Depressing Nufflings

[Gallows Bait]

Thanks for the feedback Viajero, its much appreciated. I guess I'm struggling to use my mobility - MV6 on a line elf still doesn't seem to outpace much and I have a habit of avoiding dodges as I know the rate of double 1s hurts.

That and I just struggle with the concept of kicking off and not really going anywhere while I wait for the opponant to move and somehow make mistakes.

Defense is still a problem in losing numbers, but there seems little I can do. Its a rare kick off that I won't end up down at least 1 KO or Cas from my LOS and to cover the width of the pitch in columns needs at least 8-10 elves depending on how mobile the opposition is. I might have to take the reserves and live with the TV it gives away just to help survive defense.

I'm tending to find that once one column takes a hit it opens up the rest also, and dodging back then costs far more space on the field and gets more risky.

For example:

A......B
C......D

With two columns here, if player A gets blitzed and hurt, it will typically leave space for my opponant to approach B from the left side, marking B and D and forcing both to dodge back, but also needing me to move back at least 2 or 3 squares to stay out of tacklezones.

I've found a lot of this from teams with strength 4 players where they know I can't simply bash them off of B with an assist.

Once that happens it seems to open the hole for a player to push through and score.

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Gallows Bait

Thanks for the feedback Viajero, its much appreciated. I guess I'm struggling to use my mobility - MV6 on a line elf still doesn't seem to outpace much and I have a habit of avoiding dodges as I know the rate of double 1s hurts..

What are you possibly talking about! 4 ST3 catchers to the tune of MA8 and 2 blitzers to the tune of MA7!! those are the ones that wshould do the outpacing. MA6 linos do the screening. Thats more than half of the team with MA7 or more. I like woodies a lot for obvious reasons but is rare indeed the turn I move all my linos the full 7 tiles.

Originally Posted by Gallows Bait

That and I just struggle with the concept of kicking off and not really going anywhere while I wait for the opponant to move and somehow make mistakes..

Lol, yes, that requires a bit of discipline and self control... "... be water my friend..."

But it is not about your opponent making mistakes, it is about forcing him to do them. I.e. if you move out of marking and withdraw a little spreading your elves you are actually forcing him to use 2 or mor epieces to be able to blitz one of yours therefore you are forcing him to open gaps elsewhere. If on top of that your opponent makes a mistake so much the better!

Originally Posted by Gallows Bait

Defense is still a problem in losing numbers, but there seems little I can do. Its a rare kick off that I won't end up down at least 1 KO or Cas from my LOS and to cover the width of the pitch in columns needs at least 8-10 elves depending on how mobile the opposition is. I might have to take the reserves and live with the TV it gives away just to help survive defense.

I'm tending to find that once one column takes a hit it opens up the rest also, and dodging back then costs far more space on the field and gets more risky.

For example:

A......B
C......D

With two columns here, if player A gets blitzed and hurt, it will typically leave space for my opponant to approach B from the left side, marking B and D and forcing both to dodge back, but also needing me to move back at least 2 or 3 squares to stay out of tacklezones.

I've found a lot of this from teams with strength 4 players where they know I can't simply bash them off of B with an assist.

Once that happens it seems to open the hole for a player to push through and score.

Elves can reasonably defend even with 7 players or even less... it all comes down to timing!

I mean, if you kick and you get 2 or more KO´s or worst in the first couple of turns... that´s high variance! not much you can do about it.

Now if you get the same number of KO´s and injured BUT spread over the 8 turn drive of your opponent then that is more normal and a whole lot different story as this means you probably had 9 or 10 players to defend for a big part of the drive and hence you were able to stall his progress.

If you end up the drive with only 6 players standing, say 4 KO and 1 injured, but your opponent did not score then that is a good and normal result for a proper elf defense.

And taht is why elves need a bench, 2 replacement at least is what I aim for, so you are reasonably equipped in your own drive.

The line defense situation you describe is the standard one! One of your players get KO, injured or stunned (unusable for 1 turn) then teh blitzing opponent piece moves in. Well, that is what it is supposed to happen. You just need to dodge back one tile ahead of that piece or blitz it (including consideration for 1D blitzes) if at all possible.

In any event it seems there is something you are not considering: The line defense typically only works in combination with proper ball carrier harassment. Pro elves are very good at it because of the AV8 sidestepping blitzers. If you mark the carrier, your opponent typically wont be able to blitz your line! (depends on the cage disposiiton and if he still have players in contact with your blitzer etc). If possible try not to ignore the ball, threatening it (almost) always pays.

With woodies and AV7 marking the carrier can be a risky proposition so one needs to carefully consider your opponent skills and cage disposition. If a strong retaliation is possible then mark the carrier with Linos if possible and keep your WD for other tasks and screened. Unless AG5 WD, use leap sparingly and typically only as a last resort, i.e. to avoid a TD next turn for example, or to avoid 4+ dodges out from a Tackle opponent etc.

[Gallows Bait]

Looks like my high elves will be needing those catchers much sooner than I've been buying them to increase my mobility. I'd been trying to get skills on the linemen before I buy catchers, but the speed looks like it should make a difference.

Time to try a new roster I think.

That and get a deeper bench sooner.

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Gallows Bait

Looks like my high elves will be needing those catchers much sooner than I've been buying them to increase my mobility. I'd been trying to get skills on the linemen before I buy catchers, but the speed looks like it should make a difference.

Time to try a new roster I think.

That and get a deeper bench sooner.

Yeah, but that is one of the reasons why pro elves or high elves are so challenging specially at low TV levels. At low TV or at the start of a tourney typically you wont have the funds to maintain/have them all (I usually start only with 2 catchers so to get to 3 RR with pros), and the typically pro elf team needs some time to build the cash and the skills to protect them! Once your team grows and stabilizes with a few Dodge and Block/Wrestle catchers then you are in business!

[Thanatos]

I know how you feel OP.
My Crunch Cup IV seems to have been a long string of Nufflings, with a few glimmers of sunlight here and there.
But last season I did really well with a Khemri team so this might be balancing things out.

Originally Posted by Barninho

... getting too caught up in the rolls and stats (especially the negative ones)

Yeah I get caught doing this.
I know in my head that 4+ with a reroll should work 75% of the time.
But it seems to fail at least half the time.

But that is an illusion, a perception bias, as we tend to not pay attention to rolls that succeed when they are supposed to.

Its like a 6+ has as much chance of succeeding as a 2+ does of failing.
But we seem to fail 2+ all the time and 6+ never works.
But then we don't attempt 6+ as often as we try 2+.

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Gallows Bait

That and get a deeper bench sooner.

Remeber though that a bench is usually good in tourney or private league play, but not necessarily in a TV based matchmaking system as the Open Leagues (Nagaroth, FOL etc) where your bench TV is probably giving your TV based matched opponent some additional skills...

[Coach]

Originally Posted by bobman

I actually had to say the only reason he beat me was some ridiculous luck on outrageous dice rolls cause I outplayed him all match.

Just keep doing this, you will win more than you lose in the long run and that is what it is about. Anyone can lose in a one off match regardless of the teams or how well you play.

[RogueThirteen]

One perspective I take in any game like Blood Bowl is to assume you're more filling the roll of the coach then the entity of the team. This means that you can call and orchestrate beautiful plays and you can train your players well, but there's only so much that's in your power. Sometimes your players are going to commit errs or blunders and sometimes the opponent's players are going to pull off maneuvers that could make a Top-25 highlight reel.

To me, I think this adds to the enjoyment as it alleviates some of the psychological stress or pressure to not mess anything up -- great coaching will produce wonderful management of space (position on the pitch), time, and risk. Beyond that, the actual actions are up to the players themselves and not either of the coaches. One way to look at something is that your opponent got really lucky (ie a way of saying he or she didn't necessarily deserve to win). Another way to look at this is that some of the players on the opposing team dug deep and really pulled out some beautiful performances.

Helping keep a loose narrative around the game and help keep it fun and enjoyable even when you're suffering a bad loss. I particularly enjoyed the above poster's story about how his Skaven Thrower began to start choking on key plays, so he was reassigned to LOS duty where he was killed and then the team partied -- this kind of outlook, I think, will help keep the game a positive experience no matter what.


Additionally, playing table-top (if an option) might be a great break from Cyanide. In a table-top setting, I've found opponents to be really friendly, supportive, and interesting as you can socialize with them for the three hours you're playing. Online, opponents tend to become these anonymous call signs that you can only interact with through a text box (or mic, I suppose). Not to say online coaches are any less friendly, supportive, or interesting but that doesn't really come through in the same way.

[Gallows Bait]

Well, I've struggled on long enough.

After an impressively bad run in CCV and a week in blood bowl that has included such highlights as 5 dead in 3 days and two games that saw my teams reduced to 4 or less players on the pitch by half time..

I am taking a break. Nuffle is telling me Blood Bowl just isn't my game.

Might check back in a while, but for now I have better things to spend my time on than watching my teams get butchered.

Good luck to everyone left in CCV and good luck for CCVI - not sure if I'll be back for it but I'll see how I'm feeling come sign ups. Right now I just need to do something else.

[Netsmurf]

Good luck and I hope to see you back in action again