[Dark Elf] Dauntless on Dark Elf teams

[Coach]

Someone made a comment about why I hadn't listed Dauntless on the Witch Elves as they would make a faster, more mobile and more agile Troll Slayer.

Now personally I don't think you really need Dauntless on a Dark Elf team at all. Against the stronger sides you can stall and out manoeuvre them anyway. Though if I was going to get Dauntless I would think a Blitzer and Linemen are better suited for the job. There is the other thing to consider that against a lot of teams it wouldn't be that good as their only stronger player may be a Big Guy. Against those teams a Lineman is more likely to be used to tie up the Big Guy so a chance to hit them could be a worth while addition. I would want my Witch Elves doing things else where.

They are not really much less mobile than a Witch Elf and Frenzy can get you into trouble generally let along against stronger players. The stronger teams will also usually have more Guard making Frenzy even more problematic than on Dwarf teams which will usually have the most Guard.

Blitzers and Linemen also have more armour and stronger players are going to be inclined to get Mighty Blow at some point. Frenzy forces you to follow up and if you just blocked rather than blitzed there is a high chance they will be hitting your player back the next turn as well.

How do other people feel about this, anything else to add or reasons to suggest the Witch Elf is indeed well suited for Dauntless?

[sunnyside]

It might be tempting to put dauntless on a leaper. I don't play DE, but when against them I've had some success giving the ball to an Ulfwerener, especially once they have block.

This would give them an option against opponents doing things like that.

It could also be useful for opening up a gap in the deffense.

But I'm not sure the witch elf is the best suited for it. Especially since you have to re-roll dauntless when you frenzy.

[jamesprobert]

I probably wouldn't do it, especially as dauntless eat TRRs for breakfast if you're not careful about it, and frenzy makes that problem worse.

The Dwarves can just about get away with the combo, but only because they tend to have so much more guard than anyone else, that they can set it up such that it's a 1db even if they fail the daunt roll.

I don't doubt that some people would do it, and plausably pull it off with some success, but it wouldn't be my style.

As for daunt on a leaper, sunnyside, if they are caging, the chances are they've got guard and your pulling a -2db even if you do get the daunt roll, so it doesn't make a lot of odds IMHO and you'd be better off with strip ball or wrestle to get the ball loose.


James

[VoidSeer]

Short answer
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Dauntless on DE team: YES
Dauntless on a witch elf: NO


Long answer
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I like dauntless on a blitzer with my DE teams.
I just finished a 6 teams league playing DE. I do not regret investing in that skill.
I thought at first to use it mainly as a counter for opponents big guys. It turned out that dauntless was a huge help against ST4 players (chaos warrior, black orcs, saurus) which my league was full of.

It's an easy way of getting a 2D block without consuming an extra player to set it up. If you fail your roll you still get the 1D block.
Aside from that, its still useful to protect your players. Blitzing a mino is a good way to have your opponent waste his blitz the next turn.

DE have 4 blitzers, that give a good room to specialize them a little.

Dauntless on a witch elf, is on the contrary a poor choice IMO. Frenzy + dauntless is a big no in my book, too many things can go wrong and witches have better skills to get.

[sunnyside]

Originally Posted by jamesprobert

As for daunt on a leaper, sunnyside, if they are caging, the chances are they've got guard and your pulling a -2db even if you do get the daunt roll, so it doesn't make a lot of odds IMHO and you'd be better off with strip ball or wrestle to get the ball loose.

Once you get the ball on a S4 player against a team without dauntless you almost don't have to cage.

In any case I think every team does something that could roughly be construed as caging, or at least screening, even if they aren't the grinding sort. Yes?

leaper aside a little dauntless on a non witch elf can just give a lot of options that would otherwise be bad.

[Khail]

I can see the argument for Dauntless, though realistically I’d put it on a Line Elf instead of a Blitzer. Generally my Line Elves have more important things to worry about skill wise though.

I’m 8 games into a 10 game season with a starting team. 6 of my games so far have been against high Str teams (1 Nurgle, 2 Chaos, 3 Orc). I have no Dauntless and have handily won 5 of those 6 games, tying the other. So you obviously don’t NEED Dauntless to be successful. I may pick some up eventually, but it isn’t a priority for me in my early games.

[sunnyside]

Originally Posted by Khail

I can see the argument for Dauntless, though realistically I’d put it on a Line Elf instead of a Blitzer. Generally my Line Elves have more important things to worry about skill wise though.

I’m 8 games into a 10 game season with a starting team. 6 of my games so far have been against high Str teams (1 Nurgle, 2 Chaos, 3 Orc). I have no Dauntless and have handily won 5 of those 6 games, tying the other. So you obviously don’t NEED Dauntless to be successful. I may pick some up eventually, but it isn’t a priority for me in my early games.

We're they running the ball with their str4 players? Orc have some problems with this, but the Chaos teams can handily do so.

We're they running a good 2-1 grind strategy?

I think experience is a great indicator of the value of different choices. However it's important to consider the quality and tactics of your opponents. Especially now that the video game is out. I'm seeing advice related to how things have worked against the computer. And from the sounds of things the computer is a pretty unimpressive opponent even on hard.

If you opponents used Str4 ball carriers and tried to set up a good 2-1 grind, I'd be interested in hearing something like a play by play of the game(s).

[Khail]

I’m definitely not playing against the computer… this in Thunderbowl (see sig for link), in a 20 person division. I’ve had one pushover of a Chaos coach, and the Nurgle coach wasn’t the greatest. All 3 of the Orc coaches were good, though one of them had a pretty beat up team when I got to him.

The other Chaos coach was very good, and had a 5/5/4/9 Chaos warrior that he used as a ball carrier once. I was still able to knock it free with some Guard and an assist. He was down a player or two and out of position at that point, and I was able to engineer a one die block with a blitzer, knocking it lose with a reroll.

Keep in mind that these are all “young” teams in their first 10 games. I’m not saying that dauntless shouldn’t be taken, just that there’s other priorities early in development.

[sunnyside]

So far Dark Elf teams have proven the lowest threat to my Norse team, and I think a lack of dauntless is a cause for this.

Often they have to simply ignore my front line instead of getting hits, and as the game progressess they simply have a very hard time dealing with a troll and especially the mobile Ulfs.

I don't know so much that I'd take it on a witch elf.

Still, if you aren't willing to bring the fight the the opponent, at least in specific locations, I wonder why one would be playing DE instead of high elves.

[Lamoron]

High & Dark elves are very different teams now, with the similarities shared by all the elf teams ofcourse. I love Dark and have three teams with different approaches to the game, and exactly 0 High Elf teams with more than two games to them.

Main thing is, that Dark cannot take the fight to the enemy though many people think they can. They have some excellent offensive players in the Assassins now, and they have four Blitzers which start with Block (but have no better skill access than Linemen), but they cannot take the fight to anyone, that any other Elf team couldn't do equally well or better.

Dauntless is a great skill, but it's hard to figure out were to put it.

* Witches have the downside of Frenzy, and Armour 7. When rolling that many dice that can fail, against players that often have Mighty Blow, your life will be short and messy.

* Runners are not designed for offensive duties, and are AV7 as well.

* Assassins would be wasting their Stab skill, which is often worth using instead of Dauntless anyway, on the AV 8 Big Guys or +ST guys. They are also AV7.

* Blitzers are potential candidates. They could be buildt for taking on the opposition, and honestly a Block, Dodge, Dauntless, Pro player could be a suprise for your opponent, but there's so many parts on a Dark elf team you need them to fill already.

* Leaving Linemen. When you're full up on positionals, you have room for one Linemen on the field. He will need to cover all the utility skills, but you could build one of the reserves for the task. I guess it's a matter of taste, but I rarely find it worth it, to have a single player able to take on strenght players, as he's never able to be everywhere needed, and I'd rather not be dependant on it.

/Lamoron