One Turn Scorer:
- Normal: Sprint/Sure Feet/Side Step/Leap/Catch
- Doubles: Nerves of Steel/Two heads
- Stat Increase: +ST, +AG, +MV
Thankfully under the new rules it is harder to build a one turner without getting the +MV as Very Long Legs no longer grants an extra square of movement. This means you need to rely on the go for its when you get Sprint. Sure Feet will help with the 3 go for its, Side Step will let you chain push the player forward the one square you need if you don’t get a movement increase. Leap will let you jump over a deep defensive line, or against perfect defence. Catch obviously helps conserve rerolls when you are getting the ball to him. Nerves of Steel on doubles will aid against perfect defence or Pass Blockers, or Two Heads will make dodging past a deep defence easier. +ST is no use at all for this player but will let you turn him into a more rounded and perhaps useful player, +AG may also do the same but it also makes one turning easier as well.
I really don’t think you should build a player this way, if you do then it makes most sense to wait until a Gutter Runner gets +MV, preferably on the first skill. You will often be just fielding him for one turn and hiding him in the dug out a lot. This will keep a lot of team value off the pitch and prevent you from turning him into a more useful player for both offence and defence. This is only my opinion though and hopefully what I’ve explained in this article should convince you of how great Gutter Runners can be built other ways.
Skaven Gutter RunnerSummary:
You may have spotted that the skills I have recommended will work on both sides of the ball, defensively and offensively (not every skill obviously). This makes them useful to have on the pitch all the time, which for your more expensive players makes the most sense in my eyes. Wrestle and Block as the first skills for them, really helps with keeping them alive and lets you use them more aggressively. Side Step up next, keeps them from getting bogged down, ties them to targets you want to mark, defends the sideline, lets you stand (or half cage) next to the sideline and also lets you one turn fairly easily with chain pushes (another reason not to build a dedicated one turner). If you get a stat increase in any of the first three skills you can build that player to maximise which particular bonus he got. Building this way with skills that help any build means you don’t waste any stat increase you get on one of them. Just cause it perhaps is better to have Wrestle and Block the way around I suggested, doesn’t mean you can swap the roles around depending on who gets a +ST or +AG.
Gutter Runners can be really flexible and after the first two skills you can really go which ever way you prefer for your own play style or skewed towards the other teams that make up the league you are playing in. Don’t be scared of them getting killed, it is a rough game and it happens, it shouldn’t be hard to build a replacement anyway. Also Nuffle favours those who stick their nose on the line more!
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July 24th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Skaven were my first team and they remain my favourite, especially due to these guys. Where Dwarfs struggle to get across a pitch sideways, the Gutter Runners can be almost anywhere you want on the pitch in no more than two moves.
Another use for Gutter Runners, is if you start with a Rat Ogre and are short of money so don’t bother with a Skaven Thrower, Gutter Runners can make serviceable Passers with their Agility of 4. Obviously this isn’t a career for them but they do a good job until you can afford a Thrower later.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Ah yes I’ve had this debate with other coaches before who suggest not taking a thrower at all. I’m so used to playing with a thrower so I rarely need to use a gutter runner to do the job of picking it up, hence forgetting to mention it.
Personally I would rather have another potential receiver for the opponents to deal with and the thrower can end up passing the ball better than a gutter runner can anyway. Of course you can still use a gutter runner to pick the ball up with even if you do have a thrower on the pitch, nothing should be set in stone.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Just starting a skaven team in an on going league right now. Got 1M to start then 350K for additional upgrades with the limit of only single die skills. I put the skills on everyone but the runners(easiest to level up) and the rat orge(want a double).
July 24th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Well yes, I would always get a Thrower eventually. I merely meant starting off.
3+ with a Reroll(Sure Hands) is statistically safer than a straight 2+ for picking up the ball. Not by much but it can make all the difference at a crucial time of a game. And this is also true of passes.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I would point out that much of the value of the one-turn-scorer is in the way the threat can force the opposing coach to modify his game plan. Defensively coaches can less rely on a couple deep safeties to mark receivers, but have to spread out their whole team to make sure to cover enough of the pitch with TZs.
On offense, strength teams will have a harder time going for the 2-1 victory. During the half where they go last, stalling until turn 7 won’t be good enough, they have to stall all the way to turn 8, which gives you an extra turn to impede the ball carrier. During the half where they go first, even if they stall until turn 8, you still have a good shot to score with your last turn. Against other passing teams, if you find yourself in a high-scoring shootout, a one-turn score can net you an extra TD at the end of halves to put you over the top.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I’m a new player to Blood Bowl and have just started up a league with some friends. I coach Skaven, and am not really seeing the advantage of Wrestle over Block as your first skill pick for a Gutter Runner. If a blocking roll is a “both down”, the former puts you both on the ground without armor rolls, while the latter puts your opponent on the ground only, and you get an AV check. In both cases, the ball comes loose if you’ve just hit the ball carrier… Is the idea here that a GR on the ground can’t be blocked (only fouled) and therefore has a lower chance of being injured the next turn?
In my first game I played dwarfs, and my only player to get a skill was a GR. I’m leaning towards Block, but am curious as to why you might select Wrestle instead.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
This is a simple one, most ball carriers are going to have the block skill as well, so if you have block there will be no effect, if you take wrestle instead you can knock him over for a team mate to collect the ball, or force them to pick the ball up again. This can seriously slow the progress of moving the ball down the field for the opposing team.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Aha! Thinking outside the box here. I’d not really considered my Gutter Runners as players who would go after the ball carrier often (though they did try in their first game, to disasterous effect), but with wrestle, a “both down” would pull down another player *even if he has block* and, of course, dislodge the ball if that sucker had it.
Nice.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
There’s more listed under the skill articles on block and wrestle, but it’s also a defensive strategy – if your player gets blocked, you can choose to have both players go prone, even if the opponent has block. This prevents the player who blocked you from lending or preventing assists, especially if he has guard. He also won’t be exerting a tackle zone during your turn, and since your player has the first opportunity to stand up, he will be able to move freely that turn without being tied up by the player who just blocked you.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:45 am
Thanks Coach !
My first i gave my first Gutter Runner Block and Dauntless, i will go for Strip Ball after this. Second will be Wrestle instad of Block, this will give me 2 blitzers and a decent ball carrier. I just hope i will be able to level my linemens, they don’t get many xp atm
July 25th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
As long as you play one-turn scorers as aggressively as other runners I think can be real game-breakers. Don’t leave them in the dug-out on your opponents drive, keep them around as assists for blocks (they can move from one end of the pitch to the other to bring in a much needed assist) or lingering ball-pickers that steal the ball and run far far away with it (preferably to the end zone) once your blitzer runners have done their job.
They are nice distractions too…your opponent will hunt them so putting them off to the side of where the action is can tie up opposing players that should maybe have been thinking more about protecting the ball carrier than chasing him.
Sure, playing them aggressively means your precious one-turn scorer might die…but that’s what skaven is all about, re-shape and re-build (at least he won’t be hogging all the SPP and inflating your TV anymore).
July 28th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Very good read Coach!
I was hoping you would put up a guide about how your two turn on offense, placing your recievers, ball carrier etc.
Also how you would play defense vs 2 turners, how to cover recievers, who to blitz, starting lineup etc.
Make some nice play graphs like you did on the MV6 one turner post.
Excellent website you have.
Cheers!
July 28th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
I forgot, we are also missing a stormvermin guide. I need it badly!
September 10th, 2009 at 2:23 am
Interested to know what you think of some of the other available mutations – I can see Foul Appearance being particularly annoying combined with Block and Side Step. Or Disturbing Presence combined with Pass Block. Or Prehensile Tail with Tackle/Shadowing…
September 10th, 2009 at 5:19 am
Personally, I’m not a fan of those skills on gutter runners, because I feel like there are more useful options. You really want to take advantage of the high movement and agility that gutter runners possess, and disturbing presence and prehensile tail are skills that could be taken, to equal effect, on linemen. And LRB 5 Foul Appearance has been weakened to the point where I can’t really see taking it anymore.
October 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Long legs, pass block, and catch could be very useful on a gutter runner allowing them to get into the right place and intercept a pass then turn around and run it in for a touch down on the next turn.
October 16th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Wanderer, dont discount foul appearance.
Its basically an automatic bonehead roll for their blitz action.
I agree you wouldnt necessarily take it as a high pick for a gutter runner, but its not a bad mutation at all. On defence against cages a couple of players with foul appearance can completely foul up (if you’ll excuse the pun) the other teams push, even one turn without getting to blitz can be very annoying.
Throwers with foul appearance and dump-off are also incredibly annoying for the other team. You have to go to effort to set up the block so that you can have a chance at stopping the pass…only to have the foul appearance roll fail.
In the Cyanide game you cant use a reroll on the foul appearance roll at the moment, so its slightly better online than on board.
October 16th, 2009 at 10:52 am
It’s not whether it’s useful, it’s whether it’s more useful than anything else I could take.
With a limit on 5 skills maximum on a player, personally, I just can’t see a reason to take it. On a Skaven team I’m forgoing another doubles skill choice (dodge, guard, claw, horns, etc.) and on a Chaos team I’d want so many other normal skills first (block, guard, mighty blow, stand firm, tackle, frenzy, prehensile tail, etc.)
October 16th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
agreed, its difficult to fit it in.
I’ve seen it used a couple of ways that were interesting, but whether they were better than the other alternatives…..hard to say.
A chaos front line with foul appearance on every player (mino and two chaos warriors) is annoying for other strength teams, but completely wasted against agi teams.
Gutter runners with it only really turn up when someone has rolled several doubles on the same player.
And I’m now confused, do I not have the latest version of the LRB?
Isnt it 6 maximum skills for a player?
October 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
You’re right, it’s 6 not 5. I was going off the “LRB 5 changes” article on this site, which says 5 (that could be fixed when you get a chance, coach). That was the nice thing about Foul Appearance in the old rules – it had value against both blocking and passing teams.
October 16th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
worth noting that it still has some value against agi teams, in fact its one of the only things that can save your carrier from a blitzing wardancer with wrestle and tackle and a spare reroll….particularly since you cant reroll it at the moment in the cyanide version lol.
It also makes getting your marker off a thrower a lot harder, gutter runners with shadowing, tackle, block, sidestep and foul appearance is darn hard to get off your thrower (though not THAT much harder than the same player without foul appearance)
Meh, you’re right, its not as good as it probably needs to be to make it a genuinely good skill. All of its uses are pretty situational and specific, you wont see too many people taking it, but its a ‘nice to have’. The sort of skill you get as your fifth or sixth on a player thats pretty much got everything you needed him to have for his role.
December 26th, 2009 at 10:56 am
I just started a Skaven team, and one of my gutter runners suffered -1 Strength. I have cash to buy a new one, but the gutter runner is lvl 2. Should I discard him or should I wait to get a +ST
December 26th, 2009 at 11:22 am
ST1 is pretty useless get rid of him, wouldn’t think twice about it. Any future questions about your teams can you ask in the forum please, sign up is just as easy as commenting here.
April 20th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Hey Coach, when will you finally give up and get a copy of the BB videogame?
At the moment i’m running a quite nice skaven team with 4 different GR builds:
1. wrestle, dauntless (striball next)
2. +1 S, block (sidestep, shadowing)
3. +1 MA, sprint (wrestle/block, surefeet)
with the fourth i’m going quite a weird one:
long legs, pass block, i intend to get leap and catch next – leaping on 2+, intercepting on 4+ with RR. I find leap and pass block to combine very nicely, rarely an opponent expect a leaping pass block. The combo also uses the long legs skills to its full.
What do you think?
April 25th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
I like your Gutters, although one with Guard might be a good idea.
Maybe with the fourth Gutter you should get big hand instead of catch? I find big hand and leap work really well together.