Necromantic Looking for a little advice

Street

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If someone is pushed into another player who has standfirm then no one moves.

I believe the player who owns the standfirm player cannot even choose to not use standfirm. (Someone correct me on this part if I am wrong)

In E1: You can choose to push B into D but D and B will then not move.

E2: Regardless of who you choose to push B into no one will move

E3: Standfirm has no impact here, if D was instead a C here A would have to push B off the pitch in this situation regardless.

Hopefully I worded that in a clear enough fashion.
 
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o8oo Anarch

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Pretty common sense but better to know than be guessing mid match. Thanks you cleared it up for me :)
 

timdog

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Related question: if the pusher has Juggernaught, does it push through the person being pushed to also push the Stand firm guy? Or is the stand firm guy protected by the chump who's actually being pushed?
 

NieA7

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I believe the player who owns the standfirm player cannot even choose to not use standfirm. (Someone correct me on this part if I am wrong)

This is both right and annoying. Cyanide is correctly following the CRP in what happens ("If a player is pushed back into a player using Stand Firm then neither player moves"), but you should have the option of whether to use the skill at all, which you don't get even if you've set it to ask (which you should be the way, sometimes it's useful to have the golem's pushed back - if they get blocked by a tree that takes root, for example).

Related question: if the pusher has Juggernaught, does it push through the person being pushed to also push the Stand firm guy? Or is the stand firm guy protected by the chump who's actually being pushed?

I don't believe juggs makes any difference in this case - it can turn a :bothdown: into a :pushback:, but after it's done that it's exactly the same as if you'd rolled a :pushback: to begin with.
 
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danton

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This is both right and annoying. Cyanide is correctly following the CRP in what happens ("If a player is pushed back into a player using Stand Firm then neither player moves"), but you should have the option of whether to use the skill at all, which you don't get even if you've set it to ask (which you should be the way, sometimes it's useful to have the golem's pushed back - if they get blocked by a tree that takes root, for example).

You can deactivate the skill on the player with Stand Firm before the block happens by double clicking on that player's skill window. It's not a good UI for this type of thing though, as you need to see the chain push coming and deactivate it before the action occurs.

Once the block takes place it's too late to deactivate the skill, but there is at least a way to not use the skill in this type of situation if you see it coming.
 

NieA7

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Oh, like tackle is it? Handy to know, though I doubt I'll remember in the heat of the moment. Thanks Danton :)
 

Nikolai II

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Finally there's nothing much you can do to prevent a TTM touchdown - line all your players up across the back of the field two squares from the endzone to force as many dodge rolls as possible and pray.

That's the simplest defense against a one-turn-touchdown, but not against a throw-team-mate tocuhdown.

Against TTM you should put your players loosely on your midfield, where the player is likely to land, so there is a tacklezone in each square they are likely to hit, and even more dodges to make.

(And if they aim to toss into a wide zone they can either scatter into the midfield anyway, or risk scattering off the pitch, plus they increase the risk not being able to get the ball to the player to be thrown if they set up to the side.
 

NieA7

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Against TTM you should put your players loosely on your midfield, where the player is likely to land, so there is a tacklezone in each square they are likely to hit, and even more dodges to make.

Very true, though you also need to weigh up how happy you are to potentially have a star of yours get a 'fling to the face. I've seen a player get killed that way so I tend to be more conservative, especially against 'flings with their lower movement who are likely to scatter out of reach anyway.
 

timdog

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This is both right and annoying. Cyanide is correctly following the CRP in what happens ("If a player is pushed back into a player using Stand Firm then neither player moves"), but you should have the option of whether to use the skill at all, which you don't get even if you've set it to ask (which you should be the way, sometimes it's useful to have the golem's pushed back - if they get blocked by a tree that takes root, for example).



I don't believe juggs makes any difference in this case - it can turn a :bothdown: into a :pushback:, but after it's done that it's exactly the same as if you'd rolled a :pushback: to begin with.

But juggs let you push a SF guy, whcih you cannot do without it. So my question remains: can you push that SF guy out of the way with Juggs if there's someone you are pushing in the way? I'd guess no, but not sure.
 

St Cloud

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My take is that the Juggs only applies to the player that is blitzed. The wording of the rule isn't conclusive though.
 

crimsonsun

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That's how it works in game, Juggs only takes effect against the Model being hit not other models next to the target...
 

NieA7

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That's how it works in game, Juggs only takes effect against the Model being hit not other models next to the target...

That's what I meant, though I've never seen it happen to know how Cyanide have implemented it.
 

Nikolai II

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Very true, though you also need to weigh up how happy you are to potentially have a star of yours get a 'fling to the face. I've seen a player get killed that way so I tend to be more conservative, especially against 'flings with their lower movement who are likely to scatter out of reach anyway.

If so, then he died to give you the win.

And you don't need to put your players so far away from the endzone that the flings wouldn't be able to score if they land on him..
 

o8oo Anarch

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So I attempted to apply all that had learned here (and a little advice from some stinky, flea bearded dwarves) againt the halflings.

I would like to thank you all very kindly for assisting in Southwest Voodoo's 1st win :D. It seemed that everytime anyone went near a hafling that it went off the pitch until by the 2nd half I was twice left with just treemen on field. I was also aided by what seemed everytime my opponent tried to roll any dice he got a turn over, I really did feel for bestbitter :(.

Both wights, wolf and ghoul have leveled I believe :) 140k in the bank.

Up next... skaven! I'm anticipating my toughest match up yet. I'm looking at some serious inducements this match for sure.

So update as skill-up results are in :D
Both wights and the ghoul standard skill choice, wolf got standard or +1 agility. Wights I'm fairly certian both should take guard, ghoul I'm leaning towards sure hands but block might be nice? As for the wolf I'm very torn between Agility or block? Any advice welcome.

Also is now a good time to purchase a 2nd wolf?
 
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timdog

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Take the agility and giggle. hard. They are such a pain with all that movment, when you add an agility they can get like anywhere on the pitch. PITA!!

I'd probably grab tackle or mb on one of the wights and gaurd on the other (tackle only if you are in a high dodge zone for you upcoming games). With mb they get to gaurd fast enough, and it is really nice to start having the increase people leaving the pitch.

Probably think about wrestle on the ghoul assuming you'll want a ball extractor. wrestle now, tackle next, boom, ball extractor.

Edit: Oh and yes, get that second wolf the second you can! one of the best players in the game, you want both up and running
 
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Tjorne

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I generally agree with timdog:
Agi is nice, Guard + MB seems decent (though 2x Guard is also good), wrestle is great for a ball extractor (though against Skaven Sure Hands might be more important).

However, if you take Agi on the wolf (which is great - he gets dodge after block, has MA 8 and eventually could have Sidestep - almost a perfect one-turner who can do lots of other things as well), you might consider putting the second wolf off a bit, since Frenzy without Block is a RR eater machine and you might not want two of those on the pitch. On the other hand, wolves really are great, so getting them early is nice - if you can handle the risks.

Oh, and try to level your Flesh Golems to Block + Guard fast. MB is a nice bonus but in no way essential here.
 

NieA7

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I'd probably lean towards guard on both wights and block on the ghoul (and Ag on the wolf, while laughing maniacally). MB is good on the wights but you really need the support guard can bring, especially if the golems don't have block yet.

I usually build one ghoul as a carrier (block, sure hands, sidestep) and the other as a safety (wrestle, tackle, sidestep), with the carrier first. Personally I'd get block before SH: it keeps them alive longer plus he doubles as a backup blitzer, especially with the wolf not having block yet.
 

tys123

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I agree guard , block and agility.
Necro really needs guard players and the Golems need block first.
 

o8oo Anarch

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Went with double guard, agility and block.

Was a tough choice between block or wrestle but figured I didn't really want my AV7 no regen or apoth constantly laying down to get fouled.

Tacticlly I'm thinking run the ball with the wolf and use ghoul as Blitzer with wights as back-up.

Also got a 2nd wolf. How long he'll last vs Ratogres with Juggernaught and storm vermin with MB/PO is yet to be seen however :/
 

timdog

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If they are fouling your ghoul, that's a win - they are leaving your more awesome players alive :)

Why on this earth are you blitzing with a ghoul??? The wights and were's both need the spp more, and the were's bring a sexy claw to the party. Yes, a little bit of risk due to no block and frenzy, but that's why you use them - to get them skilled up to block! ghouls are safetys and disposable pieces of trash (can you tell i'm not ghoul freindly? lol). and if you are bltizing with him, you should have taken wrestle so he can drop other blockers on the ground to be stomped by your zombies!
 
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