[Dwarf] Help me learn to beat dwarves

[G20]

Right, so this is probably a rather pathetic thread. With that out of the way, I would appreciate some help from the brain trust here. I started playing earlier this year, and at this point I'd put myself in the "not terrible" class of player. I can give at least a decent account of myself versus most teams. When I have to play dwarves in MM I'm inclined to just concede. If I play against them in a league I try to foul my best players out of the game early and hope the other guy won't take too long on his turns. There must be a better way. Obviously, I didn't start out that way but after many attempts at more legitimate play, this is what I've resorted to. I suppose that I could pick teams that match up better against them, but I am too pig headed to do that. I want to play humans and sometimes vampires. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. The general dwarf "strategy" seems to be moving all available pieces into contact with mine. How do I counteract that?

[nufflehatesme]

this is from the humie perspective as i dont play vamps.
kick, every chance u get. getting 2ko rolls at half time is huge.
spread your los on kickoff. no st 4 means the dwarves have to commit 6 players for 2d blocks. if your opponent only has 11-12 players, blitz every chance with your killer against their slaYers and runners. 3rd choice is blitzers. do not give away free blocks, unless absolutely necessary. if its a push on your block dont follow up.
keep 2 squares between players so guard has no effect. dwarves are crap players singularly. it is when they are grouped up they are strong.
if they have set up a strong drive try to pick off stragglers, foul em if u have the numbers. if u get em to score before t8 count that as a successful defensive drive.
if you stop their score altogether the game is yours.
stopping the 1st score isnt as important as keeping 11 players for the second half.
if u manage to outnumber dwarves then the second half becomes a cake walk.

on offense, be patient. i'd advise against setting a cage up on los 1st turn. stay spread and loose. switching flanks without commiting can stretch their defense, and make em burn rerolls on gfi's. if the dwarf player does overcommit to a flank a switch can see an easy td scored, as dwarves cant recover defensive formations in one turn easily. a catcher or an ag boosted blitzer make good runners here due to the extra speed.

if u want to send someone deep for throwing threat, send a lino as a catcher will be minced before long, unless he can avoid the tackle players (unlikely)

in summary, the most important thing is patience on offence. the dwarves slow speed can see them woefully out of position after 3-4 turns of cat and mouse. when they are out of position it is normally a simple matter of setting up a screen and run for glory.

against a good dwarf positional player the cat and mouse game becomes a hell of a lot more interesting.
hope that helps

EDIT
the ogre! dont put him on los, but use him to mark 2 dwarves. that gives u a man advantage right there. u dont have to block with him either, just tie up the blockers and he is doing his job

[coachman]

As humans use your speed, spread him out and pull him out of position. Screen rather than cage. Pull the play to one side then switch and outrun him.

On D kick deep and stay in front of him. You dont have to take the ball just slow his already slow players down. If you do this well he will have to try something crazy around turn 6+. Keep 1 guy deep to score incase this desperation play screws up.


You have speed 8 players so can 1 turn if you need to but can 2 turn score comfortably.

[Jasper]

As Humans? Good luck, the odds are stacked against you! Dwarves are one of the best teams, while Humans are barely a tier 1 team, and match up poorly against Dwarves on top of that.

Simplest thing is to play Orcs instead. Get Strong Arm on a Thrower and work a bit of a passing game and they're somewhat like Humans (okay, only a little!), but they have the edge over Dwarves. Yeah, I know, not what you want to hear. ;-)


If you're hell bent on Humans the key is to string the dwarves out, and concentrate on clearing him off you when he marks in. On offense keep the field spread so you can switch flanks and more readily find 2d blocks -- don't get boxed in! -- and look for opportunities to sneak a Catcher by when a Tackler can't reach them.

Skill-wise, get all the Guard you can, of course. A bit of Frenzy helps, as the more potent sideline threat can draw them into over committing and let you you outmaneuver them. Don't ever take Dodge, and instead pickup Sidestep or especially Jump Up. Get Wrestle on your Linemen, and Fend.

Dwarves often like to play with a small team, so some judicious use of Dirty Player can really set them back as Dwarves don't play well short players. Get a deep bench and stomp those stunties when they're down and surrounded!


Play to tie. Use your maneuverability to score on offense in ~4 turns so they can't easily answer. On defense form up into columns and try to run the clock out, but if it doesn't go well don't be afraid to let their cage plow by you while you isolate and curb stomp the inevitable MV 4 stragglers. Look for an opportunity to surge the ball and force them score early if they come back to defend, but otherwise just seek methodical revenge.

If they mess up and are forced to score early, or you're able to stop them on defense you have a good chance to win. Otherwise, a draw is a moral victory in such a lopsided matchup!

[Lebe666]

Get more Guard...

And you should have a Wrestle/Strip Ball. Any attack with 1 die = very high chance of ball scattering.

[Barmution]

Originally Posted by Lebe666

And you should have a Wrestle/Strip Ball. Any attack with 1 die = very high chance of ball scattering.

Actually, just Wrestle will usally be more cost effective due to dwarves most often use their Runners with Sure Hands as carriers.

[Lebe666]

True against Dwarves... but then you need to use it against all types of races later. If they are lucky they might injure the runners or isolate them... which means the Dwarf might attempt to run with other players.

[sunnyside]

Well the easy road, and I suspect many of these posters would agree with me, is to go for a claw+MB+PO team and build.

Vampires tend to have trouble beating a lot of things. They are deliberately meant to be a challenging team. They have a lot of cagebreaking options. But those thralls are really squishy.

Humans are lower in the tiers as well, though to a much lesser degree in most cases. But against dwarves their inability to safely dodge away while being unlikely to win the bashing war of attrition puts them in a bad position. Potentially a very bad position.


In either case kick can help, especiall with humans. Try and swarm his ball carrier in the backfield. Sidestep and diving tackle help here.

Fend can be nice to counter frenzy, but more importantly PO. Also it gets your guys lose and moving, which reduces the number of hits they take and lets you use your high movement (possibly leaving some dwarves in the dust for a little while).

Oh, and while I'm not used to MM play, I'd encouraging having a deep bench. This lets you spring back after drives.

I think in regular league things are a little better, as winning the game while having your TV go down is still one step closer to a bowl game. If you're just playing to have fun and build a team dwarves can having you "losing" even if you do manage to win.

[Flanks]

Originally Posted by G20

Right, so this is probably a rather pathetic thread. With that out of the way, I would appreciate some help from the brain trust here. I started playing earlier this year, and at this point I'd put myself in the "not terrible" class of player. I can give at least a decent account of myself versus most teams. When I have to play dwarves in MM I'm inclined to just concede. If I play against them in a league I try to foul my best players out of the game early and hope the other guy won't take too long on his turns. There must be a better way. Obviously, I didn't start out that way but after many attempts at more legitimate play, this is what I've resorted to. I suppose that I could pick teams that match up better against them, but I am too pig headed to do that. I want to play humans and sometimes vampires. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. The general dwarf "strategy" seems to be moving all available pieces into contact with mine. How do I counteract that?

Dwarfs like to defend in formations, normally double lines close enough together to make dodging through a massive risk, but if you blitz the front line they avoid being put in 2 tackle zones by the blitzer. This means they can just reform the double line next turn.

The way to combat it, in my opinion, is to switch sides constantly. Don't cage up and try to bash down field, that is precisely what they want. Instead, form up on one side, then next turn switch sides. If they try to defend in a semi circle you have them, because the dwarfs which go around the side will be out of range to switch to the other side on defence.

[Captain Thorrek]

I use what Flank suggested with my skaven team all the time. If you can get your opponents players to chase the ball carrier, you switch to the other wing and head downfield. Dwarfs may be strong, but they're slow, and will have problems even catching up to human teams if you work it right.

Two throwers really helps with this strategy, especially when you understand anyone can catch, just your catchers are better at it. If he sees you're willing to toss to anyone who's open, his players will have to spread themselves out, and it'll make things more difficult for him. Don't forget to foul, Nuffle doesn't love a dirty cheat, but definitely hates them less. Dwarf players are expensive, especially his slayers: dauntless is a one way street and when coupled with frenzy you can lead the slayer to the honorable death he always wanted. (beats "throw a rock")

The last suggestion I could say is hire a dwarf team also, or have a friend with a dwarf team switch sides, you play dwarf, and he play human. One of the best ways to get a feeling for the team's weaknesses is to play that team. If you just happen to play the cyanide blood bowl, make one of several teams... still costs you the same cash as just the one.