top

general

Tags: ,

Dirty Player

Dirty Player (General)

Add 1 to any Armour roll or Injury roll made by a player with this skill when they make a Foul as part of a Foul Action. Note that you may only modify one of the dice rolls, so if you decide to use Dirty Player to modify the Armour roll, you may not modify the Injury roll as well.

Overview:

There is no other skill like Dirty Player that by itself can make a lowly Zombie strike the fear into the hearts of opponents.  On low TV players, Dirty Player maximizes your fouling potential so that high value targets can potentially be eliminated at the risk of losing a low-value scrub.  Let’s take a look at some figures to see how potent Dirty Player is.

When fouling, a player is ejected if he rolls doubles on either the armor roll or the injury roll.  Doubles for 2 6-sided dice has a probability of occurring 1/6 times.  If you don’t break armor, there is only a 1/6 (16.7%) chance of getting ejected since you don’t get to make an injury roll.  If you do break armor, however, this value jumps up to 11/36 (~31%).

Let’s take a look at some tables Armour Break and Injury Tables.  Let’s assume that throughout a game you  make 8 fouls each with 3 assists on an AV9 player.

For every assist on a foul, the target’s AV is reduced by 1.  With 3 assists our target player will have an adjusted AV value of 6.

From the table, at an AV of 6, there is a 14.6% probability of getting a KO and a 9.7% probability of getting a CAS.  This is a total of: 24.3%

So take 8 fouls * 24.3% = 1.944 player removals.

If you foul an AV9 player with 3 assists for every turn of the first half, you will on average remove 2 players by KO or CAS.

Now let’s see how many people will get ejected.  Breaking AV6 armor occurs 58.33% of the time.  So (100%-58.33%) armor is NOT broken 41.67% of the time.  Let’s check our fouls.

Take 8 fouls * 58.33% (armor breaking) * 31% (ejection rate) + 8 fouls * 41.67% (armor not breaking) * 16.7% (ejection rate)

You get: 1.44 + .55 = 1.99 players ejected.

If you foul an AV9 player with 3 assists for every turn of the first half, you will on average have 2 players ejected.

So mathematically speaking, you want to have a low TV for high TV swap there.  Sometimes you’ll get lucky, sometimes you won’t.  On average, however, you can expect these results.

Now let’s see what your results are with Dirty Player.  Go back to the Armour Break and Injury Tables.  Instead of looking at the first white column, look at the second blue column under the MB DP KO / MB DP CAS columns.  At AV6 (remember because we’re fouling with 3 assists) KO probability skyrockets to 21.3% and CAS probability skyrockets to 18.5%.  This is a total of: 39.8%!

So take 8 fouls * .398 = 3.184

With Dirty Player if you foul an AV9 player with 3 assists for every turn of the first half, you will on average have 3 players removed by KO or CAS.

Combine this with your CPOMBER who is blitzing every single turn, you ON AVERAGE will take out half the AV 9 team (5 total) by the first half!!!!  ON AVERAGE!  Imagine what would happen if you were lucky?  Obviously you will have unlucky days and have guys ejected on the first couple of fouls, but….  that’s Blood Bowl.  If you have a full roster to handle it, though, the ejections won’t hurt you.

Let’s look at AV7.  Fouling 8 times with 3 assists will on average:

  • Remove 2.776 players
  • Have 2.25 players ejected
  • With DP, you will remove 4.16 players

I will leave the calculations to you.

In other words, on average 2.25 zombies will remove 2.776 wood elves by the half.  With DP, those 2.25 zombies will remove 4.16 elves BY HALF TIME!  Not a bad trade off!

Benefits:

  • Increases your chances of injuring a high-value target.
  • A Dirty Player becomes a target for blitzing (keeping your own high-value targets safe).
  • Like a wizard, a dirty player’s mere presence affects gameplay.

Disadvantages:

  • Getting caught and ejected without causing damage!

Useful to:

Dirty player gets better the lower-valued your linemen are.  This is because the lower-priced your linemen are, the more likely you’ll have a full 16 man roster.  Losing a dirty player from ejection is not as catastrophic if you have a full 16 man roster.  However,  if you only have 11 players to spare for the game, an ejection would hurt you from a defensive perspective.  Zombies, Marauders, Hobgoblins, Goblins, Halflings, and any other low-cost unit are perfect to take the skill.

The higher the base value of the player, the less lucrative a foul becomes.  This doesn’t mean you can’t give dirty player to a high value lineman such as an elf, but based on the high costs and spiraling expenses, a foul becomes a much more pinpoint and higher risk decision.  There better be a good reason to do it (like fouling their only Mighty Blow, Tackle, Piling On player).  Otherwise, your most likely minimal roster will suffer an ejection weakening your position further.

Summary:

Dirty Player significantly increases your chances of injuring a player on a foul.  As can be seen from the figures above, Dirty Player is most effective when given to 2 or 3 dedicated low-level players whose sole job is to foul.  With a squad like this, and an effective fouling campaign, you will be known for many games of massacre.  Just remember that there is a ball!

,

18 Responses to Dirty Player

  1. Waldorf May 2, 2015 at 8:34 am #

    Great article. But I personally would not classify a Dwarf at a minimum of 70k as a low cost unit, either in raw price or in on-pitch value. Since they start with three useful skills out of the box at that price, those skills need to be on the pitch. Of course Halfings have starting skills too, but they only cost 30k!

    • crimsonsun May 2, 2015 at 10:14 am #

      Agreed.. Hobgoblins on the other hand however…

    • Skip Tasteless May 2, 2015 at 5:02 pm #

      You’re right. I only included them because dwarves have the AV9 to sustain them throughout the season. This means a 13-14 man roster as well as a stockpile of money that allows a long-term fouling strategy.

      For the sake of the article and brevity I’ll remove it.

  2. CariadocThorne May 11, 2015 at 10:09 pm #

    How useful would you say dirty player is in an elf team for occasional group fouling of a high value target like a downed killer?

    Obviously an elf team can’t afford to be fouling every turn, but at the same time, they have the mobility to set up multiple assists, and still be able to get players back into position quickly.

    I’m thinking of giving it to one or two lineelves as a third or fourth skill, does that sound about right?

  3. Waldorf May 11, 2015 at 10:21 pm #

    I’d say by the time they are on to their third or fourth skill they are too valuable in terms of TV to risk having sent off. The ideal fouling piece is surely the low-cost, no other skill Lineman. Lower the cost the better, ie. base cost 30-50k. Every piece you use to foul should cost less than the target otherwise a send-off gets you a net loss, even if you do injure.

    • Skip Tasteless May 12, 2015 at 12:44 am #

      I agree with Waldorf.

      You want to decrease the TV of the fouler. In this case, I would either foul with a Level 2 Dirty Player linemen or a Loner Linemen (if you’re given journeymen).

      Successful Elf defense heavily correlates with the number of players you have on the field. In most cases, fouling isn’t a smart choice.

      After continuous games with elves you should start getting a feel for how many guys you will lose throughout a half. If you’re facing one or two Mighty Blow players and you have AV8, you shouldn’t expect too much damage. In this case, the risk / reward isn’t high. I would not risk the foul…

      However, if you’re up against a Tackle, Claw, Mighty Blow, Piling On, Jump Up player along with 2 -3 other MB players, then you can expect a few of your players will leave the pitch. This is ironically the moment you should be fouling.

      It’s either lose 1 fouler from ejection or lose 4-5 guys from unabashed Piling On.

      Stick a boot into the Piling On player (especially with a few assists) and that coach will think twice about doing it again. This is what saves your players. If you’re lucky, you’ll injure the killer.

  4. CariadocThorne May 12, 2015 at 7:20 pm #

    Hmm, I may skip dirty player then, as I can’t justify having a player who is only a fouler taking up a place in a team of 14, let alone as one of the 11 on the pitch. In the past i always took it 3rd or 4th so the player was already useful, but also gave me the option to foul when suitable situations came up.

    • Skip Tasteless May 12, 2015 at 7:39 pm #

      What league are you playing in where you still have 14 players!? 😉

      14 players is a luxury. That would be exactly the roster I would like to have him on. Just give him DP, and put him in the backfield.

      If you’re up against a killer bash offense, move everybody back out of range of the blitzer… (or you can bait the blitzer by placing a player on the edge of his range with your whole team standing by to foul him…)

      This type of thinking throughout the game is what isolates the killer player so you can either foul him next turn (/w many assists), or blitz / foul him next turn (/w many assists).

  5. CariadocThorne May 12, 2015 at 11:36 pm #

    Ok, admittedly I don’t have 14 at the moment, but that just compounds the problem. 14 is probably the most players an elf team should have, giving enough reserves without exacerbating TV bloat.

    I do see what you’re saying, and how it could be useful, but I’m not sure I can justify such a situational specialist in a team like High Elves. I already have a dedicated marking specialist (and even he is useful outside his specialist role) , and I think two highly situational specialists is probably more than an elf team can support.

    • Skip Tasteless May 14, 2015 at 5:20 pm #

      I see your point. It can be cumbersome to employ a Dirty Player lineman… especially if he gets to Level 3.

      I had this issue before. However. 90TV is a good tradeoff for a CPOMBER because that CPOMBER will be responsible for about 300-400TV worth of player removal during the game.

      When you look at it that way, the DP player swap makes more sense.

      If you play by the “Rule of Five” then you’ll only have 5 superstar players with the rest acting as fodder. If the rest of the players are fodder (used to protect the higher value players) then you can easily fit DP on one of them… just like you can give Kick to one of them too.

      If you’re evenly trying to distribute SPP among the team, then yes I can see where it would be difficult to implement another specialist.

      • Skip Tasteless May 14, 2015 at 6:32 pm #

        Let me post a disclaimer….

        I have taken DP once before. The player leveled up (to my chagrin) and I took Sneaky Git on him next. My DP player got hardly any use! He took up TV, and when our teams were reset (we can keep 3 players) I dropped him. This turned me off from DP.

        However, there are more dynamics in play with DP and elf teams than if you were playing with Halflings or a Necro team. Team management is a HUGE factor in determining how much use you’ll get out of the skill.

        Roster size heavily influences if you can foul. Think about it. If I have an 11 roster High Elf team with 4 journeymen… who am I fouling with (IF AT ALL!)? My Loners or my DP? Well it would make sense with the Loners because they’re pretty much inconsistent (I’ve lost plenty of games due to loners) and at least I have full team re-roll use with my DP player.

        The closer you keep 11 men on the field, the better your defense is. Period. This is what makes fouling so difficult. A player has 8 tackle zones. That ejection could be pivotal in removing a much needed player to cover an area. Any players lost in the first half carry over to 2nd half, and you’ll have to repeat the process that much weaker.

        For a 14 man roster, however, fouling is MUCH SAFER. 🙂 That’s why I say 14 men is the perfect scenario for a fouler to fit on the team. Why? Because losing a player in the first half won’t harm you in the second half (unless your opponent’s block dice are spectacular). There’s less risk involved with the foul.

        So yes. In the past, I’ve been turned off by DP, but it was in an environment where I was playing with multiple loners every week. BUT!!! and this is a BIG BUT!. I’m not the all-knowing, all-conclusive High Elf guru out there. 🙂 With the right play-style adjustments and team management, DP could be a valuable tool in your arsenal. It’s just a strategy I haven’t fully explored in the competitive setting.

        The problem with DP is that it works well when it’s on a lower TV player. That means your player is “locked”. You don’t want him to go up in level. If he does, then you’ll have to deal with the painful decision of either giving him a useful defensive skill (decreasing the potential tradeoff for a foul) or firing him (not really a good idea either). Since linemen don’t have much of a lifespan anyway, you can use him as fodder (where he’ll be a prime target for sure), or you can keep him behind a screen looking to foul (making it more difficult to protect your other high valued players).

        The DP player, however, will affect gameplay as the opposing coach will not want to stretch himself out. Take note, you can get the same effect without DP by just surrounding a fallen player and fouling. DP just advertises, “YES. I FOUL. AND YES I SPENT 20TV TO MAKE MY FOULING BETTER” without you having to actually risk a foul.

        So the question then becomes… how can I keep my team healthy enough so that I can reach a 13-14 man roster so that I can properly employ a DP player?

        For me, the solution is not immediately firing skilled players with niggling injuries. In those situations where my team is in a funk and half the team seems to be employed by journeymen… I just stay patient. I hire any journeymen who win the MVP (free SPP!) and slowly build up cash reserves (it’s much easier if you still win despite the crippled team). Once adequate cash reserves have been reached, you can fill your roster to 12-13 men. Remember, spiraling expenses kick in at 1750TV so it’s better to budget and pay for high volume transactions (2-3 players) in one shot than it is to purchase piecemeal. (Your loss of income from spiraling expenses will make purchasing players more difficult).

        So long story short…. in the right scenario DP can work for your team, but you’ll have to manage your team properly before you can safely benefit from it.

        So yea. In my case, I made a mistake taking the DP player too “early” (or maybe I should have fouled with him during those games, but kept all of my players back instead of the traditional 2 by 2 defensive formation, thus minimizing the blocks my players took). There are so many what-ifs. The thing is, you don’t know until you try it. That being said, this seems like a skill best suited to be left for a practice squad. Once a coach can master its nuances, it opens up options for his “best team”.

        I love experimenting with team builds. The easiest way for me is to play at http://www.fumbbl.com. You get quick games against very skilled opponents. Once you’re comfortable with and have proven that an idea works you can then implement it on your Crunch Cup / Old World Football / OCC blood bowl teams!

        So… i agree with you. If you don’t feel like there’s room for 2 specialists then there isn’t room for 2 specialists! 🙂 It’s all about your play style and the comfort level you have in using your weapons.

  6. CariadocThorne May 14, 2015 at 8:03 pm #

    I’m definitely a “spread the love” kind of coach, and my idea of “fodder” in non-rookie team is a lineman with only dodge and wrestle.

    I might still stick DP on a wrodge lineman some time just so i have the option of more effective fouling if i need it. I’m not too worried about the TV aspect of the trade-off, as a players real value can be very different from his TV. Trading a TV130 lineman is worth it if the target is the opponents only or best killer.

    I’ll try it, and if i don’t like it, I’ll tell him to wave his arms & jump up and down in front of the killer instead ????

    It’s not exactly difficult to skill a replacement rookie up with wrestle and dodge, after all, not in a high elf team.

    • Skip Tasteless May 14, 2015 at 8:41 pm #

      Cool. Keep us in the loop on what you find! I’m sure there are other elf coaches debating what to do with this. Feel free to include your replay as well! 🙂

  7. magfa May 16, 2015 at 2:11 pm #

    The math is a little bit off, as dp also increase ur send off chance. Not that it matters much though.

    Big thing to consider with fouling though is that ur send off is permanently gone, while u mostly score ko:s. Odds are also significantly shifted when trying to foul TS players.

    • Skip Tasteless June 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm #

      I agree. It’s negligible for our case because of the corner cases of using DP to give you the extra +1 to break armor. What do you mean by TS players?

      • Waldorf June 6, 2015 at 9:49 am #

        Thick Skull I presume.

  8. Conspicuous CUltist May 29, 2015 at 8:39 pm #

    I have two dirty players on my Norse team with one for each half and I can’t express enough how quickly things devolve into a one-sided match once you have first blood and apply your advantage on the pitch.

    Given how rare it is to get ejected, plus having nothing happen if you’re properly gangfouling into AV5 you’re bound to get value out of your 40 – 50k guys rather quickly because on the ground everybody is equal in the eyes of Nuffle.

    In fact, I sometimes feel bad how I ruined many teams using this ruthless tactic.

  9. spworldtour October 15, 2015 at 5:49 pm #

    Fouling is one of the available options in the game.

    I’d say it’s one of the best ways to balance Elves vs humans (or human substitutes) When I play my elves, (I love all elves with some extra love for WE) if the opposing coach isn’t fouling my top 5 pieces, I will dominate.

    WD’s are just ‘foul’ when they have 3 skills. I’ve taken apart teams with 2 WD’s and a bit of luck. People HAVE to focus on them or they will lose.

    Hence Fouling is useful. And if you’re going to foul, than you need DP.

    That’s about how it shakes out.

Leave a Reply