Elf Passing Team

[Doover]

I want to start a new team quite soon so I try to figure out which one I shall play.

After playing the beating game for quite a while I want to play something more Speedy, Dodgy with pointy Ears.

I really like to throw the ball. Didn´t take long until I made my mind up for Pro Elf or High Elf. But I can´t decide which one I shall choose.

I´ll just sum up the pro´s and con´s I thought about and after that some of you can tell me things I didn´t noticed so I can decide better.

- Helfs have better Thrower but PElfs have better Catcher. On the first View the catcher are a better choise ´cause the allready have a double while the Thrower only have a normal skill but they also have AV +1. Sure I try to protect my Thrower but sometime every player will get a punch in the face.

- Pefls have better Blitzer. It´s even a skill I would allways take for a Blitzer.

- Helfs have better Lineman. I allways get a bad feeling when putting up AV 7 player at the Frontline. Sure the price is 10k more but that´s worth it in my point of view.


Anything I missed what could help me to choose between the two Elfs for my passing game? (and yes I simply hope that I don´t meet many Nurgleteams )

 

[Netsmurf]

Think that point in armour is very important if you are a rookie elf coach.

 

[Barninho]

One thing is I would say you can play a really good throwing game with Wood Elves too. Arguably they play a better throwing game than Elves and for me the Thrower is key. What makes Elves good is that their catchers can catch the ball when marked.

As you say Elves can be frustrating when they die, I tend to reroll Mighty Blow block dice against them for that reason if I have spare, maybe even on a push. If they lose a few players it can make it difficult to protect key players.

Having said that an injury to a key high elf player can leave you waiting for a few games til you can replace him as they are expensive.

 

[Murkglow]

All of the elves can do a good job throwing, if I was to pick one as a "starter" elf team though I would definatly recommend either High Elves or Dark Elves though. That extra point of armor on your linemen is very nice to me and make the team a bit more forgiving for a new elf coach.

Having said that an injury to a key high elf player can leave you waiting for a few games til you can replace him as they are expensive.

I don't know what you mean. High elves are not especially expensive for an elf team. Perhaps not quite as cheap as Pro Elves but still cheaper then both Dark and Wood Elves. Add to that their better armor and if anything High Elves face the problem you mentioned less than any other elf team.

 

[maxcarrion]

I agree with Murk that High Elves are probably the most forgiving starter elves due to their above average AV (I disagree about Dark Elves, I think they are the hardest of elves because they don’t play as obvious a game with their weak passing and superior elf brawling leading people into dangerous tactics and risky plays)

Pro elves are probably the hardest to counter in an early league in the hands of experienced elf coaches, NOS is so hard to deal with without tackle/diving tackle. Only slann and nurgle can really stand against PE throwing game (although good bashing teams will simply allow PE to score then grind them to dust, watch out for that )

Wood Elves have a very interesting game with lots of mobility but also a core of hitters (Treeman and Wardancers)

All elf teams have a valid passing game and only the Dark Elves really stand out at being noticeably worse at it. So pick what you want to play with, cheap, tough or fast and you get pro, high or wood. High are the easiest to play but probably on a par power wise with pro and wood, Dark are the hardest to play but I’d say arguably the most powerful in the hands of a skilled coach, especially in early development when 4 block players and lots of AV 8 makes a big difference.

 

[Barninho]

Funny you should say that. Just started a Helf team and lost a blitzer first game. And it will leave me a few games until I can afford to replace him. So its probably just a little bit too fresh in my mind. Fun team though and nice passers.

 

[Murkglow]

...I disagree about Dark Elves, I think they are the hardest of elves because they don’t play as obvious a game with their weak passing and superior elf brawling leading people into dangerous tactics and risky plays...

...only the Dark Elves really stand out at being noticeably worse at it...

...Dark are the hardest to play but I’d say arguably the most powerful in the hands of a skilled coach, especially in early development when 4 block players and lots of AV 8 makes a big difference.

I'm not sure where the problem with Dark Elves come from here. Consider that you don't have to buy their more fragile/expensive players and that they start with 4 Blitzers, I wonder how they could possibly be seen as "harder to use" then any of the other elves. Sure the runners don't start with pass but frankly that's all they are missing really (unless you get a lot of mileage out of Safe Throw) when compared to an early HE team. Also I guess they don't have dedicated catchers but these are elves you hardly need dedicated catchers (and with 4 blitzers it's not a problem for them to be your catchers, though I wouldn't pick catch skills for it on them). In short they are elves and not weak elves at that, they don't have "weak passing" even by elf standards much less other races standards.

Funny you should say that. Just started a Helf team and lost a blitzer first game. And it will leave me a few games until I can afford to replace him. So its probably just a little bit too fresh in my mind.

Imagine if that had been a Wardancer on a Wood Elf team...

 

[Viajero]

I want to start a new team quite soon so I try to figure out which one I shall play.

After playing the beating game for quite a while I want to play something more Speedy, Dodgy with pointy Ears.

I really like to throw the ball. Didn´t take long until I made my mind up for Pro Elf or High Elf. But I can´t decide which one I shall choose.

It is a hard but fun choice (well... not really a choice! You can just start one team of each and play them alternatively! ) Both play radically different so decide rather based on how comfortable you play with one or the other.

High ones have a much bigger room of manoeuver for contact and marking, and therefore the running game is an option for HElves with the added bonus of a strong passing game.

Pro's in the other hand need to maintain distances much like woodies and do hit and runs etc. But they lack the latter's speed so they are inevitably forced to rely much more on the passing game, hence NoS.

Since you come from a bashy background I would tend to sugegst HElves then but... you also said that you like passing and IMHO pro's are much more fun at passing than HElves!

On paper HElves are "better" at passing because of that Safe Throw at start... but is that really what makes a difference? No it is not. Safe Throw is quite seldomly activated, and has a nasty habit of failing when you need it.

In the other hand, NoS in up to 4, I repeat 4!!!!!!, of your players allows for all kinds of magical combos. Not only while catching, but also passing!

I have had many narrow and spectacular escapes thanks to NoS, like that one time where the ball was lose in 2 tackle zones... my catcher managed to pick up with a reroll (NoS does not affect pick ups) at the limit of his MA8 and then pass it out of harm´s way to yet another NoS catcher without penalties.

Or that other time where my catcher ball carrier was not knocked down but then my opponent proceeded to sumarily surround him by markers. Imagine his face when I just passed the ball to yet another of my catchers (also marked but just by one opponent) who simply dodged and had a walk towards the endzone.

IMHO, Pro's are much more fun to play the passing/catching game than HElves. Yet they are AV7 so use with care.

 

[Netsmurf]

Must say reading all pros and cons I´m more and more fond of the woodies. It sure is an easy team to make fantastic plays with, even with the nerfed catcher. And yes losing a WD is horrible but hey wait a minute I have another one so bring ´em on cause you have all you need to take the ball and outscoring the opponent.

But with elfs you have to watch out for elf deasise, the many ones in your cup. If you cant handle that then take a team not rolling so many dice.

 

[Barninho]

"Imagine if that had been a Wardancer on a Wood Elf team..."

Funny you should say that. I just started a Dark Elf team and lost a Blitzer, Runner and Lineman (dead) plus another Blitzer seriously hurt. Does it feel anything like that?

Tell you what, I have been getting properly nuffled today. My advice is not to play any of the elf teams. Take up golf.

 

[Netsmurf]

LOL I would love to elf you just to show that its not impossible

 

[Doover]

Thanks for all your advices.
Decidet to tried High Elfs today. Mostly for the better AV.

Used the Starting Roster I found somewhere here also.

2 Blitzer
1 Thrower
8 Lineman
3 RR´s


Just played my first game against a DElf Team with slightly more TR then me.
I got 100k Inducement and to be realy safe in my first game I bought a Apo.

Well just a short summery.
Delfs startet the game.
Turn 1 A Lineman got AG-1. (Apo not used... just a Liner) but only 10 player left.
Turn 4 My Thrower Dead. Apo... Dead.... 90k lost and only 9 Player left. (After Skull/Skull RR´ed in Skull/Both Down in my Turn.)
Turn 5 0-1 for the Delfs.
Turn 8 1-1 with a Blitzer.

Second Half
Turn 2 my first player got KO´ed. (Just to show that I don´t get hit that often)
Turn 3 2-1 for me.
Turn 6 2-2 for the Delfs
Turn 8 Tried to blitz a Liner free, needed my last RR ´cause of Dubleskull. Then my Ballcarrier needed a 2+ Dodge and 3+ shortpass 2+ Catch for TD.
You know what happend.... dodge 1.. Turnover.
the Delfs pick up the Ball TD 2-3
Game Over.

Just remembered that he has FF 1 (Against my FF 0) and got Fame 2... so he got 2 RR´s extra. 1 Each Half.

Earned 40k Money so just not enough for a Apo and online 9 player for the next game. Well at least I have 2 guys for the Frontline now.

Not everything was bad in the End. My Blitzer got a Double so I have my first Guard.

 

[Murkglow]

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about your injury results.

One of my least favorite things is getting Dead on an Apoth reroll.

I wish you better luck in your games to come.

 

[maxcarrion]

I'm not sure where the problem with Dark Elves come from here. Consider that you don't have to buy their more fragile/expensive players and that they start with 4 Blitzers, I wonder how they could possibly be seen as "harder to use" then any of the other elves. Sure the runners don't start with pass but frankly that's all they are missing really (unless you get a lot of mileage out of Safe Throw) when compared to an early HE team. Also I guess they don't have dedicated catchers but these are elves you hardly need dedicated catchers (and with 4 blitzers it's not a problem for them to be your catchers, though I wouldn't pick catch skills for it on them). In short they are elves and not weak elves at that, they don't have "weak passing" even by elf standards much less other races standards.



Imagine if that had been a Wardancer on a Wood Elf team...

I found dark elves trickier to play with specifically because they don’t come with pass or catch. They can play the throwing game but not as well as the other elf teams, so I would never build my DE strategy primarily around a throwing game (sure I throw on my DE but not as religiously as I would on any other elf team) and if you do then you give up the advantage to every other elf team out there. That’s why I think they are trickier, they need to play a indefinably different game to really get the best out of them, lateral movement, lightning strikes, lots of running. The other elves I found to be a fairly predictable; get receivers into position, throw them the ball, score. But finding the right balance of violence and movement to provide equally effective results with dark elves I found more difficult to achieve. Once you have the hang of it I think they may be the more powerful side but I think the way to get the most out of them is less obvious than it is with the other elf teams and more difficult to achieve. Just playing them as armoured wood elves seems wrong.

 

[Murkglow]

I found dark elves trickier to play with specifically because they don’t come with pass or catch. They can play the throwing game but not as well as the other elf teams, so I would never build my DE strategy primarily around a throwing game (sure I throw on my DE but not as religiously as I would on any other elf team) and if you do then you give up the advantage to every other elf team out there.

This is some massive over reaction. Your passer doesn't have 1 skill and suddenly you're "giving up the advantage to every other elf team out there?" I mean a team reroll does the same thing for you and in the mean time you have two more Blitzers then the HEs giving you a very obvious advantage over them. It's not until we start getting into the relative value of the HE catcher that one could even remotely argue HEs are in any way shape or form as good as the Dark Elves at anything, including a passing game.

That’s why I think they are trickier, they need to play a indefinably different game to really get the best out of them, lateral movement, lightning strikes, lots of running. The other elves I found to be a fairly predictable; get receivers into position, throw them the ball, score. But finding the right balance of violence and movement to provide equally effective results with dark elves I found more difficult to achieve.

Nothing about the Dark Elves force you to play this way. Again one skill which is replaceable by a team reroll does not condemn them to any one style of play, nor force them out of a style if they desire.

Just playing them as armoured wood elves seems wrong.

Obviously you don't play them like armored wood elves as wood elves are actually significantly different from DEs (higher Mv across the board, a Tree Man, Wardancers) but there is nothing stopping you from playing them like a High Elf team, especially for the first dozen games.

 

[Barninho]

Well I should definitely be getting better luck on my injury results soon right? Just the law of averages. Strangely enough I went five games straight without having to retire a halfling...

I was kidding about not playing elf teams. I still love them. I used to have a pretty good delf team on the old game (had +AG blitzer and short-lived Multi Block assass), but this was my first outing since cyanide came out with them. Having said that Smurf, I'm sure another whupping from you will teach me a thing or seven.

I kind of know what Max means. The thing about Dark Elves is that if you've always played elves and then switch to Dark Elves your initial instincts are going to be wrong. They play in a very unique-feeling way with a lot of flexibility. I played a dark elf team with high elves the other day and edged it 2-1. and this player clearly thought passing was the way to go (his first game with them). I made the same mistake when I started playing them, and I wouldn't be surprised if its fairly common. I think of them more as an uber-human team. There seems to be a lot of different ways you can take a Dark Elf team.

 

[Netsmurf]

I would only make a pass with DE if I was forced to do it, or hunting for SPP. They are the running elfs and should not be played like a throwing team, if you want to do that and still have the armour then go for the HELF.

 

[coachman]

After playing WoE and Elf I prefer the woodelf.

The Elf catcher is amazing. He will catch the ball any where. Having said that it is stressful until you have 16 ssp to blodge. He catches everything but expect to burn rerolls on failed dodges.

Out of the box the woodelf catcher has dodge and catch. Even marked he has a reroll to catch but then also gets the reroll to dodge away.

I would argue that the thrower is more important than the catcher. Any Elf can catch on a 2, catch comes into its own only when heavily marked or making interceptions. If heavily marked then pass to someone else. Safe throw should not be needed if you play right. I love the MV 7 thrower for WoE, it cuts the pass range, allows the ball to be collected easily and lets you dodge away before catching as he can make up the distance. Its not very often a Woodelf thrower cant reach the endzone with the bomb.

With blodge, leap and agi 4 Wardancers make excellent catchers, even better than the elf catcher. But wardancers are good at everything.

My preference in elf teams is Darkelf>Woodelf>Proelf>Highelf. But I hate high elves in every game.