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Test #014: Ultimate 1-Turn Defense?

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Hello sports fans!

It’s your host Skip Tasteless with another episode of Elf Take!  In this episode we’re going to take a peek at a long standing rivalry in the OFL, coach Mardaed vs. coach Lazarus.  In this game (replay available here: www.oldworldfootball.com -> Schedule -> Season 14, Week 9) Lazarus has just executed an 8 turn stall with his Chaos team Snap, Crackle, and Pop.  Mardaed is attempting to pull off a 1-turn TD but he’s shocked to find that his buddy Lazarus has been studying up on 1-turn scenarios.  He has setup his defense in an almost impenetrable line.  Here’s your chance to help Mardaed out.  How do you score the TD?

How do you get through this?

You’re the High Elf coach.  How do you get through this for the score?

Use the coordinate system to describe your solution.

Use the coordinate system to describe your solution.

Objective

  • Find the most probable solution to score a TD.
  • You have 1 team reroll.
  • You have 11 men (look at roster below)
  • Note: You have a AGI5 leaping blitzer.
  • Note: You have a Dauntless blitzer .
  • Note: You have an AGI5 Side step catcher.
  • Note: You have a Guard lineman.

Bonus Objectives

  • Can you do it without leap?

Rosters

Snap, Crackle, and Pop (Chaos) - (in order of picture)

#PositionMVSTRAGIAVSkills
12Beastman6338Horns, Dodge, Tackle, Wrestle
3Chaos Warrior5439Mighty Blow, Block, Guard
16Beastman6438STR+
11Beastman6338Kick
10Beastman6338Horns
6Minotaur5528Thick Skull, Horns, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Loner, Wild Animal
9Beastman6338Horns
7Beastman6348Horns, AGI+, Block, Strong Arm, Sure Hands, Kick-Off return
5Chaos Warrior5438Block, Dodge
14Beastman6338Horns, Mighty Blow, Block, Piling On, Tackle, Claw
4Chaos Warrior5438Dodge, Block, Guard

Phoenix Kings (High Elf)

PositionMVSTRAGIAVSkills
1Blitzer7348Block, Dodge, Mighty Blow, Dauntless, Jump Up, Pro, Sidestep, Tackle
2Blitzer7358Block, Strip Ball, +AGI, Dodge, Leap
3Lineman6348Loner
4Catcher8357Catch, +AGI, Block, Dodge, Side Step
5Lineman6348Block
6Catcher9347Catch
8Lineman6348Block, Guard
9Thrower6348Pass, Safe Throw, Accurate, Dodge, Block, Strong Arm
14Lineman6348
15Lineman6348
16Lineman6348Kick

 

View Skip's Solution

 

Step 1: Leap into empty spot (H2) with Leap Blitzer.

Step 1: Leap into empty spot (H2) with Leap Blitzer.

Step 2: Throw block (2D) on Beastman #9 to chain-surf Minotaur into your Side Step Catcher (I1 to H1 to G-1 to F1)

Step 2: Throw block (2D) on Beastman #9 to chain-surf Minotaur into your Side Step Catcher (I1 to H1 to G-1 to F1)

Step 3: Move lineman from E-1 to E1 to fill a gap.

Step 3: Move lineman from E-1 to E1 to fill a gap.

Step 4: TURN OFF SIDESTEP FOR CATCHER!!!! (CYANIDE) Throw block (2D) on Minoutar into your Side Step Catcher (H-2 to G-1 to F1 to E2 to E3)

Step 4: TURN OFF SIDESTEP FOR CATCHER!!!! (CYANIDE) Throw block (2D) on Minoutar into your Side Step Catcher (H-2 to G-1 to F1 to E2 to E3)

Step 5: Position Lineman at D1 to help against interception roll (if necessary).  Note: If the Beastman at H1 is on his feet, you have a shot there.  We're assuming not, so we're prepping to blitz Beastman at D2.

Step 5: Position Lineman at D1 to help against interception roll (if necessary). Note: If the Beastman at H1 is on his feet, you have a shot there. We’re assuming not, so we’re prepping to blitz Beastman at D2.

Step 6: Blitz Blodge Beastman with at D2 Tackle Blitzer and hope he gets knocked down for easier catch and dodge. (C2 to D2 to E2 to D3)

Step 6: Blitz Blodge Beastman with at D2 Tackle Blitzer and hope he gets knocked down for easier catch and dodge. (C2 to D2 to E2 to D3)

Step 7: Pick up the ball and throw it to Side Step catcher!  Dodge out and score!

Step 7: Pick up the ball and throw it to Side Step catcher!  Dodge out and score!

 

Worst-case scenario: 2+ Leap, 3 2D Blocks(Push, D-Stumbles, D-Down), 2+ Pick up, 2+ Pass(/wPass), 3+ Catch(/wCatch), 2+ Dodge(/w no Dodge), 2 GFIs

Without team-reroll: 24.392%

With team-reroll: 52.85%

 

Best-case scenario: 2+ Leap, 3 2D Blocks(Push, D-Stumbles, D-Down), 2+ Pick up, 2+ Pass(/wPass), 2+ Catch(/wCatch), 2+ Dodge(/wDodge), 2 GFIs

Without team-reroll: 31.125%

With team-reroll: 62.251%

 

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14 Responses to Test #014: Ultimate 1-Turn Defense?

  1. CariadocThorne April 30, 2015 at 8:33 pm #

    Catcher 6 in k-3
    Catcher 4 in j-1
    Blitzer 1 in n-1
    Blitzer 2 in i-2
    Lineman 8 in k-1
    Lineman 3 in h-1
    Lineman 5 in L-1
    Linemen 14 in i-1
    Linemen 15 and 16 in j-2 and k-2

    Thrower 9 retrieves the ball and passes to Catcher 4 who catches on 2+ with catch reroll.
    Lineman 8 moves to j1, negating assists from beastmen 7 & 9, and warrior 5, and assisting against any of them.
    Catcher 6 moves to L1
    Lineman 16 moves to k-1
    Blitzer 1 moves to i3, dodging out of m3 on 2+ with dodge reroll on the way, makes a go for it and blitzes beastman 7 on 2d, pushing him into beastman 9, who is chain pushed into catcher 4, who uses sidestep to be pushed into k1.
    Blitzer 2 blocks beastman 9 on 2d, pushing him into Catcher 4 who is pushed into beastman 14 who is pushed back to j3
    Lineman 5 blocks beastman 9 on 2d, pushing him into catcher 4, who is pushed into L3.
    Catcher 4 dodges to L4 on 2+ with dodge reroll, then runs 8 and goes for it twice to score.

    2x 2+dodge with reroll, 3x GFI, 3x2d blocks, all with block skill ad the first also with pro, a 2+ catch with reroll, a 2+ pickup and a 2+ or 3+ pass with reroll (depending where the ball landed from kickoff).

    • Skip Tasteless April 30, 2015 at 10:50 pm #

      Nice Solution, I like the 2+ pass and catch at the beginning because you eliminate any tackle zone problems.

      However, I don’t like the GFI and dodge you have to take with the blitzer. (However, I would prefer a dodge /w dodge skill over a 2+ leap).

      Can you come up with a solution where you don’t depend on a push result or a gfi from the blitzer?

      Based on Samba Action Calculator:
      Without team-reroll: 18.913%
      With team-reroll: 44.13%

      You can do better!

      • CariadocThorne May 1, 2015 at 9:11 am #

        Well the blitz doesn’t need to be a push, defender down or stumble are fine, but the first block does need to be a push, so switching blitzers around would put the pro on the block which needs to be a push Which should be a small improvement.

        Alternately, based on crimsonsun’s video, start catcher 6 in n-1, move guard lineman to j1, other linemen to k1,L1,m1, L-1,m-1, leap blizer moves to m-2, catcher 4 to n-2. Pro blitzer runs around to j3 moving 6 with a 2+ reroll dodge from m3 to L4, blitzes beastman 14 to L1, pushing lineman to m-1, pushing that lineman to n-1, pushing the catcher to o1. Give him the ball and yell “Run Forest, run”.

        1x 2+ reroll dodge, 1x 2d block, with block and pro, needing push, stumble or down, 2+ pickup, 2+ or 3+ pass ( or hand off if the ball landed close enough), 2+ reroll catch, 3x GFI.
        You could change it slightly to block the beastman a second time and need one less GFI, but then you need him to stay on his feet after the blitz.

        Could also remove the dodge, but it makes it a 1d block, or requires a dauntless roll with no skill reroll.

        That solution is based on crimsonsuns video.

  2. crimsonsun May 1, 2015 at 12:06 am #

    Something like this would do it… https://youtu.be/20uGqNK3hoY

    • Skip Tasteless May 1, 2015 at 5:53 am #

      Nice Video. That would work if the catcher has MV and sprint.

      • crimsonsun May 1, 2015 at 7:55 am #

        Lol I do realise its not a direct tactical match but it just looked pretty close in terms of the situation. In honesty I feel that the video is a more taxing situation due to the Stand Firm and str7 with guard on either side on the los making it entirely beyond any reasonable use in generating the 1ttd.

        • Skip Tasteless May 1, 2015 at 6:24 pm #

          Well, you only have 2 minutes to recognize a pattern. The more patterns memorized, the better! So yea, it’s still helpful.

  3. Street May 2, 2015 at 1:14 pm #

    Player starting points (That matter)
    Bltizer 1 in N-1
    Blitzer 2 in H-1
    Catcher 4 in G-1
    Catcher 6 in G-2
    Linemen 5 in H-2
    linemen 14 in I-1
    linemen 15 in E-1

    Players that move (With no rolls made)
    Linemen 3 to E1
    Linemen 8 to J1
    Linemen 16 to K1

    First action (Can’t see a better time or better way to make this roll) is to get ball to catcher 4. (2+ pick up, 2+ throw, 3+ catch as in 2 TZs, with a catch reroll)

    Blitzer with blitzer 1 so that he runs with all 7 movement to J3, hitting chaos warrior 5 in J2 (Requires 1 dodge with dodge reroll through M3, no GFI)

    If dauntless roll passes, 2 dice block where any result that isn’t skull / bothdown is needed.

    Push CW5 to I1 (Beastman 9) who then chain pushes to H-1 (Elf Blitzer 2), who then chain pushes into G-1 (Catcher 4) who is chainpushed into F1.

    Next, block beastman 9 with linemen 5, has 1 assist from catcher 6 for 2 dice block, any result other than bothdown/skull is needed. Push beastman 9 from H-1 to G1, this chainpushes beastman 10 F1, which chainpushes catcher 4 to E2, which chainpushes CW3 to E3.

    Then block with blitzer 2 (Now in G-1) vs beastman 10 (Now in F1) (2 dice block thanks to assist from linemen 15), any result works, pushes beastman 10 into E2, which pushes catcher 4 into F3 (By using sidestep).

    Dodge 2+ out with catcher 4 to G4 (with dodge reroll) and 2 (2x 2+) GFI to score.

    Hopefully haven’t screwed up any of this in my head. Worst thing is the 3+ catch, there is prob a way to tweak a similar method I have done to get a 2+ catch, but hey made it so everyblock can be a pow or stumble as well as push and still work. Don’t know what this relates to in a % chance but I am just glad to have found a solution, unless I made a huge mistake somewhere.

    • Street May 2, 2015 at 1:17 pm #

      Oh yea, part of this assumes that a sidestep player who is pushed (Or chainpushed) can sidestep themselves into one of the 3 squares behind them if they are all occupied and chainpush the player in that square. (As I believe it works like that)

      If it doesn’t and you need to surrounder every square then my method needs tweaking.

      • Skip Tasteless May 2, 2015 at 5:23 pm #

        You have to turn off side step (if you’re playing cyanide version). Then it won’t automatically make you move to an empty spot. In fumbbl client, it will ask you if you want to turn of side step.

        This is a good solution. It’s the same probability as my solution except you can reroll the dauntless roll with pro. What do you do then? Use the team reroll?.

        Good job!

        • Street May 2, 2015 at 5:42 pm #

          If I had to reroll dauntless, I would use pro, and not use a team reroll if the pro failed.

          If the dauntless fails you still have a 1 dice block where 2/3 results get you what you need, and you can use the teamreroll on that block if needed.

          Interested to see what other solutions there are if mine was the same probability as yours, I do love chainpushing puzzles though.

          I would never come up with that solution in the few minutes you get in a Cyanide game.

  4. SirSebstar May 8, 2015 at 7:10 pm #

    Woot a new case. Fist off I want to say that this setup truly invites a succesfull 1 turn TD. The trick to setting up a defense against OTT’s(one turn touchdown) is one I have already writen a piece about.
    In the premier analysis, it is clear its a dounting prospect. MA 8 needs to travel 13 paces with no sprint. So it needs to be pushed at least 3 times(and GFI twice). Luckely sidestep makes a usefull difference. Kick is bothersome but not fatal.
    case 14

    There are multiple ways to make this OTT work. I am making a plan that assumes that most things wont work perfectly.
    Setup
    #2 Blitzer (Leap) @ E-1 (but can be placed everywhere.
    #5 Limeman (Block) @ F-1
    #8 Lineman (Block+ Guard) @ H-1
    #4 Catcher (Sidestepper) @ I-1
    #3 Lineman (Loner) @ H-2
    #14,15,16 Lineman @ J-1, K-1 and L-1 respectivly
    #6 Catcher @ I-2 (needs to assist again later) # 1 Blitzer (Tackle) @ J-2
    #9 Thrower placed somewhere deep in on the H line, can always reach the ball.

    Many people start their play on the right side, you can use that to your advantage when setting up for defense.

    Blitzer with leap on K-1. leap 2+ to H2.(Fails on 1/6) Block with LM #5 with assist from the guarder. For all blocks but the last everything but a skull or bothdown result is good = 8/9 succes vs 1/9 failure potentionally with teamreroll.
    The push will go into the mino and mino will push into sidestepper(who will be pushed over the line).
    Lineman # 15 on the side will move across the LOS next to the sidestepper.
    The block guard lineman #8 will block the Mino with 3 assists into the sidestepper. (works on all tools.)The sidestepper pushes into #14 on K2 (and moves #14 to K3 straight back).
    Now you will have freed up several players Move two to assist on #4 but leave spot M2 free, there your Blitzer #1 (Tackle) Blitzes to on #4. 2 dice with tackle. If this fails( Bothdown/skull), you can move the last free lineman next to the Mino for a 1die block without block by #14 for the line push 4/6 chance.

    The odds are basicly the same, but if one fails you still have more options.

    Now the pickup pass catch. The dodge ad GFI x2.
    Major advantage, you can fail somewhere and still make it. Also you will not have to dodge from a tackle player (if it should remain standing) Every reroll available is usefull.

    • SirSebstar May 8, 2015 at 7:12 pm #

      Addendum, there are more options, but i wanted one where you can make it inside 3 minutes, regardless of system (so no on off skills as some older cyanide dont provide this option effectivly) And with as few dicerolls as possible (so no use for dauntless)

  5. Alzam June 4, 2015 at 12:29 am #

    I know this post is like 1 month old, but I fond it like 30min ago, and I may have a different answer that’s not too bad (and I don’t use leap or dauntless), so I’m gonna post it anyway, and hope someone is gonna see it.

    So, for starting point (from left to right):
    #6 : D-1
    #2 (Leap) : E-1
    #3 (loner) : E-2
    #5 (block) : F-1
    #14 : F-2
    #4 (Catcher-TD) : G-1
    #15 : G-2
    #8 (Guard) : H-1
    #1 (Dauntless) : H-2
    #16 : J-1

    Move #6 to E1, block with #5 on the beastman in G1 (#10) (2D thanks to guard) and follow. If both down, use leap to go in H2. Move #3 where #5 was standing (F-1) or where the blitzer leap was standing (E-1) if you had to leap.

    #4 is now in 1TZ, so time for passing.

    Block with #16 on the beastman in I1 (2D thanks to guard), push on the mino, push on #4 and use side-step to go on F1. Block with the blitzer dauntless on the mino (no need for dauntless, but you may want to use pro), push on #4, push on the warrior in E2 (#3), push him back in E3.

    Now, go on C1 with #15 for assist, blitz the beastman in D2 (#12) with #14 (go to C2), push on #4, and go for it ! You may not be able to use dodge if the beastman #12 is still standing. It’s maybe possible to do one more push, but I don’t see how.

    So, that’s 4*2D (1 pro, 1 good with both down) and 6*2+ (2 free reroll, 3 if #12 is not standing, 7* if leap). You can do this without using leap and dauntless.The odds stay basically the same (it’s a little better for me, 65% best-case and 57% worst-case), but I don’t use leap, so I do have bonus points 🙂 . You could even do this without blitz! (you are gonna need to block the mino or #9 two times, and change some positions).

    As I said earlier, I find this test by luck, and I’m really glad I do, really nice work 🙂

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