Rules The extra teams?

[Morgred]

You know the Chaos Pact, Slann and Underworld teams.. They are not in the 'Competition Rules' (the most up to date rules).

Just wondering are they official teams or are they trial teams? And will they be in future rules? Whats the deal?

 

[Valokiloren]

They're not considered to be official teams by GW. The Slaan aren't due to the fact that GW refuses to make models for them, though there was a Slann team made by them at some point for an earlier edition, I think the 2nd. The Underworld and Chaos Pact aren't considered official, and I think it's at least partly to do with the fact that they both have multiple 0-1 options in their lists, making the teams very widespread.
That said, most of the tournaments allow them to be used anyway due to their widespread use over the community.
Also, LRB6 is supposedly the final edition of the rules, so they are going to remain unofficial. At least until someone decides the rules need some tweaking.

 

[Coach]

They were playtested and the BBRC passed them for inclusion in the rules, GW didn't want them in there as they don't have minis for them. They are NAF approved though and as far as I'm aware every NAF tournament or league that knows about them will include them.

 

[Dr Rudolf von Richten]

From the document that introduces these teams:

"During the 2007, 2008 and 2009 Rules Review, the 5 members of the Blood Bowl Rules Committee (BBRC) (which includes game creator Jervis Johnson) unanimously voted that the following three teams would be endorsed additions to the game of Blood Bowl for LRB 6.0. However Games Workshop will not allow these three teams to be officially printed in the Rulebook until such time in the future when Specialist Games has the ability to create a range of miniatures to properly support all three of their releases at once. So these three teams enjoy the status of being BBRC Endorsed Blood Bowl teams but they just cannot be put in the Living Rulebook yet. In addition, the NAF, (thenaf.net) the official Blood Bowl tournament tracking organization, endorses these 3 teams for tournament play."

In other words, they are just as legal as any of the 21 teams in the Competition rules, and the only reason they're not in the LRB is that Games Workshop refuses to make models for these teams (in particular Slann) or to repackage existing models (Skaven & Goblins for Underworld, Norse/Skaven/Dark Elf/Goblin for Chaos Pact) to be able to sell these teams as teams (the standard '11 or 12 models for£30 0r $/€40' package).

My guess is that GW doesn't want to devote any extra energy and resources to Blood Bowl since, after all, it won't make them as much money as WFB & WH 40k do.

Luckily, there are multiple manufacturers of 'Fantasy Football' miniatures & teams (some of which are advertised on this site), and, being smart, most of those made at least a 'Frogs' team, and plenty of others.

 

[Morgred]

Ok sweet. If its really just the fact of not having produced minis does that mean they may end up on the videogame?

Maybe they could be an addition version (like the dark elves were) which would include the chaos dwarves aswell

And Coach, do you have plans to do positional player write ups for the extra 3 teams?

 

[Coach]

I have a plan in that I eventually hope to have them covered along with anything else I can possibly think of as an article. As to when that will happen, your guess is as good as mine.

I wouldn't hold your breath with regards to seeing them in the Cyanide game though. The BBRC isn't made up of GW employees and the legal dept will probably have their say. A lot of what GW does seems to revolve around that these days. I can't see them adding support for teams that their competitors sell but they don't...

 

[Netsmurf]

What about the skins to Cyanide? At some point there was talked about someone making a skin for the cyanide so that you could upload the 3 teams with the right skills - is that death?

 

[Coach]

You can only replace an existing teams skins and use that race as one that doesn't currently exist. Then you can load a any team roster you like into the game but only using direct IP connected matches, you can't use such rosters on the in built internet multiplayer.

So the barrier for entry is a bit more complicated and not as user friendly so I doubt many would bother, especially compared to just using FUMBBL. Though the client they use on there only works on their website (as far as I know) so you are limited by the constraints of their website too unfortunately.

 

[Gallows Bait]

GW will want to control any intellectual property arising, hence Cyanide working from existing teams and the GW approved concepts. These teams don't have the investment from GW to give Cyanide anything to work with, and as far as I can tell that puts them outside the licence.

Also, they aren't in the final versions of the Competition Rules as downloadable from GW, so they aren't in any official GW publications and therefore could not be implemented by Cyanide on that basis - officially they don't exist.

 

[Morgred]

I have a plan in that I eventually hope to have them covered along with anything else I can possibly think of as an article.

Thats good news.. Looking forward to reading them.

It does seem strange that they went to the trouble of putting the stats/skills etc of 3 new teams together and making them comparably playable with the pre existing teams, with no intention of releasing minis or the likes.

The Chaos Dwarves are, on the other hand, an official team. I know they were not included in the LE version due to the difficulty with the Bull Centaur animation and release date pressure, but is there plans to feature the team in later releases on as an expansion pack?

Will we see the worshipers of Hushut on Cyanide?

 

[Doover]

The Chaos Dwarves are, on the other hand, an official team. I know they were not included in the LE version due to the difficulty with the Bull Centaur animation and release date pressure, but is there plans to feature the team in later releases on as an expansion pack?

Ha... I say (and hoping) they are planning to release a new Chaos Dwarf Army for Warhammer Fantasy. For that Army they are making new models and give them some kind of new view.
That way they had to decide to give Cyanide the old models and change them later or to give them new models but give away some of their ideas before release.

So I think we have to wait until the new Chaosdwarfarmy is released and after that we´ll get a new Add-On with Chaos Dwarfs and some more Starplayer.

I simply can´t believe its that hard to make a Bullcentauer that fits in a single square.

 

[Autarii]

Yeah, the answer that they were having difficulty fitting the Bull Centaur in a single square is nonsense. Most of the big guys are bigger than one tile, and the treeman when he falls over is much bigger. Things such as the Kroxigor tail all exceed the boundaries of one square.

There is a mod made by one of the Cyanide community that allows you to play pact, underworld, slann, and loads of other non official races as well such as forest goblins, wild elves, various chaos, and many more. It is stand alone and doesn't effect your normal version of LE in any way. The downside is that you can currently only play against the AI, but the author is working on one of those direct IP thingies. But that sort of stuff goes right over my head.

 

[Morgred]

Here's hoping they do it fairly soon.. It feels incomplete missing a team. And what a team to leave out. The Chaos Dwarves are awesome!!

Is anyone playing any of the three 'unofficial' teams in leagues anywhere? Id be interested to see how they fair against the other 21 teams. Would they be considered Teir 1,2 or 3?

 

[Netsmurf]

In the begining the Slann are tier 2 but they are able to rocket to tier 1 after 4 games. Last season we had a coach who won his first 7 games with frogs. This season he is starting out with underworld creepers, but I would rate them lover than Slann, but he has managed to win his first match though it was against a halfling team.

The chaos pact realy need time to develope, they are to easy to beat untill skilled up good. I would start them in tier 2, with potential

 

[Valokiloren]

It's because they have 4 feet. The animations for the dodges etc. are all with two-feet, and apparently - because the players are four-footed, they would need to come up with so many different animations for all the different outcomes. Personally, I think it's less of a difficulty, and more of the fact that to do all that work for just one player on a single team, just isn't worth it. All the other players at very least use very similar animations, if altered slightly for the individual type of player.

 

[John McGuirk]

Well, they're making a Game of Thrones game, aren't they? Can't they import some assets from that, and splice a Dwarf model with that of a horse?

I'd like to hear more from Netsmurf about what skills turn the Slaan into such a good team. Not that I doubt they are, it's just that looking at the roster I'm not sure I see such potential in it (Catchers leaping on 2+ is admittedly very nice though).

 

[Coach]

Just loading up on the standard core skills is what will make them good and what they lack to start with. They have some nice unique skills to combo upon already, Block, Guard, Stand Firm Blitzers. Blodge Catchers, Wrestle, Tackle, Strip Ball Linos, Guard on doubles.

They are very hard to pin down due to the leaping ability, this helps them out both on offence and on defence. If you know how much of a pain Leap on a Wardancer is, imagine trying to combat that when every player on their team can move like that. Diving Tackle also takes some getting used to as you don't see a lot of it taken surprisingly.

 

[Darkson]

It does seem strange that they went to the trouble of putting the stats/skills etc of 3 new teams together and making them comparably playable with the pre existing teams, with no intention of releasing minis or the likes.

If by "they" you mean GW, they didn't - they pretty much had nothing to do with the rules since the old 3rd edition release - 4th edition was by JJ alone, and LRBs 1-5 and the CRP were all made by the BBRC - blood bowl coaches from around the world.

When the teams were being discussed for inclusion in LRB5, there was a chance that Slann figs would get made by the Fanatic sculpters, and if that happened,they were in the book. Fanatic got closed, the Slann figs never got made, and someone in GW put their foot down on not allowing the Slann in the book without official GW figs. The BBRC decided that if they put the other 2 in, there was never going to be a chance to get the Slann in the rules, so all 3 were kept back as an "all or nothing".

 

[Morgred]

Just loading up on the standard core skills is what will make them good and what they lack to start with. They have some nice unique skills to combo upon already, Block, Guard, Stand Firm Blitzers. Blodge Catchers, Wrestle, Tackle, Strip Ball Linos, Guard on doubles.

They are very hard to pin down due to the leaping ability, this helps them out both on offence and on defence. If you know how much of a pain Leap on a Wardancer is, imagine trying to combat that when every player on their team can move like that. Diving Tackle also takes some getting used to as you don't see a lot of it taken surprisingly.

Stats wise they are quite well rounded too.. With that bloke Netsmurf mentioned too, winning 7 straight games, they appear a potentially a dominate side.

I might be missing something but im struggling to find any major negative features of Slann. They have unmatched manuverability, 4 AG4 players, 4 players with ST skill access, mostly AV 8, Krox's make great big guys.. Where is the down side??

 

[adamacer]

"Where is the down side?? "

Their looks? They must attract alot of stray princesses and spend loads on lipbalm cause all the kissing?