Tactics Skill Allocation Advice VI

[jrpeart]

Damn. I was talking to Fallowheart last night and he suggested Frenzy. Haven't yet made the choice and now I'm seriously wondering about Frenzy or maybe even just taking Leap and using it for desperate emergencies.

Frenzy is horrible with Strip Ball players. You want your strip ball player to get pushes on the ball carrier. Frenzy leads to follow up blocks on pushes which can cause turnovers after you've just knocked the ball free.

 

[SirSebstar]

frenzy helps with knockdowns, strip ball only works if you dont knockdown so yea, not the best synergy as jrpeart said.
You have wrestle and tackle, so you dont really get a use from juggernaut(which does have synergy with strip ball)
its a doubles on a nurgle pestigors so leap can be good. i dont think he will get a new skill but Very long legs or AG would be my choice then.
leap on a 4+ is a bit tricky though.
dodge will keep your player functioning much longer and can help you rr that dodge for the blitz for free.
sidestep with wrestle is not that strong, but can break open a corner.
diving tackle is a great skill on anything but the sacker since you can be sure you are going to be blitzed away, with wrestle not a great idea.

from here on out its personal preferance, i think dodge is better. if their ballcatcher is out in the open and they cannot protect him well enough i would put a tackle zone on the sacker and one in his way and force those 2 3+ dodges, but with a free reroll thats a lot more likely to succeed.
so dodge prob over sidestep(where it only works if he gets hit)
and leap if you find yourself unable to break the cage, but accept a 4+ to give it a spin, esp usefull with the horns blitz so 2d on the ballcarrier is good too.
negatives on the frenzy or diving tackle for reasons mentioned above
seb

 

[Sleepyjer]

More broken skaven advice needed! Got standard linerats and killer Svs. So gutter runners got:

+1mv two heads Ss blodger with sure feet

Blodger

Wrodger

So last one rolled +1 agi. Fine but didn't look after them very well so now have -1mvt.

Fire? Turn him into a specialist retriever distributed? Sacker?

 

[Znarx]

I want to address the myth that sidestep only works if your player gets hit. It also works on chain pushes, so it can be a good offensive or defensive skill even on players that shouldn't get hit.

And sackers are going to get hit a lot, because you're often hitting the ball carrier in a crowd. If you pop the ball loose and you're still next to an opposing player, you're probably not going to risk the turnover by dodging away. This is especially true if you are AG 3. So you're probably getting hit the next turn.

That said, I would probably take Dodge on the Beastman. You can take Stand Firm on a single roll, and it overlaps in usefulness with Sidestep, and doesn't raise TV as much. I would definitely not take Diving Tackle. You want that one someone who is not your sackers.

 

[Znarx]

You want to use your MA 9 AG 5 Gutter Runner as a ball retriever. The move bust hurts, to be sure, but the extra agility makes it much easier to pick up the ball in tackle zones or rain. And MA 8 is usually plenty to get to where the ball is. Take Sure Hands and Leap in some order on this player after he hs Block or Wrestle. Maybe Big Hand on doubles.

 

[TravelScrabble]

You can also use him as a ball hawk with wrestle, leap or 2 heads, dauntless/tackle/strip ball in some order

 

[Sleepyjer]

First world skaven problems....

Gr: 10 2 5 7

Block side step.

Next level rolled 3.

Thinking

Leap but then I'm going to be jumping him into an early grave (earlier)

Shadowing but already got one

Sure feet

Any offers?

Just playing in open Ladder so lots of bash

 

[tys123]

I wouldn't take leap as you are already AG5 so it is 3+ with dodge into 2 TZ's anyway and you don't really want him leaping to blitz the guy in the cage as he has block rather than wrestle.
I'd go for sure feet for 1 turning.

 

[Znarx]

There are several things you can do with the Gutter Runner.

Natural one turner: Sprint, sure feet, leap or catch.

Sacker: dauntless, strip ball, tackle. You probably want your sacker to have Wrestle instead if Block, as Tys said.

Ball retriever: sure hands, leap.

AG5 leap is pretty safe, but you may be leaping into situations where you're going to get hit.

 

[Sleepyjer]

I really wanted big hand but didn't think about sure hands...that looks like a winner thanks! Suppose at least two goes at picking it up is like big hands lite

 

[Znarx]

I really wanted big hand but didn't think about sure hands...that looks like a winner thanks! Suppose at least two goes at picking it up is like big hands lite

I'm not sure I would bother with Big Hand on a guy who already is AG5. You can already pick up in one TZ on 2+. And if you have an AG 4 Big Hand player, that player can pick up in any number of TZs on a 2+. Where AG5 with Big Hand can really help is if you need to leap to get the ball in many TZs, but that requires Big Hand and Leap, and you didn't get the double yet for Big Hand.

Sure Hands is nice because you're always going to roll some 1's, and it's good to conserve team rerolls. Plus it protects against Strip Ball, but that's less important on ST2 players because your opponent is more likely to get 2 or even 3 die blocks on your guy, so they're more likely to knock you down outright.

 

[Jav]

Yeah with AG5 I would rather sure hands than big hand.

But with MA10 the best thing this player can be is a natural one turner. It just changes the way skaven can play. With a true one turner your main focus can be on preservation. I start on D when possible, and if nuffle hands me the ball I'll take it. But I will try to isolate a few players on one wing and get the rest of my team out of harms way. Then you can just snipe and hope to get a few lucky casualties (claw/mb helps immensely if you have it).

That makes your opponent decide if they want to move the cage toward where your team is, or to move it downfield. If they split their cage and only move a few guys downfield you can swing back pretty easily and now they don't have enough players caging the ball. If they keep a safe cage you can continue hoping to get a few casualties.

Then if they do score you can score right back fairly reliably and enter the second half tied (hopefully also taking about their best blitzer).

The natural one turner is such a game changing weapon I would never turn it down once I have that MA10...

 

[TravelScrabble]

I don't like relying on the natural one turner as its still sub 80% to score even without taking KO events into account, that's not reliable in my book. Still nice to get one but the aim of Skaven defense should still be to get some key removals and force them to score early, then with MA 10 you can usually 2 turn with quite a bit better odds than you can one turn. Ovisouly if plan A fails you have the one turn as backup.

 

[Sleepyjer]

I took sure hands and really helps with pick ups in open play. Haven't regretted it. But then I've come against teams with spammed guard and stand firm on str 4 players difficult to get any pushes. Plus seem to get a lot of perfect defences or blitzes which just nerfs one turns. Though I did manage a one turn against a guard dwarf team who had blitz...proud moment. In summary I think the having a functional gr who helps normally means you're not relying on a turn 8 to score...which is never certain. I'll get sure feet next rather than sprint. Gfis are killers. That's if he lives.,,

 

[Jav]

A one turner is never certain for sure, but being able to set up for two potential one turners (a natural one turner and a pushable one turner) really makes defending them difficult. I generally don't mind playing with just 3 gutters on the first defensive drive (if its in the first half) either, as I would rather have more linerat meat shields. With four gutters if you lose two linerats on the LOS hits you suddenly can't protect enough players at mid to high TV...

 

[TravelScrabble]

Lots of players have that philosophy but I'm not sold, I want my four agi 4 on defense, they protect themselves with their speed. Usually you need 3 linerats to protect your players and you have 5 so you can afford to lose a couple

 

[Orielensis]

Right, read it and weep boys!

Dubskullz the amazing underworld troll has block and two-cas'd and mvp'd his way to rolling 12 for his second level. Here is the team:

http://www.bb2leaguemanager.com/Leaderboard/team_detail.php?team_id=1621595&community_id=11

Probably impossible to turn it down but:

1. I really, really wanted claw!

2. There are two great doubles choices available in dodge or pro.

Pidpad sensei (from OCC) thinks this strength up destines him to go tentacles, stand firm next two levels and that sounds sensible. BUT THEN HE MAY NEVER WIELD THE CLAW!!!

 

[Regor]

Right, read it and weep boys!

Dubskullz the amazing underworld troll has block and two-cas'd and mvp'd his way to rolling 12 for his second level. Here is the team:

http://www.bb2leaguemanager.com/Leaderboard/team_detail.php?team_id=1621595&community_id=11

Probably impossible to turn it down but:

1. I really, really wanted claw!

2. There are two great doubles choices available in dodge or pro.

Pidpad sensei (from OCC) thinks this strength up destines him to go tentacles, stand firm next two levels and that sounds sensible. BUT THEN HE MAY NEVER WIELD THE CLAW!!!

i would go to +ST, as he have block too, a great player with SF and tentacles

 

[Ravers]

plus Str, then Tents, Claw, Multi Block, Stand Firm!

 

[Veggente85]

Right, read it and weep boys!

Dubskullz the amazing underworld troll has block and two-cas'd and mvp'd his way to rolling 12 for his second level. Here is the team:

http://www.bb2leaguemanager.com/Leaderboard/team_detail.php?team_id=1621595&community_id=11

Probably impossible to turn it down but:

1. I really, really wanted claw!

2. There are two great doubles choices available in dodge or pro.

Pidpad sensei (from OCC) thinks this strength up destines him to go tentacles, stand firm next two levels and that sounds sensible. BUT THEN HE MAY NEVER WIELD THE CLAW!!!

STR and then tents all the way. You have the rats for the claws.