[Tactics] To bribe or not to bribe(TT finals)

[bobman]

Originally Posted by Orient

this upsets me deeply.

Wow old thread.

Curious as to why you would be upset though.

[Orient]

indeed, lookin at the dates it does look some rather vile thread necromancy on my part :S

but as for kick, while it is a neccessary if somewhat unglamourous skill its probably best placed on a lineman instead after process of elimination (everyone else can make far better use of other skills) that plus the linemen are the grunts of the team. For a blitzer to take kick instead of something like tackle as a first skill it feels like a bit of a waste

[bobman]

Well quite. But the two linemen I have get played on the LOS on defense because the extra speed/starting block is required in the backfield, making kick unuseable.

The kick dilemma on an orc team is where with the ridiculous amount positionals (that is another argument).

[Orient]

with so many black orcs and a troll it would be suprising not to be able to spare one off the line (even if just a few squares back to mitigate the Move5)

[Barmution]

In general I wouldn't want anything but fodder on the LoS when defending. I went against that rule during my last Crunch Cup match and a Block/Guard Nurgle Warrior wound up with a -AV due to a (un)lucky block.

[Nikolai II]

Originally Posted by Orient

with so many black orcs and a troll it would be suprising not to be able to spare one off the line (even if just a few squares back to mitigate the Move5)

Trolls ain't used on highly succesful orc teams. Black Orcs take forever to skill up and are extremely vital for high-level orc play, so they are not to be risked on the LoS.

So Linemen it is, padded with your "least skilled blitzers"

[bobman]

Originally Posted by Nikolai II

Trolls ain't used on highly succesful orc teams. Black Orcs take forever to skill up and are extremely vital for high-level orc play, so they are not to be risked on the LoS.

So Linemen it is, padded with your "least skilled blitzers"

Help a brother out. What would be your ideal orc lineup? I feel like my play is getting a little better, but the wins are hard to come by. So I've taken to stripping as much out of the TV I can.

[Orient]

We had a team in our recent league which did very well due in part to the shrewd skill selection, and the thrower rolling +1 AG as first skill

the team ended up something like:

4 Black orcs (3 with block, 1 block/mb)
4 blitzers (3 with tackle, 1 with tackle and MB)
1 thrower (+1ag, block, strong arm, accurate)
2 linemen
1 troll (pilling on)

his typical default set up was deep defence, with 2 black orcs and a troll on the front line, and the 2 other black orcs playing the inside near corners. The outsides were generally the blitzers. The game plan was of the typical "take it to them" variety. With all that tackle going on he could throw a up a solid defence that was difficult escape from, and the black orcs could happily lump people all day long, even taking on big guys on a 2dice-opponents-favour roll so long as they didnt have block knowing the odds wernt that bad

[Nikolai II]

Orcs can manage quite a while with a troll, but once they break 1800 it seems as if most trolls become a liability.

Note though that this was based upon what someone else said about OCC Tier 1 and 2 orcs, but now that I look at this seasons Division 1 orcs one of the teams have a troll. Granted, a Block Pro Guard troll, so he's as safe as he can get I suppose.

Grumpy Gits: (Currently with a 1-1-1 record in Div 1)
4 BoB - all with Block, Guard, Mighty Blow
4 Blitzers - all have Tackle and MB (then one has guard, grab, PO; one has pro, AG 4, Pass Block; one has MV 7, PO, JU; last one has Frenzy and Dodge)
2 Throwers - one MV 4 ST 4 Strong Arm Accurate (No block or KOR?) and one with Block, Accurate, KOR and Tackle
2 Linemen - one MV 4 Block, Kick and one with Block (named Dead Meat III)
One Troll (Block, Pro, Guard) and one unskilled goblin. (One-turn wonder?)

Toronto Orkonauts: (Current record 0-1-1 in Div 1)
4 BoB - all but one have MB, Block, Guard. (then one also has MV 3, SF, grab; one has SF, tackle; one has AG 1, AV 8, tackle; and the last one doesn't have MB yet, only Block and Guard)
4 Blitzers - interesting ones - one has SS, DT, Guard, Dodge; the killer one has AV 8, MBPOJU, tackle, guard, juggernaut; one has ST 4 AG 2 frenzy, dodge, SF, guard; and the last one has SS, tackle, MB, guard
1 Thrower - MV 6, ST 4, KOR, Block, Accurate, Kick
4 Linemen - all have block, two of which also have tackle and the third also has guard.
1 Goblin - Dirty Player + Sneaky Git

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As for other hi-ranked orc teams:
Occam's Choppa (OCC 2a): Troll - Guard, SF, Grab (4 Blitz, 3 BoB, Troll, Gob, Throw, 4 Lino)
Despized (OCC 2c): Troll - Guard (4 Blitz, 4 BoB, Troll, Throw, 3 Lino - 13 players)
The Green Boy Hackers (OCC 2d): Troll - unskilled (4 Blitz, 4 BoB, Troll, Gob, 2 Throw, Lino - 13 players)
Fluffy White Bunnies (Stockbowl): Troll - Guard, Grab, PO, Multiblock (4 Blitz, 4 BoB, Troll, Gob, Throw, Lino - 12 players, since he doesn't play the fouling game)

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So going by that trolls seem acceptable, even if half of their purpose is to stand on the LOS during kickoffs.

So Kick can go anywhere if used, but on the Defensive Thrower doesn't seem to be a half bad idea. Else on a Lineman that's used away from the LOS (meaning you need at least three linos)

And the ideal lineup.. well, 4 BoB and 4 Blitz are a given. So are at least 1 thrower. That means you have 2 players left to add (+reserves).

So the "Basic setup" that coach suggested is probably the ideal one to start out with. Then get a second thrower for "block, accurate, kick, KOR" to get the ball up front faster.

I'd probably suggest another lineman to round things off, but there is a point to the troll as a "general roadblock" - meaning Guard and Stand Firm (Block on doubles, pro on the next one). And once you've shifted out one lineman for a troll, you're back to considering whether you should get a goblin for the TTM attempt...

Orcs do generally well, but they seem to have a hard time to go the distance, and usually succeed best when around TV 1700..