Lizardman Lizardmen team development notes

Acipenser

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As I intimated in my greetings thread, here is a thread for my currrent league lizardmen.

The team is as follows:
#1 Saurus with 5 SPP
#2 Saurus with Block and 11 SPP
#3 Saurus with Block and 7 SPP
#4 Saurus with Block, -MA and 9 SPP
#5 Saurus with Block and 13 SPP
#6 Saurus with Block and 13 SPP
#7 Skink with Side Step and 6 SPP
#8 Skink with Catch, (3,3) and 17 SPP
#9 Skink with +MA, Sure Feet, (4,1) and 40 SPP
#10 Skink with Catch and 13 SPP
#11 Skink with Side Step and Diving Tackle and 18 SPP
#12 Skink with 0 SPP
#16 Kroxigor with Stand Firm, Block and 16 SPP

Apothecary, 9 FF, 4 rerolls, 1 assistant coach and 1 cheerleader.
Team Value is 1 720 000 with 200 000 in the treasury.

Obviously, developmentwise I'll be trying to skill up the Sauri and the Kroxigor. Otherwise, the skinks are used as markers, ball carriers and mobile assists while the Sauri do the heavy lifting. The Krox is a roadblock, and choosing Stand Firm has been very useful, especially with the Prehensile Tail she has.

Here is a summary of the games played thus far:

First six games wereplayed in the open league with no structure and no final prizes:
1 vs. High Elves, TD 3-0, cas 1-0. A good start.
2 vs. Dark Elves, TD 2-2, cas 6-0. While a draw, the Cas more tham made up for it.
3 vs. Wood elves, TD 2-3, cas 5-2. Lots of good stuff here, although I lost
4 vs. Orcs, TD 1-1, cas 2-3. Got lost in a grind here.
5 vs. Skaven, TD 2-2, cas 2-1. *#@¤! those Gutter Runners!
6 vs. Chaos, TD 1-1, cas 4-2. Good game, but they really started killing me in the second half. Luckily, nothing permanent (except for 1 dead skink, but that got apo'ed)

Now, the real league matches (the league is 6 games long with 2 more for the semifinals and finals):

Match 1 (sep2010): vs. Orcs (same ones I'd played and drawn before)
I won 3-1, but lost the casualties 0-4. This game caused the -MA to my saurus #4. The apo tried to make it better, but only succeeded in making it a niggle. I preferred the -MA.

Match 2 (oct2010): vs. the Undead. I won 1-0, and caused two casualties, while receiving none. The opponent was relatively inexpeienced, but I also rolled very well on armor penetration, with a lot of his zombies in KO. Still, a good game with many good moments. The second half was especially interesting with a succesful use of an asymmetrical defense lineup. It caused the corpses to set up on one side, and I managed to bog them down in a grind that lasted the entire half.

November's match will be against a Goblin team, which I expect will be both fun and interesting. They will have a LOT of inducement gold, unless they perform remarkably well in their October match versus the orcs previously mentioned.
 
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Coach

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Good Luck with the team, good to see you got out of that habit of drawing your matches!

How come you only play one match a month, will take a while to play the league won't it? How many matches in total is the league and what are the other races in it?
 

Acipenser

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Yup, the league will end in April 2011.

It's about schedules. Most of the players can't really play more than once a month, so the structured league is long. We're running an open league alongside, where more active players can play with other teams to develop them for the next structured league. I have a TV 1640 Chaos team and a newbie human team in the open league.

The league itself is 16 teams, with 6 matches and then the semifinals and final match. Teams are:

Lizardman
Goblin
Orc x 2
Chaos x 2
Dwarf
Chaos Dwarf
Norse x 2
High Elf
Goblin
Undead
Ogre
Human
Skaven

Kinda bashy, huh?

They are split into 4 quarters of four teams. First three months each quarter plays all teams in itself, then they are mixed into new quarters: the winner of Q1, the second of Q2, the third of Q3 and the fourth of Q4 will make up the new first quarter, and so forth. Then the new quarters will play one match against each other, and the winners of the final quarters will go on to the semifinals.

Winning a quarter is determined by points, you get 3 points for winning a match and 1 point for a draw. A draw in points is settled by the result of the mutual match. If it was drawn, then the winner of the team with a higher TD's for / TD's against ratio (and then by Casualty ratio, and if even that is drawn - by flipping a coin).

At the moment, I'm first in my quarter with six points. If the Goblin team loses its October match, I'll win the quarter for sure. I they actually win the orcs they're facing next, I'll just have to not lose to be first. So things are looking good.
 

Acipenser

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Sure, I'd like another Elf team here.

An actual developement question, BTW. What do you guys think about the -MA Saurus? Should he get the boot? I would have enough cash to replace him after the next match, but I hate to see even 7 SPP wasted.
 

mepmuff

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I'd keep him. I wouldn't expext an unskilled suarus in this team to skill up before the play-offs and Block on this guy helps you more than MA 6.
 

Coach

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Sound reasoning from mepmuff, I agree with that so would suggest keeping him.
 

Acipenser

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That's the way I was thinking too. Maybe, if I continue using this team in the next league or in the open league I'll give him the boot, but as it stands he'll be staying.
 

mepmuff

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A few permanent injuries also add character. Playing my dark elves does give me the idea there's a sensibility limit to that though.... :eek: ;)

Bloodbowl NL
 

Acipenser

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Next game

November is here, and my Lizardmen are scheduled to play against a Goblin team. I have one question on my mind: defensive tactics. When defending, I'm expecting to face a fanatic and at least two trolls. The opposition wil have at least 400k in inducements - I expect Ripper and a chainsaw, maybe bribes.

The real question is: what to put on the line? Oddswise, it's better to use dodgers - and put three Skinks on the LoS, but if they go down, It'll be likelier they'll go out.

The players I'm considering to put on the line are:

Skink with no skills, no spp
Skink with Catch, 13 spp
Skink with Side Step, 6 spp
2 x Saurus with no skills, 2 spp
Saurus with block, -MA, 7 spp

See the roster for other possibilities. I'll (probably) not risk my Krox or the twice skilled skinks.

Also, opinions for general defensive tactics are appreciated.
 

Coach

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Chainsaw will ruin Skinks and both the Trolls and Fanatic get three dice blocks against them. So odds are they will go down.

Against Saurus they will only get two dice blocks which they will turnover 1 in 9 times as they lack block. If they do knock them over then you have AV9 for them to break. Chainsaw is more likely to break armour but they don't have Stunty meaning injury is less likely.

I would look to hit the Chainsaw asap so that he injures himself. Go after his Goblins with your Block players, obviously if he sets up Secret Weapons on your offence then scoring will get them sent off.
 

Runi

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I don't think he will put a chainsaw on the line. At least I wouldn't. It's much too dangerous if not all opponents are knocked over and besides a chainsaw wielder who is free for blitzing is sooo much more useful than one on the line.

So I agree with coach to put the Sauri on the line. But not more than three. Try to get the chainsaw out as quickly as possible and bash all the normal Goblins. They are the ones who are potential scorers, so don't worry about the trolls so much.
 

Acipenser

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Thanks for the feedback, Coach.

I'm just considering that the chance of a succesful knockdown versus dodge (.421) is smaller than that of two dice versus block (.556), since he lacks block. And a knockdown even with no armour penetration will mean a foul.

Obviously the chainsaw is dangerous, especially to skinks. My plan is to score asap if he sets up multiple secret weapons - and knocking down his chainsaw if possible. The problem with the latter is that he'll probably induce Nobbla Blackwart as well as Ripper, and a Blodger is hard to take down with no Wrestle and no Tackle. On the other hand if he does he'll have little budget for Bribes - and getting rid of the saw by rapid scoring will be possible.
 

Acipenser

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Whoo, a reply while typing mine. Thanks Runi!

I guess It'll be Sauri on the line then. I was thinking of spreading them out two spaces apart to avoid the Fanatic autohitting with his first move. He might get a three-die block on one of them if he gets a lot of assists there, but he'll have to use a lot of bodies to do that.

Some details on the opposition (he hasn't updated his public roster yet, so Idon't know about any purchases he might have made):

8 gobbos, no skill
fanatic
Pogoer is MNG
2 trolls
apo
4 FF
4 RR
940k TV (though he has at least 80k to spend)
So I may be facing two chainsaws instead of one and (in recalculation) over 600k in inducements. Probably Ripper and Nobbla (he's been using them in previous games), aside from that I don't know.
 

Netsmurf

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I would put blockers on LOS. Fanatic does not have it and normaly neither does trolls, this creates the chance of an early turnover or the use of rerolls very fast. Defencive use your movement to get to any gobbo in your half. Force him to make a lot of dodges and when kicking be sure to have a five player line six squares from LOS, placed so that any gobbo will have to dodge to get by. And furthermore will most likely suffer from TZ´s when landing.

Rest of the time just enjoy smacking the little green ones, your skinks should never go near LOS, your strong dudes have AV9, that will save them alot.
 

Acipenser

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Thanks Netsmurf. I don't think I'll risk the blockers on the LOS because of the chainsaw(s?). He doesn't have Block, and thus will not choose a block result even against non-blockers.

Sound advice on anti-TTM tactics, thanks. I've been thinking of that, too. I'll try to use my Krox and my one DT skink to make it as hard as possible for him to go through the line.

Something like this:

[PLAY-CREATOR]7267[/PLAY-CREATOR]
 
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Coach

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You need to make your play public in order for it to display on here from play creator.
 

Acipenser

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Match report vs. Goblins

Finally got the goblin match played, took a lot of scheduling and rescheduling.

His team: fanatic, looney, both trolls, 8 goblins and an induced Ripper. So three trolls and a fanatic. Inducements for him were two bribes, a BBabe, Ripper and two 100k cards. (Our league gives all players a free random 50k card for each match, which can be upgraded to a higher value with inducements.) 15000 lizard fans show up, overwhelming the 10000 goblins in the stands. The weather is nice.

I win the toss, so he gets to defend. Two regular trolls and a lone gobbo go on the LoS, with the chainsaw behind them, obviously hoping for a blitz. Ripper and Fanatic are on the wide zones. Unfortunately (for him) it didn't happen. Kickoff is Brilliant Coaching, I get the reroll.

H1T1 - I push back all three LoS players and blitz the Looney, stunning him. Then I set up a defensive screen and run a skink to pick up the ball, promptly failing with reroll. Goblins rally with the trolls moving to mark my front line, and a blitz sends a saurus (with Block) to the infirmary, badly hurt. Fanatic moves closer.

H1T2 - I block the trolls away and move the defensive line a bit forward. Two Skinks slip past his defence going deep into the field. This time I manage to pick up the ball, and move into the protective cover. Goblins come to mark again, ripper pushes the krox back. Looney blitzes a saurus but fails to penetrate armour. Fanatic pushes back another one. Goblins mark my forward Skinks.

H1T3 - I'm hemmed in by three Trolls, a Fanatic and a chainsaw. Time to kick ass. Saurus blocks the looney, killing him outright (the apothecary saves him). Another saurus knocks down the Fanatic, badly hurting him. I knock down one of the regular Trolls, and push back the other. Krox boneheads and looks silly. Ballcarrier moves a bit forward, but hasn't yet passed the midline. I any case, the two secret weapons are out so, I can take my time on this drive. I try to dodge away the forward Skinks, but the first dodge fails miserably. Goblins try to hem me in again, but with no Fanatic, it's not as easy. Ripper does manage to knock down the krox, stunning it. The other troll blitzes and manages to mark the ball carrier skink. Goblins knock down my other forward skink, and the other one is fouled and stunned.

H1T4 - Again his positioning is not perfect, so I manage to knock down both Trolls and move the cage up into his side of the field. He blitzes Ripper to mark my carrier, and dodges another goblin into the cage. Another goblin fouls the previously fouled skink, this time badly hurting it. One of the trolls is Stupid, the other moves closer.

H1T5 - Krox gets up and moves to mark Ripper, and the goblin marking my ball carrier is knocked away, chainpushing Ripper back from the carrier. Cage moves forward. Sauri mark goblins. One of the trolls blitzes himself into the cage, Ripper fails to push back my Krox. Goblin dodges away from saurus and cracks his skull in the process. (This is the same goblin who fouled my skink.)

H1T6 - Cage moves forward, a whole lot of pushing going on. Two Skinks are the top corners of the cage to act as hand-off receivers in case of carrier marking. Ripper blitzes into the cage, three goblins mark the skinks at the top of the cage like this:

G - G - G
- s - s -
- - B - -
- R S S-
G- Goblin, R- Ripper, s- skink, B- ballcarrier, S- Saurus

H1T7 - Saurus blitzes away the rightmost goblin (pushing it back), the leftmost skink knocks the middle goblin down and the ball is handed of to the free skink, who runs and makes a touchdown. Referee fails to be impressed by the goblin bribe, and the Looney is in the dungeon for the rest of the game.

H1(d2)T7 - Defensive setup, three Sauri on the LoS widely spaced, the rest as follows (four squares in).

- S - - |s - s - s - K| - - S -
- - - - | - - - - - - - | - - - -
- - - - | s - - s - - s| - - - -

Ball is a high kick, a goblin sets up to receive. Trolls on the front line, gobbos behind. One gobbo set up between two trolls to be thrown. He has two turns, so he decides to block the front line first. One saurus goes down, two are pushed back. Trolls follow. Gobbo tries to pick up the ball but fails - with reroll.

H1T8 - Krox and a saurus go to mark the troll with goblins next to it, another saurus tris to chainpush goblins away from troll, but only manage to get one away. A skink runs through the front line and picks up the ball, dodges away but fumbles the pass to another skink. Trolls block (except the thrower-troll) but fail to do anything. Gobbo goes to pick up the ball, succeeds but fails to dodge away as the skink next to the ball has Diving Tackle. Half ends.

Second half starts with me kicking again. I set up with three Sauri on the front line and the skinks behind a secondary wide line of saurus-krox-saurus. Goblins set up with the trolls on the LoS. Kickoff is Cheering Fans, and I get the reroll again.

H2T1 - Goblins push back my front line, knocking one Saurus down. Another goblin goes to pick up the ball far in the backfield. The rest set up close to the LoS. Krox goes to mark the middle troll, the other troll is knocked down, and four of the five skinks go in to the goblins' half to contest the ball. Ripper is marked by a saurus, and the other four sauri are with the other two trolls.

H2T2 - Ripper Blitzes loose with a pushback, and moves back. Goblins form a cage. One of the trolls goes nearer to the cage, while the other one is Stupid and stays down. My card goes into play - the two of spades - blatant foul. The backfield skink runs up and fouls the downed troll into MNG. He regenerates, of course. The rest of my team proceed to knock down the other troll, mark up the cage and dodge next to the ball carrier, and blitz away the only goblin next to the downed Troll.

H2T3 - Things look grim for the goblins. He blocks the marking skink out of the cage and tries his utmost to block my Sauri away, but fails. Amazingly, the troll is not stupid and gets up to mark a saurus. Sadly for the Goblins, I dodge a skink into the cage and blitz his ball carrier down (1 die, no block, no reroll used! Boomya!) The ball drops to my skink, who fails the catch. It bounces to a Saurus, who catches it in a blaze of inspiration (and luck). I block away the only goblin next to said Saurus and run the saurus away far enough to avoid any blitzes (don't want to risk a GFI).

H2T4 - Ripper and troll block and the troll manages to kill a saurus. (He'll only miss the next game. Signed: apothecary.) Goblins try to dodge away and fail. I have a blockfest, badly hurting another gobbo. Saurus runs in the TD.

2nd drive: Setup much like the previous one. Kickoff is weather, and the ball bounces twice in the midfield.

H2T5 - Trolls block, goblins fail to pick up. Sauri and Krox go to work, knocking one troll down and marking them all. Four skinks go into the goblins' side.

H2T6 - Trolls block, goblins fail the pickup again. Skinks close in and fail their pickup. Much hitting between the bruisers, but not much happening. Skinks mark the ball closely. Goblins play their cards, preventing me from using my rerolls for two turns, and the whole enemy team getting Foul Appearance and Disturbing Prescense for this one.

H2T7 - Goblins try to block the skink next to the ball, but he has SS, and goes onto the ball, unfortunately knocking it loose from the other two (the only square!). Goblin fails to pick up. Again, a lot of blocking, not much happening. The drive's evolved into a skinks versus goblins match. Skinks win, knocking one goblin away from the ball, while another skinks manages the pickup (with no reroll), dodges away and makes the goal.

H2T8 - Trolls fail their one-turner by failing the pickup. I do nothing effective.

Final score is a 3-0 win, with casualties 5-3 for me. More fans, 50k gold, the MNG saurus gets the MVP and gets Block. Goblin MVP goes to the goblin who dodged himself a serious injury, proving that blood bowl umpires do in fact have a sense of humour.

Next match is against either Chaos or Chaos Dwarves, depending on the result of their mutual match (which should be played very soon). Expect a report in December. I've updated the roster in the first post, so you can see the current team.

One question: should I buy another Skink for the next match or save my money in case of Saurus or Krox casualties? I will have 12 players available, but I expect heavy casualties, especially if against CD's. If it's Chaos I'm against, I'll probably skip the extra TV since they don't have tackle on the team.
 

Netsmurf

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I would save the money and run... Ehh and perhaps look at your opponents roster and see if a few assitant coaches and cheerleaders might be the thing to secure you any kickoff rerolls. Not so much for you, but denighing the enemy has a good effect. Normaly I get 2 of each as it is only 40k TV but a very big modifyer on a D3 roll.
 
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