Tactics Skill allocation advice IV

[lawastooshort]

Nice rant, thanks! It probably isn't a lot. I'm not sure I'll get the time to watch replays to find out though...

But now I have to think harder

 

[SovereignStrike]

Let's say you took down your big target to an effective AV of 5. If you foul with sneaky git, you are 33% less likely to get caught on the armor roll. Overall reduction of about 20% or so (off the top of my head).

20k off a 90k piece.

 

[whigwam]

Hello, fair people of BBTactics. I have just rolled a skill-up for my TT league Dark Elves' star Blitzer and I come seeking your wise counsel. He's already got Dodge, AG+, and Leap...and then I had to go and roll a Double for his 4th skill. So, it's time for some hard decisions.

The rest of the team is coming along fairly well, except that my AG+ Blitzer is hogging all the TD's and my Linemen keep dying in record numbers (but hey, hard to complain when they're winning):

1: Witch (Wrestle)
2: Witch (n/a)
3: Blitzer (Dodge, Side Step)
4: Blitzer (Dodge, Side Step, Guard)
5: Blitzer (Dodge, Guard)
6: Blitzer (Dodge, AG+, Leap, ?)
7: Lineman (Kick)
8-11: a small army of journeymen.
3RR​

I'd normally be all over Guard in this situation. After all, he's an Elf who rolled a doubles. Not to mention he's already got Leap and AG5. But...I do already have 2 Guard (which tends to be plenty IME), and I don't have any other players skilled for leaping into a cage to take advantage of a leaping Guard assist. Well, not at the moment anyway.

So, I'm considering Stand Firm (a player who can get anywhere and stay there would be nice and annoying). Could be especially valuable given how much I play the sideline. I'm also considering ignoring the Doubles altogether and taking Strip Ball or Side Step. There's not a ton of Sure Hands in my league, but enough to make me feel iffy about Strip Ball. Plus I'd rather have it on a Wrestling Lineman, I think.

Anyway, that's enough from me. Thoughts?

 

[Tjorne]

What about MB for your Blitzer?
With Agi+, Leap and Dodge he will blitz a lot probably (Ballcarriers and other "nice" targets, probably screened ones quite often which may be "soft"). The same is also a case for taking Tackle, of course... but you'd have to pass on the double, which is a shame.

 

[notafunhater]

You could do MB. If you're wanting to give him strip ball, you could also give a thought to Juggernaut? That would let you strip the ball on 5/6 dice results if he takes Strip on the next roll. With a 2+ leap no ballcarrier would be safe, even on a 2d uphill.

 

[Nikolai II]

Guard.

You can't expect "two's enough" to be enough all games, nor to live forever.

Lacking tackle and room for tackle, his MB will be fairly limited in use.

In comparison - get sidestep next, put leap on a witch, and suddenly you have a duo that can reliably surf people who are hidden behind screens..

 

[Ken]

i like extra arms, he's generic, he can go put a boot in, and if he dies you won't miss him. extra arms let's him go chase a dangerous ball then bring it back to a rat

 

[SovereignStrike]

Guard.

You can't expect "two's enough" to be enough all games, nor to live forever.

Lacking tackle and room for tackle, his MB will be fairly limited in use.

In comparison - get sidestep next, put leap on a witch, and suddenly you have a duo that can reliably surf people who are hidden behind screens..

There's also never "too much guard". It's just not possible. I have 6 on my High Elf team and it's a real boon.

 

[sbr32]

I have 2 -MA Saurus that leveled. At this point I am thinking they will be LoS guys add long as they are around.

The first hit level 2, so I assume block is pretty easy choice.

The second already has block, I wanted break tackle until he hurt his leg as I have none yet, now I'm not sure it's worth it. I do have one with dodge, so he will get bt if he ever hits level 4.

Normally I'd do guard but that isn't as important with leezards.

 

[Tjorne]

If you don't want to give him Guard (why? it's good!), you could put SF on him. That way he is a nuisance to the opponent right where he is - even with MA5.

Firing is an alternative, if you want to play long enough that it matters. Otherwise -MA is not too bad on a few Sauri.

 

[jrpeart]

You do need some Guard with Lizards, especially on LOS guys.

If the guys are going to be LOS guys you should really be looking for Block/Guard/Stand Firm with Dodge on doubles.

If you don't get some Guard then other bashy sides will start to overpower you as they pick up Guard.

 

[JJape]

Hello people. One of my wood-elf linos in New Ogham has survived for surpsisingly long, and difficult level-up question. The guy has wrestle, dodge, +AG for previous skills, and now he rolled double. I am wondering which of the following: Tackle, Leap, Mighty Blow, Guard?

I already have some guard (two linos, one catcher), one agi-5 leaper (War Dancer 1) and one MB-PO blitzer (War Dancer 2). This makes tackle seem the most usefeul choice, as about half of my matches are against elves or skaven, but feels such a waste to not use a double as elves. Any opinions on the matter?

 

[tys123]

Guard and then Leap when he gets to 76.
That way you can get the assist in for the leap into the cage.

The other option would be to ignore the double and go tackle and leap giving you a wrackle to cage break with instead of the dancer.

 

[Nikolai II]

Guard, pretty much, IMO. WD1 takes strip ball next, followed by sidestep or tackle, WD2 takes tackle next.

 

[sbr32]

Thanks for the answers. It's not that I didn't want to take Guard, it is just slightly less useful on Lizards than others and I wasn't sure if there might be something else I hadn't though of. But I think I will go Guard on this one.

 

[JJape]

Thanks for the answers. To be more precise, skills of my War Dancers (very relevant to the topic of whether take leap or not):
1: AGI+, Strip Ball, Tackle, Sidestep
2: MB, PO, tackle, -MV

I tend to keep these quite well protected, and usually send guard-catcher and this lino to pressure the ball carrier early, as opponents are much less likely to target the lino than War Dancers. For this role, tackle and leap would make the most sense. Leaping guard would of course be awesome, but I don`t think the odds are that great for the lino making it to superstar, given his role.

 

[Tjorne]

It's not that I didn't want to take Guard, it is just slightly less useful on Lizards than others [...]

I don't agree here. Guard is essential for Lizards.
Sure, on low TV you outstrength all except Khemri, but as TV rises (even at about 1400+, but more with higher TV), you will increasingly meet teams with higher STR if you consider guard. This means that you loose one of two major advantages (the other being speed) if you don't get Guard. As your skinks hog SPP, your TV will probably rise faster than your Sauri level up. This means that if you don't take Guard early enough at least on every other Saurus (or fire skinks that get skills) you will be outstrengthed, which is very bad for Lizards. On high TV (about 1800+ I'd say) they struggle anyway due to Claw vulnerability (and increasing Tackle skills on opposition, which hurts your skinks), but there is no need to make that worse by ignoring Guard.
Also, as long as you don't have a lot of BT, the Guard players that you do have are quite immobile, i.e. some of them won't be where they are needed at most times. Another reason to have more of them, so the players in the right position have a better chance of being Guard players. (Opposition view: If you have more Guard players, it's harder to keep them all away from the main action.)

tl;dr
Guard is only "slightly less useful on Lizards" at low TV. At mid to high TV they really need it.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[St Cloud]

I don't agree here. Guard is essential for Lizards.
Sure, on low TV you outstrength all except Khemri, but as TV rises (even at about 1400+, but more with higher TV), you will increasingly meet teams with higher STR if you consider guard. This means that you loose one of two major advantages (the other being speed) if you don't get Guard. As your skinks hog SPP, your TV will probably rise faster than your Sauri level up. This means that if you don't take Guard early enough at least on every other Saurus (or fire skinks that get skills) you will be outstrengthed, which is very bad for Lizards. On high TV (about 1800+ I'd say) they struggle anyway due to Claw vulnerability (and increasing Tackle skills on opposition, which hurts your skinks), but there is no need to make that worse by ignoring Guard.
Also, as long as you don't have a lot of BT, the Guard players that you do have are quite immobile, i.e. some of them won't be where they are needed at most times. Another reason to have more of them, so the players in the right position have a better chance of being Guard players. (Opposition view: If you have more Guard players, it's harder to keep them all away from the main action.)

tl;dr
Guard is only "slightly less useful on Lizards" at low TV. At mid to high TV they really need it.

Sorry for the rant...

I agree with Tjorne. But the Saurii need so many skills i am not sure that guard spam is the way to go. With Block being a given first the also really need some Tackle & MB with SF def. not surplus to requirements. For me however it's Break Tackle that is the mid TV skill to take.

On my UKBBL Team that has made it to the premiership, my first 3 or 4 Saurii went Block and then BT with Guard, Tackle & MB the next options. And i haven't regreted it. Keeping the Saurii mobile is the key to the Lizard offense, giving you a very mobile cage. And to the defense as well (with the help of some DT, SS Skinks of course).

I have started to pick up some more guard now. Not because i was struggling with the bashers, but because i couldn't protect the BC against nasty WE & DE leapers and was always faceing 2d blitzes.

With only dodge on a double being of any real use (or more use then the normal rolls) it's more of a question when to take which skill for the Saurii i feel.

 

[Nikolai II]

Leaping guard would of course be awesome, but I don`t think the odds are that great for the lino making it to superstar, given his role.

Then change his role. A harassing lino just needs wrestle, with dodge, sidestep and tackle as bonus improvements so it's easy to give that job to a new guy.

 

[Tjorne]

I agree with Tjorne. But the Saurii need so many skills i am not sure that guard spam is the way to go. With Block being a given first the also really need some Tackle & MB with SF def. not surplus to requirements. For me however ist Break Tackle that is the mid TV skill to take.

On my UKBBL Team that has made it to the premiership, my first 3 or 4 Saurii went Block and then BT with Guard, Tackle & MB the next options. And i haven't regreted it. Keeping the Saurii mobile is the key to the Lizard offense, giving you a very mobile cage. And to the defense as well (with the help of some DT, SS Skinks of course).

I have started to pick up some more guard now. Not because i was struggling with the bashers, but because i couldn't protect the BC against nasty WE & DE leapers and was always faceing 2d blitzes.

With only dodge on a double being of any real use (or more use then the normal rolls) ist more of a question when to take which skill for the Saurii i feel.

I agree, too.

There are many important skills for Sauri, and Guard is only one of them. (BT probably about equally important.)
Obviously, Block is more important. For this particular Saurus (with MA 5) the question of BT or Guard next (or MB or Tackle) is clearly in favour of Guard due to his lower maneuverability. Guard is needed somewhere (as we agree), and the other skills are better suited for faster players. SF is the only alternative worth considering IMO, because BT and Tackle loose value if MA is lower and MB is better for generally uninjured players whom you want to gain SPP faster (and more).
After Block and Guard, he could go on with SF or Tackle or MB, depending on the needs of the team and league then. (For other Sauri the order may be different, and some early BT is valuable as well on them.)