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Dark Elf Assassins

Blood Bowl Dark Elf Assassin
Dark Elf Assassin Overview:

The Dark Elf Assassin offer a new and unique player type to the Dark Elf team which sets them apart even more from the other Elven races. They are low armour but come with the Stab skill, though aren’t hindered by the Secret Weapon ability of getting sent off after a drive. Their low armour and no preservation skills can mean they are targetted by the opposition as an easier target to remove from the pitch. Coupled with the fact that the threat Stab can offer, don’t be surprised if they are taking a lot of hits. Though this can mean they are taking attention away from your other, perhaps more dangerous players. As a lot of coaches haven’t faced Assassins yet, they may be overly fearful of them as well.

Due to the way Stab works they are of most use against low armour players, especially ones with Block and Dodge who are harder to knock over by blocking. Using Stab does mean that you need to be standing next to at least one opponent though (unless you want to use your blitz with them), which can mean they are open to getting hit back if their Stab attack fails.

Shadowing can mean they are a nuisance against the slower higher armoured teams where Stab is less effective. Use him to exert tackle zones in an area where their ball carrier is likely to have to run through, the average movement of the Assassin should be enough vs these teams for Shadowing to cause problems.

So given the two starting skills, you can develop Assassins to make the most of one or the other of these. Assassins will probably skill up slowly though as Stab doesn’t gain any SPP and their average movement and way they tend to be used on the pitch doesn’t gain SPP quickly. So chances are they will probably get killed or injured before developing a great deal.

Stabbing Assassins:

As mentioned Assassins are fragile, so taking a skill to help them survive early on may be the best course of action, so Block makes a lot of sense. Side Step should also be considered though, these two being the first two skills I would recommend. Side Step will keep you next to targets you want to Stab, as well as minimising the number of Blocks against you. This makes it really useful against opposing receivers who typically have low armour and Side Step keeps you next to them, which would encourage them to risk the dodge away. After that Jump Up will let you still have the threat of stabbing players even if you do get knocked over and saves your blitz more often. Then finally Dodge helps with the protection and keeps them on their feet more.

A double roll at any point and Multiple Block is the obvious choice as you then get to Stab two players a turn if you are standing next to two. This can really churn through the opposing players if they are low armour as well. Stat increases, +AV will help keep them alive longer due to the amount of hits they take, while +ST will make him more useful for blocking purposes when facing higher armour sides and again help with protecting him as well.

Shadowing Assassins:
  • Normal: Diving Tackle, Tackle, (Side Step), Pass Block, Dodge, Jump Up
  • Doubles: Multiple Block/Nerves of Steel
  • Stat Increases: +MV and +AG

This is the alternate build, though may not last as long as has less protection skills. Their usage is different though and rather than being more of an attacking problem, these guys are built for causing turnovers instead. Diving Tackle combines well with Shadowing in tying up receivers, then Tackle makes this even more effective. Pass Block will get you next to the receiver as well and give you a chance to intercept. Then Dodge helps to get to marking a target if you get marked by the opposition as well as finally giving some more protection and if you get this far Jump Up for the same reasons as the Stab build. You may also want to consider Side Step somewhere in the build to prevent being blitzed away from the target you are marking. Though without any protecting skills, an opposing blitz may knock you over anyway, while Pass Block may create a turnover.

Doubles you can go Multiple Block again as outlined above, two stabs a turn can be really nasty against some teams, or if you want to emphasise shutting down a passing option, Nerves of Steel will increase the interception threat. Stat increases, +MV makes you better at Shadowing and lets you cover more of the pitch to chase down receivers, while +AG helps with interceptions and dodging around, especially when using Pass Block.

Dark Elf Assassin Summary:

There are the two ways to build Assassins, though I would suggest there are a player to add the your team after the team has developed already, they are hard to protect and don’t skill up very quickly. Assassins are also fairly expensive players, so combined with their fragile nature, this can be a drain on resources while your team is developing. They can draw a lot of attention though and be a thorn in the side of a lot of opponents.

70 Responses to Dark Elf Assassins

  1. Rybosh July 4, 2009 at 10:12 am #

    Never considered the multiple block trick. Very nice!

  2. Clopin September 3, 2009 at 6:38 pm #

    I offen use them as recivers, if you run 2 assassins toward your opponents end zone he is faced with the option of placing a player next to him and being staped or leave a potential TD threat.

    With Sure Feet and Dodge you got a killer TD scorer

  3. Ramela September 22, 2009 at 8:47 am #

    The biggest benefit of Stab, to me, is the fact that there is no chance of a turnover from a failed Stab. Since failing a stab leaves the assasin open to retaliation, I like to use them on the line of scrimmage in such positions that if they fail their Stab, they are assisting on a block that will push away the stabbed player.
     
    I also like to park Assasins next to prone players, since they have to blitz to avoid getting stabbed.

    • Coach September 22, 2009 at 11:10 am #

      Good idea about leaving them next to prone players and can easily spare them from other duties.

  4. BoBliness September 25, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    First a quick question I’d never considered before:
    Does shadowing ever consider an opponents movement to be less than his base movement? For example when the opponent is pass-blocking (and has effective movement 3) or has stood up? I have always assumed it was never intended to use anything other than base movement.

    Additionally, does anyone else think they toned the assassin down too much? I’d have liked to see him with either higher movement and/or dodge (Hes an assassin…why is he the slowest moving and least agile of their players?) alternatively if you are going to make him slow, presumably to stop shadowing being too powerful, then at least make him a touch more resilient (through dodge or armour)

    • Coach September 25, 2009 at 11:53 am #

      Not really in practice, playtesting has shown them to be fine as they are. Against the low armour teams Stab can really cause some havoc and against the higher armour teams his movement is enough for Shadowing to be effective.

      Shadowing always uses the Movement Stat from the player as well and has nothing to do with how far they have moved or anything else. Pass Block lets you move three squares, it doesn’t give you a Movement of three, you also can’t stand up as a Pass Block action.

  5. BoBliness September 28, 2009 at 11:41 am #

    Fair enough, if the play-testing bares out his effectiveness then thats good enough for me. I’m looking forward to them adding Dark Elves to the cyanide game, its proven hard to find enough real-life players to play with when moving countries all the darn time!

  6. Kowalski October 5, 2009 at 8:15 am #

    Curious as to why Block is suggested before Dodge for protection? The way I see it is: Both are equally good at protecting (1/6 on a block dice), both can be countered (Block with Wrestle, Dodge with Tackle), but Dodge is also useful on your own turn (for mobility, scoring for instance), whereas you would rarely if ever use Block on your own turn.

  7. VoidSeer October 5, 2009 at 9:04 am #

    Assassins will be hunted and most team will have tackle for that purpose. Block will help assassins to stay on the pitch. Besides, they dodge away on a 2+.
    Wrestle does not counter block the way tackle counters dodge (read: no armor nor injury roll).
    The extra mobility provided by dodge may be nice, but I’d go the safe route as coach does. Especially because assassins are slow to build, as they do not score that much and don’t gain SPPs when stabbing.

  8. Coach October 5, 2009 at 10:08 am #

    Block also lets you hit with them instead of stabbing with better success, sometimes you don’t want to Stab, like if you just need a pushback, or if they have high armour. Blocking will also get them SPP which Stab doesn’t and they tend to skill up slowly. Just cause they have Stab don’t forget that they can Block as well.

  9. VoidSeer October 5, 2009 at 11:26 am #

    As a side note. A question may be why not wrestle instead of block?
    My $.02 are that I think that wrestle is a poor combo with shadowing.

  10. Kowalski October 5, 2009 at 3:10 pm #

    Good points, thank you, VoidSeer and Coach.

    Looking forward to reading more about Dark Elves!

  11. Joemanji October 16, 2009 at 5:05 pm #

    An alternative build for Assassins is the psuedo-Wardancer. Take Leap on your first skill and on defence just dive headlong into the opposing cage and Stab the ball carrier. This is more likely to work than you would think, since most team carry the ball with their lowest AV players. Even Orcs and Dwarfs do so with an AV8 player. This ploy has the added bonus that a failed Stab cannot cause a turnover, so if you make the leap roll your Assassin is guaranteed to remain on his feet and be a nuisance in your opponent’s turn with Shadowing.
    The value of this ploy increases vastly in higher TV games. Skills such as Block, Dodge & Guard all negate the effectiveness of the traditional leap + block move, whilst the chances of the leap + Stab attack remains constant. The only thing that can affect it is an AV increase, and most coaches will pass those over in favour of +1 MA on their ball carrier. Against a no-skill ball carrier, this tactic will work 28% of the time vs AV7 and 19% of the time vs AV8. A Wardancer would pass 33% of the time (with no reroll). However, against a player with either Block or Dodge the wardancer goes down to 22%, and with both 11%. If you bring in Guard and the Wardancer has to make a half dice block, then his chances go down to 17%, 7% and 2% against the same degree of skills.
    The obvious weakness of this ploy is that the Assassin is ST3 and AV7, and so very likely to be blocked and hurt if he ends up in the middle of the opposing cage. His typical build should then obviously favour survival skills such as Block and Dodge, followed by nuisance skills such as Side Step and Diving Tackle if he lives long enough.
    In summary this is a highly risky tactic for a 90K player, but one that has its uses and is likely to strike fear into many opponents!

  12. BoBliness October 30, 2009 at 12:36 pm #

    Joe,

    Its a good tactic in a lot of ways, its not much more risky than doing the same with a dancer, sure the dancer is harder for the opposition to put down…but he is worth a LOT more, and when he throws the block, there is also the chance that he will go down on the block, not only is that a turnover, but it leaves him on the ground among the enemy….assuming the fall doesnt take him out anyway!

    I’d say you’ve hit on one of the key uses for the assassin at higher TV.

    Dark elves are short on ways of breaking cages, frenzy isnt a good anti-cage skill 😛

    I’m really looking forward to dark elves in the cyanide game, they’ve got a few fun options….I expect a lot of player death though!

  13. Gantoris November 21, 2009 at 12:09 pm #

    I haven’t played Blood Bowl since i was a kid but have been enjoying the new cyanide game since its release, now that the Dark Elves are out im planning to give them a go.
    My idea for assassins is to make them deep defenders and give them tackle as first sill up, the idea being that if the enemy rushes forward any receivers as wood elves and skaven are prone to do you simply plop your assassins smack bang next to em and it seems to me the Tackle/Shadowing combo could cause them some serious grief and if for any reason they don’t move one ore more of there receivers on there next turn its stabbity stab time on the low AV catcher.
    Any thoughts on this idea?

    • Coach November 21, 2009 at 3:39 pm #

      I wouldn’t recommend it, there is nothing stopping the other team from just blitzing him away and he has no defensive skills like Block or Dodge and even a push back will be more than enough when you don’t have Side Step. A two dice block will have a great chance of knocking the Assassin over and they have low armour so may not be getting up again.

  14. Gantoris November 21, 2009 at 4:50 pm #

    Well obviously my other skill choices would be things such as dodge, block and side step and it wouldnt nessicarially be tackle first this is just my idea for how i want to use them on the pitch and the direction ill try and skill em up. Shadowing + Tackle just seems like an awsome way to piss of catchers, at least in my head anyway. Also does Mighty Blow effect stab in the same way it does the Goblin Chainsaw?
     
    Another idea im having concerns the Witch elves, i know this is the wrong page for that but while im here ill mention it. The builds on this website dont seem to cover the option of Dauntless on a witch elf which seems odd cause i woulda thought gettin Block/dauntless and creating a Ma7 Agi4 Slayer would be pretty awsome.

    • Coach November 21, 2009 at 5:12 pm #

      Tackle can be a good skill for Assassins, I just can’t really see taking it before Block, Dodge and Side Step and you asked about taking it as the first skill which I don’t consider a good idea. Even then Diving Tackle may be better, with only MV6 most receivers won’t get affected by shadowing and the other slower player types it is useful against, like Orc Blitzers, on the whole won’t usually have Dodge.

      Mighty Blow has no effect on Stab or Chainsaws, it says this in the skill description for Mighty Blow in the last line.

      Dauntless is a possibility on Witch Elves and bear in mind that the builds suggested on here are by no means exhaustive. I’m not sure many coaches would take it until the 5th skill as well as its use is a lot more limited and not as useful compared to other options. For skill choices on really developed players skill choices tend to be tailored to what each individual team really needs and this will vary a lot. A lot of leagues will also not run that long and so not even get players that well developed. I’d prefer Dauntless on a Blitzer compared to a Witch Elf as well, they have better armour for withstanding being hit back. Dauntless on Frenzy players can also get you in trouble and I think I’d even give a Lineman Dauntless before a Witch Elf. Why not start a thread on the forum asking about dauntless options for Dark Elves, there is more to discuss with this idea than really fits within these comments.
      Hope that helps and thanks for commenting!

  15. Gantoris November 21, 2009 at 6:06 pm #

    Thanks for the advice, hadnt considered the MA thing which really limits the use i had in mind for assasins which is a shame cause sitting at back and assasinating enemy recivers seemed to fit em nicley. The reason dauntless appeals to me on the Witch Elves so much is i generally play as dwarfs and have a lot of fun with my slayers so im used to using a dauntless/frenzy combo and the idea of havin an agi 4 ma7 slayer runnin around with jump up seems pretty awsome.

    • Coach November 21, 2009 at 6:36 pm #

      I forgot one point I was going to make as well regarding Dauntless on Witch Elves compared to Dwarf teams. Dwarfs will have a lot of players with Guard around making it easier to get the two dice blocks on both the first and the second. This also lessens the risk of failing Dauntless as they will usually have a one die block rather than a two dice against block (not saying the Witch Elf will but it is more likely). With all the Guard and Block on Dwarf teams as well they will have an easier time of knocking other supporting opposing players over/away as well in comparison with Dark Elves.

      The teams don’t play the same way and trying to shoe horn in some tactics from one race into another doesn’t always work. Witch Elves can do lots of other things that Troll Slayers can’t and I’d look to maximise their effectiveness as a Witch Elf as they are one of the best players in the game. Of course that doesn’t mean you can’t do that it is just my personal preference and if you will have more fun doing things your way then I say go for it.

  16. Gantoris November 21, 2009 at 7:43 pm #

    Hmm your right, i thought the blitzers could take str skills but on double checking they cant which limits that idea somewhat unless i get very lucky on re rolls. Still tho, really do need someone effective at bringing down big guys since you dont have them yourself idea was to make the witch elves into big guy killers.
    Are you sure about chainsaw/mighty blow btw?

  17. Lamoron November 22, 2009 at 1:22 am #

    The Leaping Assassin is a great idea. If you manage to roll a double and get multiple block, you can even take out the ball carrier and a corner of the cage at once if you’re lucky, giving you free access to the now loose ball with a lot of luck.

  18. Gantoris November 22, 2009 at 1:37 am #

    Yeh think i gonna go for blodge and leap with multiple block on a double. Gonna stick with the dauntless witch elves tho and hope for some doubles on blitzers to get em guard.

  19. Coach November 22, 2009 at 11:23 am #

    You can only use Multiple Block on a Block action and not on a Blitz, so you can’t leap into a cage and stab both the ball carrier and one of the cage players as well on the same turn.

  20. Thanatos November 23, 2009 at 9:03 am #

    I’ve just started a Dark Elf team on the Cyanide Game. I am really liking the Assassin, just give him Block and throw him on the LOS. If they don’t take him down, they are getting a stabbing! 🙂
    I’ve taken out Ripper Bolgrot and Headsplitter this way (Lucky dice rolls). Goblins, Skvaen and Wood Elves are all ‘pwned’ by the Assassin but you have to leave them on teh subs bench against Dwarfs 🙁

  21. Thanatos November 23, 2009 at 9:05 am #

    p.s. That being said, against Dwarfs the Shadowing skill was very useful. Just stick him in the middle of a number a players, and if he tried to dodge any of them out they won’t get far.
    Admittedly a Human player would never fall for this but the Computer is a bit of a sucker for it.

  22. Gecko November 28, 2009 at 3:50 pm #

    What about using the Stabbing build to solo tie up Big Guys/Mummies ??
    With Block/Dodge/Sidestep, Big Guys have a difficult time taking the Assassin down – no access to General skills means no Tackles and they may even not have Block themselves, on top of general Bonehead/Wild Animal/Stupid failure. Their slow movement mean they can’t escape Shadowing, Break Tackle can only be used once so they can’t really get away from a Shadowing Assassin.
    Each turn the Assassin can attempts a Stab (if he wasn’t down or if he gets Jump Up later), several Big Guys have AV8 so it IS indeed possible to hurt them, and he is actually more likely to succeed by himself than by blocking (unless bringing tons of support to get the 2 dice block, which kind of defeats the purpose of using the Assassin alone to hold the Big Guy).
    IMO it makes more sense to use them like this (the second Assassin being a substitute – with Mighty Blow, sometimes KOs will happen – or when there are 2 Big guys to tie up) than to mark catchers, these are better handled by a straight block from a Block/Tackle Blitzer.

  23. Miyamoto Akira December 1, 2009 at 8:03 am #

    As there are still people replying … My recommendation in this case is: Don’t buy. I can’t see myself getting one before I have my four blitzers (which I take at the beginning anyway) and my two witches. The previous two are useful against any opponent, the assassin is too conditional, and I hate not getting SPP. And you’re talking about their builds once they get experience, but the problem is getting that experience. Blitzers and witches are more useful from the beginning, and the difference on usefulness with the assassins doesn’t decrease as they level up.

  24. Thanatos December 1, 2009 at 12:24 pm #

    It only thats two touchdowns and then you have Block and can throw him on the LOS.
    For some reason I have no problem scoring with my Assassin, probably because he is off hunting Dwarf Runners or whatever and just happens to be nicely placed to running into the end zone.

  25. Gecko December 14, 2009 at 11:11 am #

    I wouldn’t say they are not worth it…
     
    No matter your player’s AV (and even then it’s less serious for AV9 guys), no one likes to give the opponent a free (no turnover) potentially injuring attack. Therefore, the opponent will go out of his way to insure that the Assassin doesn’t start his turn with a TZ on one of his players.
     
    This means either dodging out (dice-roll + shadowing annoyance), bringing in support for a 2d block (= 2 actions spent only on Assassin management), wasting the precious blitz on the Assassin, or attempting a risky 1d block… And this is even more profitable if all this takes place far from the ball, forcing the opponent to spread out.
     
    The real power in Stab is the menace it brings to the field instead of its real efficiency at bringing down people.
     
    If I had the ability to remove my previous comment I would, it was a quite unexperienced advice… The best way to use the Assassin(s) is definitely to mark a remote enemy player.
    Skillwise, you want to rely on really few skills,  you won’t get them fast (although the first one is just 1 MVP + 1 completion away). Your first skill must improve your utility right away, and while Jump Up (if you’re not pushed back in the open – only advantage really being that no one will mark your prone Assassin) and Sidestep (if you don’t get knocked down) maximize the number of Stabs you can do, I really feel that Dodge should be the first skill to get.
    It gives you better positioning (you really only want to mark only one STR3 player, don’t stay in 2 players TZs if you can), better survivability (Assassin still have AV7), and if it forces a Tackle enemy to go out for you it’s one less Tackle to worry about for your other players, especially Witches.
     
    For a second skill, I’d get Wrestle over Block. Same survivability, but gives you the odd chance of getting your attacker prone until opponent’s next turn.
    It could be debated that it doesn’t allow you to still use Shadowing on the player you marked, but this only comes into play if  this guy didn’t do the block and the Assassin got blitzed instead. Even then Shadowing is quite unreliable. Its use is in tricking the opponent into chosing a block action instead of a dodge in the first place, and the action consumption is what you’re really looking for, not a crucial marking (those should be done by your Blodge/Sidestep Blitzers).

  26. Bipolar Bear April 19, 2010 at 5:30 pm #

    I’ve played through 4 championships on the Cyanide game with Dark Elves and I have NEVER scored anything more than a stunned result with Assassins using Stab. Is this just bad luck?

  27. Aval June 15, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    I can offer to use two Assassins as “catchers” when invaid opponents half. Opponent will try to prevent ball pass on them and put his plaeyrs near. You will gain free stab.

  28. maxcarrion September 15, 2010 at 3:39 pm #

    I’m really enjoying my “menace” catcher assassin.  When on defence I always place 1 elf in a scoring position, if I can, just in case the ball comes lose and I can pitch it up field for an easy TD and the assassin has recently earned first choice for the job.  This leaves the opposition in a nasty dilemma, either they can leave him unmarked, great! Easy TD, or they can mark him with 1 Str3 player, stab is much nastier than a 1 dice block and I can lead with it as a safe move instead of holding it for last.  Or they can mark me with stronger/more players in which case it keeps them away from the rest of the field.
     
    Not only does this work just fine with an unskilled assassin they skill up much quicker scoring the TDs.  First two skill picks, dodge and sidestep, once you have these you can also make a great cage marker, you’re hard to push away or knock down and unless they have seriously fast corner guards they’ll struggle to dodge away without being shadowed.  As a catcher dodge is a no brainer and sidestep will let you stay in knife reach of a marker who tries to push you away (or into the crowd).  Block comes third at which point you’re a bonafide pain in the butt able to hang like a limpet from some of the strongest players (those without tackle especially) repeatedly shiving them and making sure they can’t go anywhere

    • Coach September 15, 2010 at 4:06 pm #

      Good idea using them as Catchers as people won’t like marking them. Will also get them SPP when more general use of them tends to leave them undeveloped. Thanks for the comment.

  29. blasterdude3 October 3, 2010 at 7:11 am #

    stabbing has one me games more than once, in fact my 2 assassins once annhialated an entire ork team (mostly, the blitzers helped) and they provided a humourous distraction for my opponent never really succeeding in anything except KOing one and he came in next half, the final score was 4-0. he now generally hates all dakr elves (but he is still a good sport).

  30. Snotty October 6, 2010 at 1:50 pm #

    before i read your comments, i had foolishly givem my assassin mighty blow, then gave him tackle. He has now chopped up high number of fatalities as a defender/tackler. I suppose you could do this with a lineman, and it being alot cheaper. However being a considerable target, will often take the pressure away from other key players.

  31. howabe November 16, 2010 at 10:05 am #

    I’m toying with the idea of making my next Assassin into a man-marker. Blodge would be first 2 skills to keep him standing, followed by Side Step. hopefully it should synergise well with his starting Shadowing to keep him with his man if they try and Dodge away. If you’re still in contact after their turn, you can also get a free Stab in.
    Later skills if they ever happen would be Tackle, Diving Tackle and the like.
    I normally develop 2 of my Blitzers to be able to perform the marking role, so if it turns out to be viable on an Assassin, it would free up one of them for more roaming (and better use of his TV :P)…

  32. Serigala January 14, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    I love the idea of the Catching assassin, as the opponent does have a choice not to get stabbed. I can’t help feeling a bit guilty stabbing an opponenets easy marks, but if they have placed them in position for me to do so then thats fair game. (Maybe I should just harden up and not care!!).

  33. Michael Dyer January 20, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    I have a question about the Stab/Multiple Block combo. Is it actually legal. The Stab rule says that it is used “instead of throwing a block.” By that description it is not a block action just as a Foul is not a block action.

    The Multiple Block rule says “At the start of a Block action…” It is clearly defined as a block action

  34. Coach January 20, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    I wouldn’t have suggested it if it wasn’t legal. Also if that was the case why does the Star Player Horkon Heartripper come with both skills?

    I can categorically confirm that the rules were intended that these two skills can be used in conjunction. If you don’t believe me there isn’t much more I can add!

    • Aleksander January 11, 2016 at 10:37 am #

      I just gave my Assassin this skill in the PS4 Blood Bowl game, and it won’t let him stab twice. Maybe it’s a flaw in the game, or maybe it’s because multiple block is only supposed to work with actual blocks :/

      • Coach January 11, 2016 at 10:47 am #

        Sounds like it is likely a limitation with the game on the PS4.

  35. Michael Dyer January 20, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    I appreciate your swift reply. I sense you are defensiveness that I called your ruling into question. Please don’t feel I’m not attacking you. I can only go with Rules as Written. Your categorical confirmation is not a replacement for what is in the rulebook. It disagrees with you. Was it the intent that they be compatible? Maybe, but the book wasn’t written that way. It is very clear as written that they are NOT compatible.

    It should be brought up in an official FAQ or rules update. Until then comes to the individual gamer. If you and your opponent agree they are compatible, it’s your game. If you think they aren’t it is your game.

    Why would the Star Player have both? Darn good question. He is not a rule, however. Given the lack of clarity on this rule perhaps it is more poor writing on the part of the authors.

    I really appreciate your articles and I’ve found a lot of use in them. Don’t think my disagreement with you on this issue is any sign of lack of respect because your site is awesome. 😀

  36. Michael Dyer January 20, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    Typo in my earlier comment that makes a big meaning change.

    “Please don’t feel I’m not attacking you.” Should read “Please don’t feel I’m attacking you.” Sorry about that. 😀

  37. Coach January 20, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    The authors have said elsewhere that they can combine, hence the Star Player comes with both skills. To elaborate though:

    The Stab rules say that you can use the skill instead of making a block. It also mentions that you can use it as replacement of a block during a Blitz action.

    Multiple Block says that it can only be used in a Block action because it can’t be used as part of a Blitz action.

    A Foul can only be done as part of a Foul action, while a block can be done as part of a Block or a Blitz action. Just like moving can be done as part of a Move, Foul, Pass, Hand Off or Blitz action, or when using Pass Block and Shadowing. Stab just replaces the block part of the relevant actions and Multiple Block lets you do two blocks as part of a Block action, of which Stab can replace one or both of those two blocks if wanted.

    Reading your original question again though I can’t see what wording you are using from the rulebook that would suggest they can’t combine? Stab can be used at any time to replace a block roll by that player. The fact Multiple Block says it can be used at the start of a Block action doesn’t contradict that. Stab doesn’t mention it can be used at the start of a Block action due to the fact it can also replace the block element of a Blitz action, which Multiple Block can not.

    Are you suggesting that Stab is a Stab action and not a Block action which is why Multiple Block doesn’t apply? If so there is no such thing as a Stab action, all the actions are outlined on page 3 of the CRP under the Sequence of Play page.

    Hope that clears things up, I didn’t take any offence to your question, though next time please ask Stab questions in the Stab article or on the forum if there isn’t one. Or use the contact form to email me directly. (So if this doesn’t clear it up use the forum or email me with further points please!) This is about Dark Elf Assassins not Stab or Multiple Block. 🙂

  38. Michael Dyer January 20, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Sorry for posting it in the wrong section. This was where I saw the combo mentioned, hence my reply here. I’ll watch it the next time I ask. 😀

  39. Coach Breakfast June 1, 2011 at 12:08 am #

    In response to Kowalski, oct 5, 2009 (damn I am really new at this) (NB. I am playing out of LRB 5)
    I have been toying with the idea of using an assassin in our small league. Although there are only 10 people, 3 of them are using Dark elves. I am in a position of needing to play the other two dark elf teams back to back, and they are both using the witch elf frenzy ploy to open gaps and pour through. with the right deployment, I am hoping to mark the witch elves with the assassin for shadowing purposes (down to a dice roll to their favour, +7 to them, +6 to me) and stab every turn.
    Because he will be in tackle zones all the time, it is only logical to take block first (for any build). Block keeps you in the square you are in, dodge moves you away (with a possibility of the opponent not following up). I agree that wrestle may be a bit of a counter intuitive skill. Why put the assassin on his back, he is useless there. Just give him block to negate a both down, and have the assassin and blocker standing toe to toe in your next turn.
    Jump up sounds like the next logical skill. He will be hit. He will go down, that is the way the game goes. But to alow him the possibility of getting up from prone to stab someone in his tackle zones is just nasty.
    I also agree that any SPP farming potential for an assassin is somewhat hampened by the stab skill, but the 6 movement is fairly average and getting into the opponent’s threat zone will only work if he starts on the LOS or GFI at least once. Because of this, is it a good idea to take sure feet? Or do you think that is a wasted skill considering the alternatives?

    • Coach June 1, 2011 at 12:13 am #

      I’d never take Sure Feet on a Dark Elf Assassin, especially if your only reason for taking it is to do a GFI to move half the pitch in two turns.

      Side Step would be better and then chain push an opposing player into them to move a square forward. It also keeps them in contact with an opposing player you are looking to use Stab on. You can also use team rerolls for rerolling GFIs. If you want any further help on your team then I suggest posting the roster in a thread on the forum.

  40. Jasper September 8, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    After having giving Multiblock -> Stabbing a try for 20+ games on an Assassin who got doubles for his first skill, I wouldn’t recommend it. It simply comes into play too rarely to be worth it, and I finally wound up cutting him for a rookie Lineman.

    – Suffers from the same problem as Stab — typically you’re better off blocking so you don’t offer your opponent free blocks.

    – Seems like it’d be good on the line of scrimmage, but to get two blocks you need to take one of the interior spots that really wants to go to a Guard player, and when it would be effective opponents will just spread out. A long passing orientated team might get some edge from being able to easily slip receivers through the defense against teams that spread out to avoid Multiblock, but I played more of a running and short pass offense.

    – My other plan was to stand the Multiblock Assassin next to two down players, then stab them after they stand. In practice though the assassin usually wasn’t in the right place at the right time, and the few times he was he’d often just get blitzed off.

    – My Multiblock Assassin ended up riding the bench, eating up 120k TV. I don’t mind having good bench players, but typically when I bring them in it’s because someone up front has been hurt and I need a sturdier replacement player.

  41. Jasper September 8, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    My preferred Assassin scheme is a hybrid of what Coach suggests:
    Block, Sidestep, Diving Tackle, then Dodge|Jump Up|Pass Block|Tackle|Leap depending on the rest of the team’s development and who you’ll be facing.

    Doubles: Nerves of Steel or Guard, and I’d probably skip it early on.
    Stats: ST obviously, AG (then get Leap!), maybe MV for the combo with Shadowing.

    Block I think is key, as it protects them, prevents them from being singled out for punishment, and lets you block reliably which you’ll want to do more often than stab.

    Sidestep let’s you stay close for Shadowing, Stabbing (which is still useful sometimes!), and later Diving Tackle. It also helps avoid chain blocks and is rarely cancelled (unlike Dodge). It’s also very handy to have a few Sidestep plays for sideline defense, although this often falls to your Witch Elves.

    Diving Tackle combines well with Shadowing, and is a great utility skill on it’s own against more developed teams. Assassins often wind up in a pass defense role when you face teams good at passing, and this helps pin them down for some one on one stabbing. It’s surprisingly useful in the thick of a ruck too, as opponents will forget where your Diving Tackle is more often than you’d think.

    As for doubles, Guard is just good in general and Dark Elves really need as much as they can get, especially if you’ve had few doubles on your Blitzers and Linemen. Nerves of Steel lets the assassin do double duty as a safe Dump Off threat, and also an interception threat; it’s probably best combined with Pass Block.

  42. Leonardo April 23, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    How do Diving Tackle goes well with Shadowing? using diving tackle puts you on the ground, after the first dodge out of a zone, but before the others you could get from shadowing, right?

    • Coach April 23, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

      You can keep using Shadowing until they fail a dodge and have to use a team reroll or the Dodge skill. If they have no reroll to use and Diving Tackle would make them fail, then use that to use the turnover. Also if they roll so high on the dodge roll that Diving Tackle wouldn’t make any difference then you would just save it and elect to use Shadowing which can force more dodge attempts. Once you’ve used Diving Tackle you are correct that you can’t then use Shadowing as you are on the ground, so you have to be smart about when you choose to use it. Sometimes just forcing them to use a team reroll even if it lets them get away can be worth it, especially if they have lots of future rolls to make that turn in other actions.

  43. Jasper April 24, 2012 at 9:51 pm #

    If you’re playing Cyanide’s online Blood Bowl, make sure to go into the skill options and set Diving Tackle to “Ask”. Otherwise Diving Tackle will be used even when it does nothing but make your player fall over. :-/

  44. Vibez August 24, 2012 at 7:31 am #

    does mighty blow effect the stab in any way? or what about piling on after a stab?

    • Coach August 24, 2012 at 9:42 am #

      No, Stab is unaffected by either of those skills, it is always a straight armour roll. Both Mighty Blow and Piling On say they can only be used when doing a block. Stab replaces the block as part of a Blitz or Block action. The Stab skill description also says that it is an unmodified roll, with the only exception being Stakes. Hope they clears it up for you.

  45. Vibez August 24, 2012 at 11:18 pm #

    ok thanks coach 🙂

  46. Joe March 1, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    Thanks for the wright ups Coach. They have really helped give me some ideas. As a new player to blood bowl this wright ups have helped me pick up some tips to be able to compete. Assassin with multi block is fun. The threat alone is worth more than actually doing it.

  47. Sahne March 1, 2013 at 9:27 pm #

    Hi there! just started with the cyanide game and got to this page. I don´t have much experience with the Druchii, but I’d like to give my impression on the assassins.
    First of, whereas many people say “I use them as potential catchers” and others say “I use them to mark people and defend”, I say “why not do both?” DEs are a very versatile race, and you can switch from one type of playmode to another at any moment. The assassin demonstrates that versatility. Do put him, when attacking, near the endzone, so the other team won’t know if he has to blitz your two assasins or your carrier. Does your carrier get blitzed? drop off the ball to the assassin. Does your assassin get blitzed? Np, keep going with your runner. Is your runner marked and your assassin blitzed? Dodge out of there, and if you need to go through more TZs, pass the ball to the witch and let her do the dodging. Are your assassins and your runner marked? That means less TZs to dodge for the witch that wasn’t blitzed. And don’t forget to stab a low AV mark or dodge out (2+!) of a high AV TZs with the assassins before starting over!
    But how do you do to get the assassins up there near the endzone? You wait one turn with your assassins before moving up. Even on the first turn when receiving, don’t put the assassins on the LOS to do stabbing. Normally, the enemies there have a high AV and after missing the stab you’ll end up in their TZ. Put them so as to be a hindrance to the advance of their catchers, or whoever tries to go to your ball carrier, who is about in the middle of your field.
    -Do this also to defend an advance when you’re the kicking team!- If you have two assassins, the players of the other team probably will go through your TZs, you’ll be able to shadow and make them dodge many times. And if you don’t cause a turnover, you’ll end up after their turn next to one of the opposing team, ready for a stabbing.
    So: use shadowing defensively to position your assassins for a stab.
    How does that have anything to do with attacking and positioning your assassins in their field? Well, here it is: after probably causing a turnover, the other team will have an opening somewhere. Go through that opening with one assassin, following with your ball carrier. Position your other assassin on the other side. The other team will refocus on the side with the carrier, eventually opening up another way for the other assassin to pass through.
    To make the assassin’s advance easier, i do think that dodge is a very important skill for an assassin, but still not as useful as leap. Why is that? Because if you need a dodger, you already have the witch. And why take block? You already have blockers on your team. Assassins get their SPPs instinctively through their shadowing, that might cause quite some concussions, and even position them perfectly for interceptions, so you might get an occasional SPP there. And, offensively, if they are positioned near the endzone, they will probably get some SPP through TDs.
    So why leap for assassins? Because it is the best way for a Dark Elf to deal with cages! Does the enemy team cage up? Put your own team around their cage without being on their TZ, so they will only be able to tackle one person at a time. If a caging team tries to go through your wall, your assassins will shadow. After an eventual turnover, you will have an opening to the ball carrier that will probably require at least two dodge rolls of 3+ and 4+ and a negative 2 block roll in their favor that will end in a turnover. So why not change that for just one leap roll of 3+, and 2d6 roll of difficulty 7+, 8+, or even 10+ (which I think is more probable to succeed than a negative 2 block roll) that doesn’t even cause a turnover if it fails?
    Of course you could level up block or dodge first for an assassin, but… Why would you? As I have said, you already have such positional players. If you say you want him to live longer, ok… but for what? If he’s not doing what he should be doing, but working as a slower, more expensive blitzer, I ask myself why. Let’s think about leveling leap as a second skill. How many chances of leaping into a cage did he miss until then?
    Another thing: is there a wall that requires 3 dodge rolls of 5+, 4+ and 2+ to go through? Leap through it and change those rolls for a 3+ leap and a 2+ dodge.
    Ok, so your level 2 leaping assassin got killed in the cage, ok.. It can happen. They focused him with blitz because he proved to be such a nuisance? That can be the case. But hey! You only lost a lev 2 assassin! And since he was the one who got focused, you got those TDs with your dodgy witch who now got block at lev 2 and is unstoppable! Get a new assassin, make sure to make 6 passes in a game. There you go. Agility 4 makes that an easy objective.

    Disclaimer: by all means I don’t think this is the only way to play an assassin! It is just the way I play DEs and I just wanted to be emphatic and expand on joemanji’s idea!
    PS: English is not my native language 😛 2nd, I hope this wasn’t too long or out of place ^^ If it was, just tell me before deleting the comment and I’ll post this on the forum! 😀

    • EdTheMad March 12, 2013 at 9:03 pm #

      I find quite interesting your thoughts about leaping Assassins. I will probable try on mine. Still think that Leap -> Dodge -> Side Step is the better build, using your tactic.

  48. Joe March 14, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    An assassin with leap can be fun to play and a very annoying figure for you opponent. It really comes down to if you are playing against high armored teams. Also die rolls, I have had times where my assassin was hitting figures with high armor and my teams easily won, Yet against the same teams my assassin never rolled above a four! I like to think the threat of a leaping assassin with miuti-block is great. Other coaches do not want to mark her or place the ball within her rance. This opens up my other players to control where the ball goes and lets them get at the ball. My problem is offense, I can not seem to score or make them a threat. Again a lot of that comes down to my dice rolling a lot of ones…

  49. Omorgoth November 18, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

    In BB: Legendary Edition I get 2 SSP if a stab causes a casualty. Is this a bug? Started to play a team of 2 Assasins 1 Blitzer and 1 Runner 7 Linemen 3 RR and won 3 of 3 games

    (in two of them the opponent abbandoned the match since they suffered at least 1 KO or Cas per turn through it.
    Best of them were:
    1Ogre (Hum) – Badly hurt in the 1st turn (I was receiving)
    7 KOs in the first round (Ama) – for this while he lost all of his key players. He was the only one who didnt concede.
    2x the same Ogre stunned and 4/5 Snotlings cas/KO (Ogr)

    I look forward to the higher TVs. I got a lot of money for which I exchanged some Linemen with Blitzers and took an Apo. One of the Assasins got Block.

    Even without getting the SSP this would be fun! I want to know how Assasins go against Chaos or Dwarves 🙂

    • MacPhee November 22, 2013 at 10:22 pm #

      Legendary Edition SPP is a bug.

      LRB6 rulebook, page 27:
      Casualties (CAS): If a player causes an opposing player to be
      removed as a Casualty then they earn 2 Star Player points. The
      points are only earned if the player blocks an opponent or is
      blocked by an opponent himself. Casualties inflicted in any other
      way (including injuries inflicted by the crowd or from attacks with
      chainsaws, bombs, or the Stab skill) do not count for Star Player
      points.

  50. Limdood March 5, 2014 at 4:37 pm #

    just a comment about the leap skill on the assassin – a response for all the people who swear by it as an amazing choice.

    for the purposes of ballcarrier hunting, an assassin with leap can really hardly be compared to a wardancer with one skill (usually strip ball or tackle) for a number of reasons.

    First of all, the assassin is significantly less durable. With AV7, no dodge and no block, the assassin will face very easy 2d blocks to knock him over (75% chance) or at LEAST get pushed away/knocked over (97.6% chance!). Your odds of getting the ballcarrier down AFTER succeeding the naked 3+ roll are still under 50% (you need to roll an 8+ on AV7 ballcarriers, which is a 15/36 chance)

    Secondly, assuming you do manage to get a takedown on the ballcarrier, an assassin doesn’t move his target, so the odds are extremely high that the ball will end up in multiple tacklezones or be caught by a cage corner. A wardancer making the same hit will generally push her target to the edge, which is a benefit even on a failed knockdown as it lets you more heavily mark the ballcarrier.

    Finally, the assassin won’t have the support skills to capitalize on the hit. A wardancer will have tackle or strip ball (or possibly more, with how fast they level!) for helping to ensure the ball pops free even on a roll of something other than a pow. Furthermore, the wardancer starts with dodge, so after leaping into the cage and making the block, you only have a 3+ skilled dodge into a tacklezone and a 2+ skilled dodge out of a tacklezone to free your wardancer from any reprisals. The assassin will never even be able to ATTEMPT those dodges because stab ends your movement on a blitz.

    In summary, when an assassin leaps into a cage to hit a ballcarrier, the odds are rather low that the stab+leap will work (5/18 chance on AV7, which is slightly under 30%), the assassin will be very susceptible to revenge blocks, and the ball or ballcarrier will generally be unrecoverable/unmarkable after the stab, since stab doesn’t move the target, allowing the ball to scatter from the centerpoint of the cage even on a success.

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