MB Claw n high TV

[donkeyjon]

Originally Posted by Netsmurf

The lack of experience is a very desiding factor. In our superbowl a very experience coach went with rookie norse instead of his evil evil evil Chaos Dwarfs (allready winner of the tourney once). Now the bastard has learnt how to use Morg and all the other evil inducements that he gets. He has a draw and 2 wins and a slim chance of a playoff spot, and he has been playing with +800k inducements almost all his games

I will defer to the preponderance of evidence. Team balance is not the issue, but coach experience likely is. That having been said, it is important to let new coaches have a few matches that are far less disparate in team value so that they can build a team up without having it massacred.

[Netsmurf]

We have 3 leagues in out TT. The superbowl were no one is spared and the joy of a dead opponant is great.

The Mudbowl: All teams that start there must be rookies, so can only play one season there.

Free Fun for All: Any of the 24 teams you want to play and the chance to build up to enter the superbowl. Very used when the active coaches have played the alloved games in the other leagues.

This works like a charm and really makes it easy to go after a team, that nobody thinks should win anymore, be it that they are stats heavy elfs or claw POMB´ers. Nobody has ever won the league two years in a row so far. League play for the win

[Etheric]

Originally Posted by Netsmurf

And Claws are not overpowered, if any skill is then its Piling on. Have never had any problems in league games with claws and in TT I play orcs.

That I do find a bit wierd unless you are basing your stuff on something other than playing with orcs, or you are talking about MB/claw/PO not just MB/PO vs MB/Claw ?

From double skulls inj stats ECBBL - Injury Statistics

Claw + MB vs av 9
Pen 58.33%
Stun 27.08%
Ko 16.90%
Inj 14.35%

MB + PO av vs av 9
Pen 47.84%
Stun 16.37%
KO 17.30%
Inj 14.17%

So claw completely dominates as it gives roughly the same chance of getting a player off the pitch but keeps you on your feet. The 10% extra stuns is nice too.

MB + PO is nasty vs AV7 (and by extension MB/claw/PO is nasty vs anyone) but as it puts you down I don't find MB + PO that useful vs AV9. Rerolling a stun is good, but rerolling the AV roll is a bit risky.

Just for the record
MB/claw/PO av
Pen 82.64%
Stun 24.19%
KO 31.67%
Inj 26.77%

Taking the scores (inj chance + half KO chance vs av 9)

none .049
MB .104
claw .122
PO .117
MB/claw .228
claw/PO .263
MB/PO .228
MB/claw/PO .426

Every skill pretty much doubles the score. For sure claw is a lot nastier than PO vs av 9, as each skill doubles the score pretty much and only PO has a downside. Clearly the last doubling is the nastiest one as you are now doubling what is already quite large chance to get a player off the pitch, but that is a function of having all three skills rather than one being better than the others.

If a team gets to much kill kill kill, then the other coaches just devote a few games to handle the killers.

For me that is just a sign that everyone recognises something is not working then gets together to fix the problem. And that sort of solution does not work outside of a TT environment really, unless it is a very small online league.

[Netsmurf]

PO also works on AV 5-7, thus being much more powerfull than Claws as they only operate at AV 8-10, were PO still does its thing. Also the chance to reroll the injury roll on the frail AV players are boosting PO way beyond claws in my oppinion. And what are the stats on AV8? That is the most common AV out there.

[nufflehatesme]

agree with netsmurf about piling on. i am pretty sure it is more effective against av 8 then claws+mb too.

as to my thoughts on claw.......
an orc team with block on most players, guard and mb on half dozen players, and tackle and piling on sprinkled on blitzers, is much harder to face for the majority of teams out there then a claw stack team, and pretty easy to establish after 20-30 games. same could be said of dwarves loaded with guard.

sure its a bad matchup for orcs and dwarves, but it is their only one! (nurgle and chaos at high tv) orcs and dwarves i feel are also more responsible for ripping apart hybrid and ag teams than chaos (more tackle, more guard, more mb, better av than chaos to survive retaliation)

personally i am glad their is a mechanism to increase the t/o in high av teams. the game is about the constant development of your team, not get 11 lvl 5 players.