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[Godfather]

Okay, so hear is the quick overview. I played Bloodbowl a few times years ago and liked it. I was excited when I saw the pc game so I just picked it up and have played about 7matches.

My question is this? What team/style of play most closely resembles actual football. As much as I am a rpg fan/gamer, I am just as big of a football fan. So far I have played High Elves as the passing game is fun, but certainly tough for a beginner. I was thinking of moving to wood elves. I have done quite a bit of research to understand the game mechanics, cage, cage breaking, etc... But I have not seen a ton of passing game insight.


Any thoughts?

[Purgatory]

The general consensus regarding passing plays seems to be that they involve too many risks.

The AG4-teams (the elves, that is) are generally mobile enough to just run the ball to the end zone, maybe with a hand-off somewhere in the middle, and the rest of the lot are simply too bad at throwing and catching the ball to make it worthwile.

However, if you do like the balls-to-the-walls, passing-and-scoring-in-two-turns playstyle then I think the Woodies could suit you just fine. If you manage to roll a double (for strong arm) or even better, a +AG on a Thrower, then you have a player who with Accurate can throw a Long Bomb on a 3+ roll. Also, the Woodies' Thrower has a pretty high MA, which means that often you don't even have to make anything longer than a Long Pass. Couple this with the very fast Catchers of the Woodies and you have a team certainly capable of performing passing plays.

I'd build my WE Thrower like Coach suggests in his article on them:

Normal: Accurate, Safe Throw, Catch / Sure Hands, Sure Feet, Dodge
Doubles: Strong Arm

Though I think I'd pick Dodge before Sure Feet or even before Catch/Sure Hands, since even though he's not meant to play defensive drives and get knocked over, we're talking about Wood Elves and AV7 here, and there will be matches where you have to set him up on defense.


All of this said, I think High Elves can make for great passers too, they have their good Throwers and Catchers, and the higher AV of the team means that a High Elf Thrower is more likely to survive into the later development stages than a Wood Elf one.

[Etheric]

Well the absolute best passing game is the plain elves. (also known as pro elves for fluff reasons, and just calling them elves gets confusing).

You start with

2 catchers
2 blitzers
1 thrower
6 line elves
3 RR

And you have the best receivers in the game, and a decent passer.

If you want a real passing game get dodge and block on the catchers and accurate and safe throw on the thrower then you basically cannot be stopped on offense, apart from the dreaded 1 reroll 1.

The problem is then you can set your opponent up for a 2-1 grind where you score quickly and they score on T8 and T16 (i.e. just before half time and the last turn of hte match).

Both wood elves and high elves are a bit tricky to start with as the players are quite expensive so either you have to start wiht not many rerolls (which is nasty) or not many positionals (which makes playing a passing game more difficult).

It can be dangerous as well as you have to make quite a few 2+ rolls to score, and if goes wrong you will be in a real mess.

I worked out some stats a while back, but with Nerves of Steel on the catchers (meaning they catch the ball on a 2+ with a catch reroll almost all the time) and safe throw on the thrower you can always pass the ball reasonably safety and if you have a catcher on their feet within range of the end zone then they will score a heck of a lot of the time. (block, dodge and sidestep as taken skills mean it is a lot easier for the guys to keep on their feet). I worked through the stats with different combinations a while back and it is scary how high the chances are.

The problem is of course defense as you can get splatted all over the pitch if you are not careful. Learning to use the combination of ag 4 and av 7 properly takes practice (took me quite some time to get it right, and even then sometimes it can go horribly wrong : watch the replay of my elf team against Dreamy's Necro team in this seasons orca cola for example, painful.)

[Purgatory]

I agree with Etheric, but the Pro Elf Thrower has lower MA (making for extra GFI rolls or the odd longer pass) and one can't compare the Pro Elf Blitzers to the Wood Elf Wardancers. Also, the Pro Elf Linepeople are slower than their Wood Elf counterpart, which means that they are more difficult to score with (and thus skill up).

That said, their Catchers are indeed brilliant, and by far the best Catchers in the game, if a bit expensive and fragile. Not starting with either Block or Dodge will get them killed or seriously injured into retirement, if one isn't careful with them.

[Etheric]

Yeah sure pro elf catchers are the stars and you really rely on them. You need to get a new one to 16 spp for block/wrestle and dodge as soon as possible which is normally not that hard. My current season in the OCC thoguh I lost 3 catchers, 2 dead 1 I sacked iwth a niggle. At that point the team became a lot less fun. 1 catcher is too much of a target.

It does depend what you want. I would say pro elves give you the most "US Football" style of offense. You push your thrower back screened by linemen then you get your receivers open and pass them the ball.. Normally it is a combination of a pass and a handoff to move the ball the length of the field more or less.

With wood elves the "standard" starting roster is 2 wardancers 1 catcher and 8 line elves with 2 rerolls. I tried the high positionals one with 2 wardancers, 3 catchers 1 thrower 5 line elves and 1 reroll and it is tough as anything to play. You do get a lot of skill rerolls, but you have to be really careful what you do.

Note Flix who is one of the best woodelf coaches around does not use throwers AT ALL. He uses a running/handoff style game with his catchers. He plays them more like slightly weaker, slightly faster dark elves.

The point being that a straight passing game is not really optimal with wood elves, you run the ball with quick/short passes and build any thrower more for going to get the ball than long passes.

As wood elf catchers are str 2 then you can't have too many on a team (starting a drive with all 4 against a bash team can leave you badly down in strength). Playing 4 catchers as a pro elf team is pretty normal. With high elves as the linos are av 8 and the catchers are av 7 then maybe you don't play them all either. (and with high elves normally you start similar to wood elves with 2 blitzers 1 catcher 8 line elves and 3 RR, but again you can take one less RR (two in this case) and get more positionals. Going down to two RR is a lot less painful than going down to 1 though so it is still pretty viable.

I think the game most resembles a kick off return than a play from scrummage though. You have blockers out infrount who create a screen and a running lane and have the guy with the ball run through it, with the occasional short pass or handoff.

I do think if you want to hang back with a thrower and pass with a dedicated passer then pro elves do it best. High elves have a similar ethos I guess, but nerves of steel is a great skill on a catcher. Wood elves and especially dark elves are better suited to a more quick pass handoff style. For wood elves it is important to get a few skills on your line elves and not rely on your catchers so much.

Anyway let us know how you get on.

[Nikolai II]

I don't know if my opponents are no good, but I'm having good results with a 4 catcher, 2 thrower, 2 wd, 4 lino, tree woodie team, and I do pass a lot. (Only setting up 3 catcher on defense though, unless I've got players out for the rest of the game in which case I play what I got )

If I should try to make it "football" like I'd probably drop one of the throwers, though. Put the thrower far back, two catchers midfield and two catchers deep. Run up and pass one of your close catchers, he runs up and hands off to the scoring guy (which is either a lineman that is also waiting around deep if your have rerolls left, or one of the catchers if you are out of rerolls)

And yes, on defense is where two throwers suddenly start shining, because one of them will always be close by when you manage to knock the ball down.
Pick up - pass to hovering catcher, run away, score.

[Nikolai II]

Originally Posted by Etheric

watch the replay of my elf team against Dreamy's Necro team in this seasons orca cola for example, painful.)

If you go look for it, it was in Division 6D, Season 11, and my team was actually Undead, not Necro.

But indeed, horrible casualties were handed out, and I am wondering if Pro Elves should not play more like Skaven after all. Less stalling, more stealing the ball or forcing fast scores.

Or rather - Use both blitzers to mark the ballcarrier, to force the blitz to be used to protect the ball instead of advancing the cage. At least I think that is how you did when you kept beating me. Of course, those lost games might have helped me win that one. (Or it was all down to casualty luck. Make your pick )

[Godfather]

This is great feedback, thanks for the help. It's nice that their are a few different directions I could go in.