Lizardman Skink Overview:
Lizardman teams main advantage is their speed and the Skinks possess this in abundance. At MV8 they can be really hard to pin down, especially as they also have the Stunty skill to ignore tacklezones when they dodge. The Dodge skill combines with this really well to give them a fantastic ability to move all over the pitch. You do need to be somewhat careful though as they do still only have an average agility of AG3.
They do have their drawbacks though and this is most apparent in their low strength. With only ST2 they can appear to be a bit useless at times, having trouble to hit almost anyone. Their low armour value and Stunty can also make them rather fragile, though Dodge offers some protection. When it comes to skill access as well they can only take agility skills on normal rolls. As they also don’t start with any ball handling skills, this can make ball handling somewhat troublesome. With their stronger team mates having the really poor agility of AG1, you are probably going to be doing all the ball handling with the skinks, though passing plays are probably out of the question due to the negative side of the Stunty skill.
All these factors combine in making it a rather attractive tactic of hunting down the Skink players on your team to really hamper you. They are easy to hit because of their low strength, break easily cause of low armour and Stunty and if you have none left then you aren’t going to be able to handle the ball or move around that easily with the rest of your team. Ideally then you want to try and protect the Skinks behind the rest of your team and keep them from getting hit.
So I’ve probably made them sound like horrible players by now, though this is far from the case and they can be developed in a few different ways to make them even more effective. I mentioned that they can’t really pass, though with high movement and agility access to get the Catch skill, you can do running handoff plays and move the ball quite a distance anyway. Do this well and you can probably move it just as far as teams who do so by passing, as I said speed is you main advantage. There are other great combos you can take as well for defensive duty too.
Attacking Skink:
- Normal: Catch, Sure Feet, Side Step
- Doubles: Block, Sure Hands
- Stat Increase: +ST +AG +MV/+AV
You will need a couple of these, perhaps even 3 or 4 eventually and you should be able to move the ball around really well when you do. Catch is the first skill to give them so you hand off the ball to them, you also get two chances at catching bouncing balls and interceptions which is handy as well. Sure Feet next up will let you move 10 squares fairly reliably which will really open the pitch up. Both of these skills also have the extra benefit of saving your team rerolls which is great on a team that tends to need them. Side Step is probably the best remaining skill as it makes it hard to pin them and in reduces the number of dodges and blocks they will have to suffer.
On doubles Block is probably best, really makes them hard to knock over and increases their survivability, will also let you do the odd one die block or blitz with less risk as well. Sure Hands could be handy should you get another one, or perhaps even as their first skill (then you might skip taking Catch) so you can pick it up and then hand off to the other ones. Any stat increase could be useful, ST3 with Stunty you can use then look to turning them into a long range blitzer, +AG and they will really be able to move anywhere on the pitch at ease and be great for ball related activities. On a 10 roll I may skip it early on and take a skill though +MV will give you an even greater scoring range, or +AV could be helpful to keep a valuable one alive a bit longer.
Defensive Skink:
- Normal: Side Step, Diving Tackle, Jump Up
- Doubles: Block/Shadowing
- Stat Increase: +ST +AG +MV
These guys are a real pain for opposition teams to deal with and only need two skills to be effective. I’d get at least two and 4 will really cause trouble for the other team. Side Step first of all will help with protection and also let you mark receivers well or keep running lanes blocked off. Diving Tackle is next up and it makes them better at doing both jobs mentioned. When marking receivers it will be hard to blitz them away and then Diving Tackle can either stop them attempting to dodge or even better cause them to turnover if they do. Against slower teams with lots of Tackle then you perhaps don’t want to mark the players giving them a free block on you, but just standing in the way of where they are likely to run through (easier to predict for slower players) then they can have trouble getting past them. You can also use these guys to swarm a ball carrier and make it hard for them to get the ball away. Be wary though if they have an option to just hand the ball off to a team mate. Jump Up could be a good third skill, helping to keep your high movement effective after you have just used Diving Tackle.
On doubles, Block may be best as it will keep them standing keeping their other skills in play. Shadowing though can really cause problems if an opponent is trying to get away, I favour Block though. +ST will let you hit players back who elect not to dodge away and make it harder to blitz you off as well. +AG will let you get balls that get dropped or knocked loose and then let you run off with it through lots of tackle zones. +MV will let you get to receivers from across the pitch or +AV will keep them alive a bit longer as they will be taking lots of hits.
More on the next page…
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Pages: 1 2
September 29th, 2009 at 9:45 am
nice article, I’ve always wondered whether you should always take the +1AV when you roll it. I’ve often not taken it (early in skink development) and generally that skink has died shortly afterwards lol.
I’m beginning to think that with skinks, wood elves and almost any AV7 player you should always take the AV if the league is likely to be long.
This is really particularly apparent now with the advent of the Cyanide game and so many people playing in the ‘open league’ which literally has no end. Survivability becomes more valuable, in a short (less than 15 games say) league the skills are likely to win you a game, which is critical to your teams performance, in an unending league, your player is far more likely to die/suffer horrendous injuries over time, so i think the comparative value of AV is much increased.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Out of interest, is there any way to see what the latest published articles are? I had looked through all the player type articles a week or so ago so I only found out this one had been added when you commented elsewhere.
Is there a ‘search for new articles’ or similar function?
September 29th, 2009 at 10:29 am
The new ones all get posted on the home page, the most recent nearest the top. The featured ones in the top section then under that are the 10 most recently added articles.
Or you can sign up using the rss feed (I personally use google reader for this) or email subscription.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
The Player-Tag differs from the Team-Tag (here L, Team l)
October 13th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
With the slight changes to skink skillsets in lrb5, i’d be inclined to take +av when it comes up, as add survivability, especially on a skilled skink, can be a godsend. +Ma isn’t as key, as you can choose general skills that can augment your already prodigious movement. I’d still also take the double on a 5,5 though.
As for skills, i think what is really missing here, is the mention of kick on a double. Whilst there are many other doubles that are definitely worth taking, you should be able to find room for at least one, and the ability to control the field is more than worthwhile (even with kick off return on the other side).
I do like the idea of the passblock/diving tackle combo though
Elf catchers beware!!
December 15th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Sure Hands would be my skill of choice on a double, given the amount of times my skinks seem to fail. Sure Feet is what I’ve started with, but maybe it’s the feeling rather than the true chance a skink with it has to fail two gfis. Prior to that the idea is good, though. Reliable GFIs are great for skinks when all they really do well is dodge and run.
Addendum: I play the computer game (and rather amateurishly).
December 21st, 2009 at 11:59 am
How about the skink fouler? Sneaky git and dirty player. While not a very sportsmanlike combo, it can be pretty effective. Sneakin in to wherever and fouling has been pretty helpfull at times. And if he’s sent of, it’s not that much of a crisis. Skinks have a habit of leaving the field anyway
But i really like Lizardmen. When moves like tunnel strike and such go according to plan, there is nothing more revarding than playing them. Up til now, I think they are kind of bound to the far ends of the scales. They either perform extraordinarily well, or stink to high heaven.
I find that getting cas on the Saurus is a slow way of gathering SPP, and I often find myself a bit frustrated over the somewhat lacking ability they have to get players off the field. Even as I can field 7 players with ST4 or more, bashy opposing teams often have more bashing power distributied over a large number of players. I often find that my saurus get tied up with lower ST players that have block and whatnot, leaving my skinks pretty vulnerable. This also negates a the high MV on the sauruses. I hate dwarves for that
I’m not a very experienced coach, especially with Lizardmen. And I find them challenging to play. Let’s say I have a few more losses than wins
I would love to find some sort of detailed lizardman playbok. Making my own is very time consuming. Or at least a “Skink use 101″.
By the way: Fantastic page, coach.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:48 pm
It is certainly a viable option, though if you are going to make a skink fouler I’d wait for a double on the first skill to take dirty player and then you can take sneaky git next skill regardless of what you roll. If you take sneaky git first then you are leaving it to chance that you get a double on the next skill to get Dirty Player.
The reason I don’t really advise building one initially is because double rolls on a Skink are at a premium and there are so many more useful alternatives. Block, Wrestle, Sure Hands, Kick and even Tackle or Strip Ball if you roll doubles again on the same one. Also Skinks aren’t the cheapest of players and while you are right they tend to leave the pitch easily, I prefer not to accelerate that by getting them sent off. A fouling Skink is probably most useful on a fairly old and developed team where you have most of the other core options already covered on your other Skinks. I’ll get around to playbooks eventually but Blood Bowl is quite complex from a strategy point of view and it may take some time to get around to covering it. Lizardmen are also probably one of the more tricky teams to use well due to their skill access, stating skills and stat lines for their players. Until then hopefully the more generic articles will help you somewhat, though as always if you have any in game situation you feel unsure about, recreate it on the play creator site and post it on the forum.
April 19th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Skinks can make good catchers with their agility skill access but are terrible passers because of stunty. Stunty can effectively be ignored however by a skink taking Hail Mary Pass on an early double followed by a few others taking Diving Catch. With the high movement of skinks this can turn most opponent ball fumbles into 1 turn touchdowns for you.
June 13th, 2010 at 4:18 am
Hi,
In general I kinda disagree on skilling up multiple Skinks with catch. To me, scoring with Skinks is so easy that they do not really need any additional help. Also, ” normal scores” (when you receive with 4 or more turns to go) should imho be done with Sauri (AG1 pickup with a reroll is 55%) anyway, since those are incredible hard to skillup otherwise.
I also disagree on choosing shadowing on a (second)double. IIRC, you have to choose between using shadowing or diving tackle (unless you can first attempt to shadow and use diving tackle if this fails), I find that Strip Ball can be incredibly usefull on a Skink that already posseses Block. Also, Guard should be considered, as this will often allow you to get 2 Dice Blitzes with Skink Mobs.
I would also recommend to perhaps build up a one turn scorer skink, who should get Sprint, Sure Feet and Catch, in any order that suits your fancy.
Lizards are among the best one turn score races in the game (second only to Skaven and Wood Elfs), due to having Stunty, often having Frenzy, and MV8 to boot, so it would be smart to exploit this.
When rolling a 10 (non double) I would go for MV on a “Scorer/OTS” Skink and AV on an “annoying” Skink.
One should also consider Kick as a double, since Sauri usually have more pressing Skill needs and Lizards really benefit from Kick a lot.
As a third choice after Sidestep DT, Sure Feet could also be considered. Basically, Jump Up gives +3 MV after having fallen down, while Sure Feet allows to do GFI without much risk. If you are trying to create a Skink-Seperation between an enemy ball carrier and his main team, having those extra moves may be huge.
Cheers,
Mightypeon
June 13th, 2010 at 7:07 am
Thanks for that some good points there. Regarding Shadowing and Diving Tackle, you resolve the dodge first in which you may or may not use Diving Tackle. If they succeed in dodging away and you are still on your feet, then you can try and use Shadowing. That may force another dodge attempt where you repeat the same procedure.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Hmm, perhaps an article on how to score with Sauri may be in order, since this is what creates succesfull Lizardmen teams.
Draft:
1: When to score with a Saurus:
In general, Scoring with a Saurus will usually need about 4 turns. Scoring in three is possible but leaves very scant room for error. Against most Blitzez, a Saurus will be more resilent than a Skink. Scoring with a Saurus has 2 problems: First, the Saurus needs to get the ball, secondly, a Saurus Ball carrier can often be marked, and if he does not have Break Tackle (if he has, he probably has Block too, meaning that you should score with another less developed Saurus). Lets see how we can deal with the first problem:
One can do 2 things, either one does a pickup with a Saurus deep in your own zone, or you carry the ball with a Skink and hand off in the deep in the opponents zone.
The prefered matter depends on your team, your enemies team and the available threats. Against Dwarfs, a pickup in your own zone is prefered, since they are likely to slow to profit from a pickup fail. Against Skavens, handoffs from a Skink to the Saurus are better , because you will have more way to insure that a hand off fail will likely land in or next to your cage.
Here is a sample way to faciliate a handoff:
Legend: SK = Skink, SA= Saurus, SH= Saurus handoff target, SB= Skink Ballcarrier.
SA SA
SB SH
SK SK
Boundary
If the handoff fails, the ball will likely drop in at least 2 tackle zones.
The next problem is avoiding to be marked while beeing a non BT Saurus Ballcarrier.
To combat this, you have several options.
1: Blitz with the Ballcarrier and do not follow up.
2: Blitz with someone else.
Both of these are rather straight forward.
However, often those markers will have sidestep, perhaps reeinforced by Diving tackle. Also, you may be marked by multiple guys, meaning that a single Blitz wont do. In such situations, use Skinks to set up a chainpush. Sidestep does (in LRB 4 at least) not work against chainpushes, meaning that such a chainpush is an ideal way to get away from a sidestepper. If Sidestep works against Chainpushes, a marking non sidestepper into you ball carrier and get away from the sidestepper by this.
Cheers,
Mightypeon
P.S. Is there a way to add pictures?
June 17th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
+AG is godlike on skinks, and if you can roll one or two of these your team will never be the same again. You won’t need nearly so many attacking skinks, and catch becomes a lot less important leaving you able to take sure feet and side-step earlier.
Re: Defensive skinks – I think I’d take sure feet on the third skill. While jump up may seem to combine with diving tackle it’s quite rare that diving tackle actually sends you to the floor. Sure feet gives you extra general mobility to give assists to players trying to take down the ball carrier. It’s a close call though.
On defense I’d recommend having at least one attacking skink on the pitch (you never know!) while for attack I’d suggest only having two. The defensive skinks are very useful on attack as well, as they can mark dangerous opponents and sit in channels. If bad things happen attack can turn to defense pretty quickly too!
November 27th, 2011 at 5:27 am
I’m new at blood bowl, however I beg to disagree with the assumption that skinks are terrible at passing, while they start out with only a fifty percent chance of making a throw, taking passing or accurate makes passing a possibility, even if most teams will make it hard for you. Moving 8, a quick/short pass and moving an additional 8 and maybe going for it usually gets me a touchdown.
November 27th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
You will soon find that against good coaches relying on a 50 50 shot will lose you games. Compared to just doing a hand off (which with movement eight, Dodge and Stunty should be feasible) the odds are awful.
Doing a quick pass and a catch is 33.3% or 61.1% with a reroll. Doing two go for its and a hand off is 46.3% or 77.2% with a reroll. Passing should generally be considered a desperation play which is why you will find most games often end without a single pass attempt unless trying to get a quick score at the end of a drive.
Even doing one dodge with the Dodge skill, two GFI and a hand off is 41.2% or 68.6% with a reroll. Hope this helps!
November 28th, 2011 at 4:21 am
Even handoffs are risky with AG 3, and at least then you can predict fairly well where the ball will go if you fail.
Also, if you’re going for the Skink passing game you will necessarily have to expose your Skink receivers, and most teams will have Tackle and/or Mighty Blow specialist eager for a shot at farming Stunties for bonus SPP.
Sure you /can/ pass, and there are (losing) situations where it might be your best bet, but generally speaking if you’re looking for a mixed passing/running game there are other teams much better suited to it.
December 4th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
The only time a lizardmen player should ever attempt a pass is if it’s Turn 8, you can’t or don’t need to score, and you’ve got a Saurus or Skink at 5, 15, or 30 spp with a Catch skink ready and waiting.