[Tactics] So how do I avoid an Elf rush after the kick ?

[Lebe666]

I played against some woodies and they just kept creeping all over my field. Since I had 3 men in the skirmish line I didn't have enough to make 2 men columns to close the field. They kicked the ball and got that result where they have a move. They promptly knocked out 1 guy mid field and streamed in.

How do you avoid these elf tactics from working when playing a bashy team ?

[Gallows Bait]

The standard ziggeraut formations are the only straight forward way to spread tackle zones across the pitch to prevent them walking straight in.

It forces them to blitz one of the four lead positions to open a hole in your line, and through your choice of players in those spots you can help to control that.

So putting a flesh golem or black orc on the flanks, for example would reduce the ease they have to open that it, forcing them closer to centre in most cases, for example.

Ultimately most times they will push through, so keep your formation deeper and more spread out than you would against less nimble teams.

Other than that, really you have two choices - mark the receivers as best you can and then try to run down the thrower or smack down enough of the receivers to prevent a passing play and hope you can maintain it for the full 8 turns. Or you allow them to score, but putting enough pressure on that they cannot stall and do it quickly, to give you time to grind a cage down and equalise before the end of the half.

[Nikolai II]

Indeed, Ziggurats means the elves have to get several knockdowns on the LOS to be able to run freely downfield, or make a disturbing blitz on a side-guy (and if they don't have guard they will still need to make dodges to get past.)



But in the end making them score quickly is probably for the best. But you should also make them roll plenty of dice for it - they can fail in which case you just cage the ball. After caging it you could start considering whether to try to pick it up and head upfield as well.

[Lebe666]

Nikolai... this formation with 1 block on the middle (then use of dodge) or one 1 block on the sidelines (no dodge required to get around) is opened. They just need a guy with guard helping to get the 2 die block.

[Vusfnuv]

1. Use STR4 and/or standfirm guys at the flanks, this will make it harder even with 2D blocks if they bring a guarder.
2. Even if they break through the sideline in this case, they will most likely not have a guarder with recievers, as it's been already used to breack through.
3. If you have three players who are not easy to be pushed back or knocked over (str4+, blok/standfirm, sidesteppers, blogers, etc), I'd use them as players #1, 10, 2 (if you are yellow). It will make them roll more dices. If you have 4, then #1, 16, 11, 2.
4. If you are playing wood elves, it's even harder tue to wardancers leaping over your players. However, if they have no RR left, this is a 1/3 chance of failure, which is rather good, so it may be a good idea to MAKE them leap by macking pushbacks as difficult as you can.

[Nikolai II]

The yellow one is for when you have sidesteppers, in which case you move them next to the sideline if pushed back, forcing everyone to run past the guy closer to the middle. Else go with the blue.
Both setups require knockdowns on the LOS to be possible to pass by with just a dodge, and if you outbash them severely you cold move everyone not on the LoS one step up and make things even tighter to go up the middle, forcing more dodges.

And yes, if they have guard and you have no ST 4 guys then they can get an easy passage down one sideline. But then everyone has to run through that narrow passage meaning instead of having them spread out evenly on your backfield you have everyone nicely parked in one corner, ripe for hunting down. (And a guard that is just asking to be surfed unless they have sidestep)

Basically Elves and Skaven thrive on being able to press through to your backfield with comparative ease - all you can do is make it as difficult as possible, because sooner or later they'll roll double one.

[Valokiloren]

To be honest, I'd have to agree that the Ziggurats are the best ways to stop them if you compare formation to formation. But... it's better to use something you know how to use well, as you'll have better luck at stopping them that way.

As Dreamy/ Nikolai can attest - I hardly ever use anything other than 1 formation on most of my teams, but because of how used to it I am, I make it work better than some of the suggestions for me.

All AGI-happy teams are, as Nik says, ones which thrive on threatening the rush with ease, so marking the players unsupported by the rest of the team and screening are your best friends. All the agile teams are poor at bashing compared to the rest of the teams - they aren't bad and can manage it well, but a Skaven or Elven team will, more often than not, lose in a bash fight to anything which isn't an Elf, another Skaven or a Stunty team. And all the Stunty teams are able to outbash the Agi teams due to having 2+ Big Guys and enough players to overrun a weakened team.

[danton]

There are two basic ways to approach this in my experience. Either you try and make it difficult to break through on the wings, using either of the ziggurat formations posted above, or something similar, or you put everyone in your backfield in a very central formation that gives up both flanks.

The former strategy has already been explained, so I'll talk a bit about the latter. This type of formation can be good for the slower teams, such as dwarfs, Orcs, Nurgle, etc. The idea is that if the elves or skaven commit heavily to one wing from the start, then you have most of your backfield players in range of that flank, so you can then crowd them against the sideline and deny them space to easily get past you on the next turn.

The problem with the ziggurat for a slow team, is that it can leave four of your players quite far away from where the other team breaks through, assuming they do manage to get past you on the opposite flank. A lot depends on how good your wing defenders are all the same.

[Lebe666]

I've always been sucessful in keeping down the one or two that get to the back. Unless you get KO they will get up and dodge around... very dangerous.

But an elf team just streamed in en masse ... building a cage right in the middle of my field. Lots of GFI but not too much... breaking a cage right there was complicated since I had 4 at the wings. I managed to push around and even get someone close to the ball carrier... but it was too easy to just dodge and score.

[Coach]

If he just scored in two turns then you can use the rest of the half to try and grind his team down and score in the last turn. Then do the same again in the second half. I wouldn't worry about it.