Help with a passing team

[Sudonym]

So I'm getting back into Blood Bowl, and as fun as bashing people is, I'd like to try a passing team. Preferable a team that can pass, but has a backbone, like Norse, or Orcs, or something. So anyone that's willing to help a newbie out with team selection, development, and playcalling is definitely appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[Nikolai II]

Passing teams with a backbone is either orc (no great receivers, but lots of backbone), Amazon (until the enemies get tackle, Amazons have lots of backbone) and Vampires (who are as tricky to play as .. something very tricky)

Norse are an option as well, but they lack a backbone. They are great at bashing first, though. Dwarves and Dark Elves are the two last reasonable passing teams. Dwarven runners do have pass access and the runners and blitzers can receive with fair hope of success, and Dark Elves have 4 blitzers and also runners with pass access.

Oh, and humans, of course. Most humans have a backbone. It's only the catchers that are somewhat short.

Skavens and the other Elves can also play (need also play) reasonably bashy, but of them only High Elves have any staying power.

(If you play tabletop you can also consider Chaos Pact and Underworld. Slann do also get a passing play on doubles, but that one is mostly "get HMP")

Finally Khemri also have passing access. But for them it is even more of a desperation play than for dwarves.

[Sudonym]

Humans was my first thought, but I hate that the catchers only have ST 2. Norse was another thought, but they're fairly slow. They can hit the other team, sure, but nobody starts with catch (Though the runners have access to it). Amazons can do it, too, but I'm less a fan of Dodge than of Block. Orcs, I guess, though I think only the Goblins have agility access. So any of those could work, with problems.

Dwarves and Khemri, though, would be really amusing to see pass the ball

[Kaz]

Can't really say orcs are a passing team, at least not to start. Maybe in later development with a strong arm/accurate thrower and a blitzer with +AG you could do it pretty reliably, but not in the beginning. Dark elves can pass and hit well (with good positioning) having four players with block and have a much more reliable passing game. High elves can really throw the ball well too. I am presuming you don't want to have any AV7 like the other elves, though you were talking about using Norse who tend to end up on the KO or Injury box a LOT.

[Sudonym]

True. Norse get hurt when they get hit, but at least they're better at hitting than most Elves are. And really, I want a team that can throw, with as much AV 8 as possible, which would seem to indicate the High Elves. I guess I've just got dreams of someone like Orcs or Undead or something bashing people to open up the pass, rather than running down the field.

I guess I'm asking for too much, as it was. I don't really mind getting hit; everyone gets hit. But I'd like to be able to hit dudes when I need to, and still have a good passing game. Maybe Dark Elves, for the 4 Blitzers? Or Amazon, for the Dodge/Block Blitzers. Dark Elves seems a bit better, because of the better stats, but Amazons are cheaper, and have players that start with Catch.

[Snap Wilson]

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "backbone."

High Elves combine a great passing game with resilence, ST3 on all positions, AV8 on every position except for Catchers, who can skill up with Blodge on Normal rolls.

There are many AG3 races with positionals who start with passing skills, but that doesn't necessarily make them great passing teams. You really have to throw SPPs at them to make them reliable through the air, and skills won't fix the fact that most of them are comparatively slow. Humans are about as good as you're going to find, and their Catchers are brutal.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want an AG3 team with passing, you're likely going to have to work to make it a passing team, probably at the expense of more general skills.

[Sudonym]

I figured that was going to be unavoidable, since the only teams with passers, catchers, AG4, and AV3 most places is the High Elves.

I'm thinking I'm going to go Amazons. They've got Throwers, Catchers, and great Blitzers. AG3 is a set-back, but I'll have to reconcile myself to running when I can, and keeping the pass in the back pocket.

[Nikolai II]

Dark Elves are actually better armored than High Elves, as long as you ignore the assassins and stop at zero or one witch.

High Elves do have more passing skills to start with - on the other hand, as soon as a runner has gotten pass, you're basically home free with dark elves as well. (Keep a team RR at hand for the catch, but it is a 2+ if unmarked..)

High Elves have 4 catchers with AV7, as Darkies you don't have that speed, but you have 4 Blitzers with AV8 that are almost as fast, and a horde of reasonably fast linemen who also catch at 2+. So if you want a team that does what you say: "Run with the ball until it is stopped, bash up a small channel and pass for the goal", while also having maximum AV 8, then Darkies is probably your bet.

But if you don't have team rerolls (and Dark elves will start with only 2) then Amazons might be it. AG 3 + inbuilt reroll has approximately the same chance to succeed with anything as AG 4 with no reroll. (It is when elves have skills or a RR to spare that they start shining)

[Viajero]

Amazons is not going to be very rewarding if you looking for a solid passing game. Also their backbone is questionable whenever you start going over 1300 TV and MB/Tackle is quite common.

Given your requirement of backbone I d suggest Dark Elves not only because of their AG4 obviously but also because of their AV8, four Block blitzers and frenzied witches. Now, thats some elfie backbone. The fact that Dark Elves is currently the most represented race at the OCC Div1 tends to confirm they have both durability and winning power.

Although they do not start with the "pass" skill, Dark Elves can be developped to have perfectly good passers. And any elf can pass proficiently anyways. So that would take care of your "Passing" needs.

High Elves are the other obvious choice, but they have less backbone than Darkies specially at start with just two Blitzers and no equivalent to dodged/frenzied Witches. Also they lack lots of skills at start (no dodge at all) wich makes them quite frustrating to play with at the beginning.

Also their theoretical HiE speed advantage compared to Darkies is not that big really. Darkies can field up to 8 players MA7, although in reality you tend to see only 6 or 7 tops in any given game. High elves can in theory field 4 MA8 players and 2MA7, but I rarely see all 4 catchers at once. Most likely just 2, 3 tops and the 2 MA7 blitzers. The rest is all MA6 as with Darkies.

All in all, if you prefer to have backbone in addition to a reliable AG4 passing game, Darkies is imho probably the best choice from low TV´s.

The second option is to give up altogether in AG4 and look at AG3 options with a good passing game. From that point of view Humans are imho your best bet. The AV8 and the ability to access all sets of skills, including Strength gives you a much better backbone than any Elf race. Plus fast MA7 blitzers and MA8 catchers will typically give you a much better passing game than average MA6 Amazons. Last but not least past the 1300 TV humans will give you much better durabilty than Amazons. Amazons, much like Norse, are like Blade Runners, flames that shine twice as bright but only half as long...

Regarding your concern for ST2 catchers, I d say that is a relative weakness that is by far compensated by their MA8. As someone wise here says often: Speed kills.

[Fred Bucket]

I agree on D-Elvies as a best option.
AG4 on all players means you always have a passing option and with 4 blitzers, nuffle might get kind and give you a + str or double for some xtra hitting power on them