective
  • Form a screen or cage around the ball carrier so he cannot be directly blitzed without multiple high risk rolls.
  • Minimize the amount of blocks the Terrors will have the following turn.
  • Extra Credit: Crowd surf Chaos Warrior #4 (Mighty Blow, Claw, Block, Tackle)
Rules
  • You have 1 team reroll.
  • All 2+ rolls succeed but should be minimized.  Using 3 2+ rolls in your solution requires the use of a reroll.  Any 2+ roll after that will fail and lead to a turnover.
  • All 3+, 4+, 5+ rolls will fail regardless of reroll (note that you have a loner).
  • Chainsaw will not break armor when blocking, but it will not fail either.  Still include it in your solution either as a block / foul.  The 2+ roll still counts towards the 3 2+ rule specified above.
  • Any 3D blocks are defender down.
  • All 2D blocks are pushes, but you can use your team reroll to make it defender down.  (Meaning you only get one)
  • 1D blocks are skull but you can use your team reroll to make it both down.  (Meaning you only get one, but this should be avoided).
  • -2D and -3D blocks are skulls regardless of rerolls.

 

You're the dwarf coach.  What movements and actions give you the highest probability of hurting your opponent and limiting your own injuries the following turn.

You’re the dwarf coach. What movements and actions give you the highest probability of hurting your opponent and limiting your own injuries the following turn.

You're the dwarf coach.  What movements and actions give you the highest probability of hurting your opponent and limiting your own injuries the following turn.

You’re the dwarf coach. What movements and actions give you the highest probability of hurting your opponent and limiting your own injuries the following turn.

Rosters

Blood, Sweat, and Beers (Dwarf)

#PositionMVSTRAGIAVSkills
1Blocker4329Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Loner
2Blocker4329Block, Thick Skull, Tackle
3 (Reserves)Blocker4329Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Loner
4Blitzer5339Thick Skull, Block, Mighty Blow, Guard, Tackle
5Blitzer5338Thick Skull, Block, Mighty Blow, Guard, Strip Ball
6 (Prone)Blocker4329Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard, Mighty Blow, Dauntless
7Blocker4329Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Loner
8Runner6338Sure Hands, Thick Skull
9Blocker4329Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard, Kick
10Starplayer5328Loner, Block, Chainsaw, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull
11 (Reserves)Starplayer4329Loner, Accurate, Block, Bombardier, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull
12 (Badly Hurt)TrollSlayer5328Block Thick Skull, Dauntless, Frenzy, Strip Ball, Mighty Blow, Piling On, Pro
13Blocker4429Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, STR+, Mighty Blow, Guard, Stand Firm, Break Tackle

Terrors of Tarantino (Chaos)

#PositionMVSTRAGIAVSkills
1Minotaur5628Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Tentacles, Claw, Stand Firm, Horns, Frenzy, STR+, Break Tackle
2 (KO'd)Chaos Warrior5539Block, Mighty Blow, STR+, Extra Arms
4Chaos Warrior5439Mighty Blow, Block, Claw
5Chaos Warrior4439Mighty Blow, Block, Piling On, Claw, Tackle
6Chaos Warrior5539STR+, Guard, Block, Tentacles
7Beastman6338Horns
8 (Badly Hurt)Beastman6338Horns
9Beastman5337Horns, Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling On, Claw
13Beastman6338Guard
15Beastman6348AGI+, Block, Strong Arm
16Beastman6438STR+

View Skip's Solution

First let me justify the rules, please just understand that the vast number of permutations of this problem will make it VERY DIFFICULT to compare and contrast between the various scenarios.  There are just too many what if’s.  Out of all the 2D blocks you make 55% will end up as a defender down or defender stumbles.  The rules I setup actually make it more difficult on you, but I would like to set it up as the typical “Nuffle hates you” type of game.  (That’s why your chainsaw will fail. :))

That being said, this is what I would do.

  1. Stand up Dwarf #6.  He has guard so he will aid in blocks.
  2. Move Dwarf #5 to (M,-3)
  3. Move Dwarf #2 to (L, -3)
  4. Dwarf #1 moves to (J, -2) to mark the Chaos Warrior #5
  5. Okay, now for a Cyanide Blood Bowl Legendary / Chaos Edition Tip!  Our next move we’re going to chain push our men to get a better position.  Dwarf #13, however, has Stand Firm.  If you push a player into him, the Stand Firm skill will activate and no player will move.  You have to turn this skill “off” before doing the chain push action.  Left click  Dwarf #13.  On the bottom right you should see a window with a list of his skills.  Click on the window and a new window will pop up.  From this window you can check / uncheck the skills you want activated for the next player’s turn.  Uncheck Stand Firm.  Proceed with the next step.
  6.  Now’s the fun stuff.  Blitz Chaos Warrior #5 with Dwarf #4 from (J, -1) and follow up.  (Using the rules I specified I would very much hope that this is a knock down.  The solution still works without it, but I definitely would like this Choas Warrior on the ground.  So based on the rules I setup, I would “use the reroll” here.  Please note that in a real game, I would only use the reroll in case of a failure.)  Push Chaos Warrior #5 into your ball carrier #8 at (L, -2).  Push the ball carrier into your STR 4 dwarf #13.  Push Dwarf #13 to (N, -1).
  7. Use Dwarf #8 to block Chaos Warrior #4 to (O, -1).  Follow up.
  8. Use Dwarf #13 to block Chaos Warrior #4 off the pitch!  Don’t follow up.
  9. Use Dwarf #7 to block Beastman #15, don’t follow up.
  10. Use Dwarf #10 to chainsaw Beastman #7.  Hope it does some damage!

Finished setup

Finished setup

We have gotten rid of one of the killers.  Now we only have a killer chaos warrior, killer beastman, and a killer minotaur left.  Hopefully the killer chaos warrior is on the ground (so he has to blitz if he wants to attack, and if he’s still up, he’s surrounded by guard).  This leaves only 1 block from the claw player, which is his blitz.

If Beastman #15 is still up (per the rules, he still is) he has to make 2 3+ dodges as well as 2 gfi’s to attack your ball carrier.  However, if he does this, he puts himself in danger of being surfed to the crowd.  If the Chaos coach is crazy enough to blitz in this manner, he also negates a blitz by one of his CPOMBers.  This is always desired.  🙂

And there you go, one solution to beat claw…. minimize his CPOMBers to 1 hit a turn and continue to target them through blitzes and fouls!

View Tad30s Solution

Here is an interesting solution from one of our viewers.  Rather than go for the crowd surf, Tad30s has decided to concentrate the brunt of his force against the Chaos Warrior #5 and the Beastman #15.   His reasoning is to pin Chaos Warrior #4 to the sideline causing stress for the opponent and forcing him to save the player.  Although I wouldn’t necessarily do this myself, it is still a very valid defense.

Here is Tad30s solution and a screenshot of final positioning.

I hope that it’s not too late for ideas on how to tackle this, as I’ve just started reading those challenges, and this one doesn’t have the answer I’d give. First of all, i will not Surf C4 in the following attempt, i will focus on everything else, and-hopefully-dictate the events of the next turn. Please note, that the sheer amount of coordinates makes it very likely that a typo has occurred somewhere, or that i simply made a silly mistake.

Here goes :

D=Dwarf, C=Chaos

#1. D1 to J-2
#2. D6 Blitz C5, 2+ on Dauntless (1/2), Use Reroll to get Defender Down. Push W5 to J-1. Follow.
#3. D5 to N-3, GFI 2+ (2/2).
#4. D2 to K-2
#5. D7 Blocks C15. Push the Carrier to M-3, Follow.
#6. D8 Blocks C15, 3d. Push D7 back to M1.  Don’t follow up.
#7. D13 Blocks C4, Push to O-3, Follow.
#8. D4 to N-1, so that D13 cannot be blitzed off of the Cwarrior5 who WILL get pushed unless a miracle happens / half of his team committs / 1d block succeeds.
#9. Chainsaw C5. Hope for the best.

The end result is two enemies down, Chaos Warrior #5 chainsawed, and Chaos Warrior #4 in a world of pain with no way out. That’s what i’d go for.. I don’t see the advantages of surfing C4, if we can force Gymmy-Boy to try to save him instead.

What do you think of this solution?  Would you take the surf?

Tad30s solution.  Pin Chaos Warrior #4 and attack 2 other high value targets.

Tad30s solution. Pin Chaos Warrior #4 and attack 2 other high value targets.

 

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17 Responses to Test #010: Beating Claw

  1. yeah-oh March 1, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

    1 moves to K-2
    6 stands up
    7 blocks 15, chainpushes 8 to M-3, not follow
    4 blocks 15, pushes to L-1, not follow
    13 blocks 4, pushes to O-3, follows
    5 moves with GFI to O-5
    8 blitz 4 out the pitch and moves to L-4
    2 moves to H-3
    After that can ry chainsaw and -2d block
    ALL OTHER BLOCKS ARE 2d BLOCKS

    • yeah-oh March 1, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

      *5 moves with GFI to O-4 to assit future blitz

      • Inforthepain March 6, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

        1Y to K-2
        6Y stand up
        7Y 2D block 15W
        15W pushed to L-2
        8Y chainpushed to M-3
        7Y do not follow up
        4Y 2D block 15W
        4Y don’t follow up
        5Y 1GFI to N-4
        13Y 2D Block 4W to O-3
        8Y 2D Blitz 4W
        4W Crowdsurfed
        8Y to M-4
        10Y Chainsaw 5W

        Now can Y2 either go def or on offence

        Def:
        Y2 to H-3
        9Y -2D Block 13W

        or

        Off:
        2Y to E1
        9Y 1D Block 13 reroll

        The “Off” will cost you a reroll but you might get rid of W13 and W6 cant move freely and lock up players the next turn.

        same solution as yeah-oh had but 5Y do 1 less GFI, 8Y positioned diffrent, and if going for the “Off” we get 1 opponent down and 1 locked up

        • Skip Tasteless March 6, 2013 at 6:23 pm #

          The “solution” for this problem is so subjective. I like your strat, but I’m concerned with the CPOMBer (CW #5) who is still standing and who has a free shot at your only Dauntless player left on the pitch. So not only does he get a block, but you can expect a blitz from his other CPOMBER (Beastman #9). I would prefer if the CPOMB blocks were minimized to just 1 per turn.

          • Skip Tasteless March 6, 2013 at 6:31 pm #

            By the way…

            The Terrors killed Dwarf #2, Dwarf #9, and the strength 4 Dwarf #13 during the match O_o !!!

            You can’t give the CPOMBer blocks, he’ll just shred your team. You have to keep him on his heels the whole time and beat him with Guard, Dauntless, a little luck, and great positioning.

  2. Inforthepain March 8, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    I noticed an typo in my last post i wrote “chainssaw W5” but i meant chainsaw W7

    Also i love these small tests, just found Elftake and i must say its great! The “POMBer Snipe!” were a new tactic i havnt seen before. Dont play that many AG-teams but i might apply that tactic with my skaven team.

    If i may i would like a second attempt on this test, figure I could do better.

    2nd attempt:

    6Y stand up
    5Y GFI to N-4
    2Y GFI to M-3
    1Y to K-2
    7Y 2D Block 15W with reroll
    15W fall down in K-1 (ToTs Ballhandler)
    5W chainpushed to J1
    7Y dont followup
    13Y 2D Block 4W to O-3
    8Y Blitz 2d Block 4W (crowdsurfed)
    8Y to N-3 (safe from blitz next turn)
    4Y to N1
    Y10 Chainsaw W5(a CPOMMB)
    Y9 -2D block 13W (~70% to not fall down and ~25% to down 13W)

    This way we get 1 attempt to chainsaw a CPOMB, 16W will have a harder to block Y6,Y7 or Y4. Hopefully will we lock up W6 and we have manage to advance further down the field with the ball. We also downed his Ballhandler.

    This is what could have been done if 7Y wasnt a loner xD All this planing and then realise that the bastered 7Y cant reroll! Hahaha fun though. Dont think i can find a better solution than the first ones.

    • Skip Tasteless March 8, 2013 at 5:35 pm #

      Yea let’s save the reroll for Dwarf #9. Though I don’t think I would make that block. He’s tying up 2 guys. Neither of them have Claw so your AV9 should soak the hits. Even if he gets knocked down, you “wasted” the movement of one of his players.

      If you roll skulls, however, he’s got two guys that can swarm the main battle to the right.

    • Skip Tasteless March 8, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

      Yea, as far as Test #9: POMBer Snipe! is concerned.. I’ve actually gotten a lot of backlash from more veteran coaches saying that it’s still too risky.

      So, take the “advice” with a grain of salt. The reason I posted the challenge, however, was to show some creative usages for certain skill sets. Plus it’s a sweet move :). Your opponent would most likely be thinking, “Wait… did he just do that?”

  3. Cram March 10, 2013 at 10:33 am #

    stand up dwarf6
    move dwarf5 to m-3
    Block (hopefully push) chaos4 with Dwarf13 to o-1 and follow
    move dwarf1 to k-2
    Block (hopefully down) chaos15 with dwarf7
    chainpush chaos5 to i1
    chainsaw chaos 5 with dwarf 10 (hopefully get chaos5 out)
    move dwarf2 to j-1
    move dwarf8 to m-1 if he is free to move or block chaos 15
    blitz chaos4 with dwarf4 moving to n-1 and trying to push chaos 4 off the pitch and move to n1 afterwards
    last one is a 1dice, but 4/6 chance to get him off (higher with rr) and so you have a chance to get rid of 2 claw chaos warriors…

    first time i looked at this kind of board, hope i didn’t miss anything…
    😀

    • Skip Tasteless March 11, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

      There’s a couple of things I like and don’t like about this solution. I like that you’re chainsawing Chaos Warrior #5. It would be better if he were knocked down so you could foul with the chainsaw player at the end of turn. (That way you can get help from other players for the armor break)

      Also, per the rules, you can only reroll a 1D block to a both down. And here’s the reason why I set it like that. Going for a 1d block with a blockless Runner (which is most likely one of the players that can make the hit on Chaos Warrior #4) seems highly risky to me. With a Dwarf blocker, I can understand, but would be uncomfortable taking the risk… if you roll a both down you’re still safe, push+ he’s off the pitch. Rolling a skull, however, not only keeps Chaos Warrior #4 on the pitch, but you give him a free claw and mighty blow armor break roll. With a Runner, it’s worse. If you roll a skull or a both down, not only do you fumble, but you’re now giving the chaos coach a free Claw mighty blow armor break roll on your ball handling player!

      In this case you’re attempting a 1d crowd surf with your very valuable Blitzer #4.

      I think you should go back and optimize the solution for a 2D block to crowd surf. If you can’t see my solution, use Google Chrome. Check out my solution for hints. I’m not saying its the best solution, but it will definitely help in our search for “most optimized”.

      • Cram March 13, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

        Ok, i must admit i didn’t understand everything properly, especially the rules about this.
        🙂

        Despite that i wouldn’t consider fouling with the chainsaw a better move, cause there is a chance you gonna leave the pitch yourself. Fouling is a big deal, but i prefer to do it with expendable players only and this chainsaw should really stay on the pitch for a while.
        😀

        The 2d with the runner you did in your solution is even more risky than a 1d + rr with a blocker, but i understand now that the rules need a different solution than mine.

        I had a completely different approach as i tend to get rid of all claws asap when playing dwarfs vs. chaos.
        🙂

        The 2d crowd push would of course be possible, cause dwarfrunner8 would per rule be free to move after the block from dwarf 7 against chaos 15, i think.
        However he would be in a spot that nobody would like him to be, so i skip that.
        😀

        Well, next time i’ll try to understand the objectives better before posting.
        😉

        • Skip Tasteless March 13, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

          You’ve got the right idea. Take out Claw players ASAP. You’ve got a high probability crowd surf opportunity, though. I would focus my efforts on making that happen.

          I’ve just seen double skulls on a 1d block WAY more than I’ve seen the dreaded rerolled (skull, both down) combo on a 2D block.

          Plus who’s to say you can’t use your reroll on the crowd surf? I stated in the solution that I would only use it in case of a “failure” (both down or skull result).

  4. Tad30s March 19, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

    I hope that it’s not too late for ideas on how to tackle this, as I’ve just started reading those challenges, and this one doesn’t have the answer I’d give. First of all, i will not Surf C4 in the following attempt, i will focus on everything else, and-hopefully-dictate the events of the next turn. Please note, that the sheer amount of coordinates makes it very likely that a typo has occurred somewhere, or that i simply made a silly mistake.

    Here goes :

    D=Dwarf, C=Chaos

    #1. D1 to J-2
    #2. D6 Blitz C5, 2+ on Dauntless (1/2), Use Reroll to get Defender Down. Push W5 to J-1. Follow.
    #3. D5 to N-3, GFI 2+ (2/2).
    #4. D2 to K-2
    #5. D7 Blocks C15. Push the Carrier to M-3, Follow.
    #6. D8 Blocks C15, 3d. Push D7 back to M1. Follow, or don’t, I would. You could push D7 to K1 for another assist on the chainsaw, but i’d rather have C16 tied.
    #7. D13 Blocks C4, Push to O-3, Follow.
    #8. D4 to.. Many different possibilities. Either Get to E1 so that C13 cannot block you with good dice, without someone else moving in to assist (Mino with Wild Animal, C16 or C9). He can also block with C6, but this will mean, that unless he blitzes, the tentacles are away from your position.
    You can also move D4 to I-1 or I-2 for another assist on the next step.
    I, however, would get him to N-1, So that D13 cannot be blitzed off of the Cwarrior5 who WILL get pushed unless a miracle happens / half of his team committs / 1d block succeeds.
    #9. Chainsaw C5. Hope for the best.

    The end result is two enemies down, C4 in a world of pain with no way out, Carrier blitzable, but only on negative dice. That’s what i’d go for.. However :

    Alternatively, if the focus is to minimize the damage :
    #3. D5 moves to M-3 instead of N-3.
    #6. D8 Blocking C15 will push D7 to K1.
    #7. D13 pushes C4, the same way, but does not follow.
    #9. Chainsaw with all the assists in the world, and the automatic 2+ success.

    This eliminates all Claw blocks, except for a blitz. Hell, this removes all but two blocks, one of which is on the Chainsaw merc, who just murdered the C5 killer. Your carrier -can- get blitzed, on negative dice. Here, however, the positioning of D4 will dictate the move of Chaos.

    I don’t see the advantages of surfing C4, if we can force Gymmy-Boy to try to save him instead.
    The only way he could get 2d on D13, is for us to NOT move D4 to N-1, then he’d have to blitz D7 with C16, not follow, and use both C16 and C9 to assist on D13. C4 doesn’t have Claw, though, and we’d have both of their killers next to the side line. Not to mention the entire right flank completely open.

    • Tad30s March 19, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

      Come to think of it, D2 could move to E1 instead of K-2, since we already have enough support for a 3d with our Carrier (unless my eyes deceive me). Meaning that D4 can move to N-1. This completely shuts down C13 AND protects D13 from being blitzed, to free C4.

      This wasn’t my first thought, though, so i’m just adding it post-event.

      • Skip Tasteless March 19, 2013 at 6:43 pm #

        Interesting, let me take a look at this… I’m busy at work trying to get ready for my vacation, so if I drop off the face of the world don’t think I’m ignoring you. Other readers, feel free to comment.

        • Tad30s April 15, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

          I just returned from my own, so ’tis not a problem. We ain’t limited by 4 minute turns, after all.

          • Skip Tasteless April 18, 2013 at 5:03 pm #

            Tad30s, I wouldn’t follow up with the ball carrier because he could get blitzed, I will have the defensive formation uploaded shortly.

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