Necromantic First 'proper' league

Barninho

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Hi everyone. This is kind of an SOS.

For the first time I'm going to be entering what I would call a 'proper' league. I'm going to be in the UKBBL and I wanted to play one of the Legendary edition teams. I haven't got a great deal of experience on-line. Nevertheless I decided to be ambitious and plump for the Necromantic team, who are obviously going to be a challenge but at least seem to share some similarities with my beloved Dark Elves.

My reasons are I thought of a cool name - Deceased Lightning, and thought it would be a shame to let it go to waste. Learning the game is more important to me than winning every game, and I thought it'd be nice to let the good people at UKBBL know nice and early. Also not many Necro's have applied, so I thought they might be a handful for some people who like me aren't used to playing against them once I get used to the team.

Having said this, I know I'm going to struggle, and it would be quite nice if I wasn't limping through the season with a team roster that got destroyed. I was hoping to get some advice on a starting roster from you guys, and then maybe launch further appeals for help as and when I need it later in the season.

At the moment I'm thinking of going with this starting build.

2 Werewolves 240k
2 Flesh Golems 220k
2 Wights 180k
5 Zombies 200k
2 re-rolls
20k towards a Ghoul.

My reasoning is that Ghouls are likely to level up quicker than others on the roster and this way I start with my more durable players on the pitch which hopefully will help in this regard. I could use one of the Werewolves as a ball carrier initially and hopefully have a couple of protection skills on the team by the time my first Ghoul arrives.

2 re-rolls may or may not be a lot but I figure by starting with 2 I'll have to be more disciplined with them and this can only help my game in the long run.

As for wriggle room I guess another alternative would be this Ghoul inclusive build.

1 Werewolf 120k
2 Flesh Golems 220k
2 Wights 180k
1 Ghoul 70k
4 re-rolls 280k
40k towards a werewolf.

The advantage here is the two extra re-rolls obviously, although I do like the idea of double-wolves to start with and that is unquestionably my preferred build at the moment.

There is no way I can get my head around starting without both Flesh Golems and both Wights as I wouldn't want to do without the Golem's ST4 and the Wights Block.

Also anyone who can give me advice on good plays to try with them (especially early on when caging is difficult) is going to become a personal hero of mine.

Got until December 1st to practice with them, (cue Rocky-style training montage). I know I've given myself a challenge, but I'd rather be a plucky underdog than an all-conquering hero. Actually scratch that last comment it's bollocks. Help!
 
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Murkglow

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I don't know if I can help you with how to play the team (I don't have any deep insights regarding that) but roster wise I do have some personal opinions.

First of all I totally agree with you regarding starting with both Golems and both Wights. They bring alot of very helpful fighting ability to your new team and it's good to get some skills on your Golems early anyway.

One thing I don't agree with on your first team however is only starting with 2 rerolls. Necro rerolls are not only very expensive but also quite necessary. You only have 2 guys with Block starting out and not one player on your team starts with better then 3 agility meaning you really need to save a reroll for picking up the ball. To me 3 or 4 rerolls is a must.

Finally, while Werewolves and Ghouls are cool and fun they are also your easiest guys to skill up later on (as they will be doing all of your scoring) so having them right away isn't required.

That leads me to suggesting these builds:

2x Flesh Golem 220k
2x Wights 180k
6x Zombie 240k
1x Ghoul 70k
4x Reroll 280k

Total: 990k

This gives you a very solid base to work with. You've got all the rerolls you need as well as your best blockers. You lack mobility and your ghoul is easy to single out however but still it shouldn't take too long to snap up your second ghoul and start to work on your Werewolves.

~or~

2x Flesh Golem 220k
2x Wights 180k
5x Zombie 200k
1X Ghoul 70k
1x Werewolf 120k
3x Reroll 210k

Total: 1 mil

This teams give a bit more variety early on as you start with a more speed at the cost of a little pinch in reroll count. Again your second Ghoul should come after a few games and then it's a question of getting your second Werewolf or your fourth reroll.
 
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Netsmurf

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I used to start with your build 1, but now I prefer to start with 3 rerolls.

1 wolf
2 golems
2 wights
6 zombies
3 rerolls
and 50k for the next wolf
 

Murkglow

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That's an interesting roster Netsmurf. Could you explain a bit on why you pick a 6th zombie and save money for your second werewolf over getting a ghoul right away?
 

Barninho

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Hmm. One thing I am kind of down on is the Ghouls initially because they can be SPP hogs and also because they're brittle. I did have a sinking feeling I was going to need more re-rolls though.

Netsmurf your roster is the one that currently jumps out at me for that reason, especially as it seems your initial instincts were the same as mine and you have since learned to be more restrained.

Having said that Murk I'm lucky in that I should have a fair bit of time to practice before the season gets underway and I intend to try out lots of builds. Might learn a new appreciation for the Ghoul, but I can just see myself getting into a division where it's all Dwarf, Chaos and Khemri and just having to replace him. Once I've got a bit more block I can help the ghoul out a little better, no?
 

Coach

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The quicker you start the Ghouls the quicker they can get Block. If you leave them to later then other teams will also be better equipped to hurt them. Better to be SPP hogs than to not get SPP at all!

As for play style caging in the way to go, the Golems can tie up players and your team has some speed on it. The more you try it the better you should become, so just play plenty of practice games, even against the AI and you will get a better understanding.
 

Murkglow

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Ghouls being brittle is why they are the first purchase I recommend for both teams (even though I don't recommend starting with both). As Coach said, the quicker you get them on the field with those touchdowns the quicker you can get those valuable skills to toughen them up. At least that's how I see it.
 

VoidSeer

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Hey! I played a 20 games league with the following:

1 Flesh Golem
2 Wight
2 Werewolf
6 Zombie
3 Rerolls
20K Left to bank

This roster is quite close to what you have in mind. I'm not a big necro player, however. But here is my rant about the do and don't of the roster:

1/ Start with 2 werewolves. 1 is just to big of a target
2/ Don't start with ghouls
3/ I feel that 2 rerolls isn't just enough to start with. I now it's a trade off between having a max. number of golems, which is nice as they are dead slow to skill, and having rerolls. My choice was getting 3 rerolls, feeling I had better chances to increase my winnings by wining games.

If you feel confident enough to play with 2 rolls, pick your 1st roster.
 

S1nner

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I have played quite a bit of necro lately, and the best starting roster I found is:

2 Werewolf
2 Flesh Golem
2 Wight
2 Ghoul
3 Zombie
1 Reroll
3k Banked

No amount of rerolls in the world turn a zombie into one of your positionals. If you just can't stand the thought of giving up a turnover from time to time, you can drop a ghoul for a reroll.

As for 'plays', the best general advice I can give you is to do the best you can to keep your Flesh Golems in a good position. They are 11TV each, and because of their low movement and agility, it is easy for them to get pulled out of position and made useless. On offense, make sure they don't get left behind by your faster players; and on defense, make sure your opponent can't just run by them as they cannot play catch-up. Your other players have the skills and/or stats to stay viable as long as they are somewhat close to the action.
 

Murkglow

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Yikes... Only 1 reroll on this team. :eek:

Perhaps it might also help to consider it this way. Say your final goal is all of your positionals +4 rerolls. With the 1 reroll roster you need to buy 3 rerolls which will cost you 420k. If on the other hand you started with 4 rerolls and only had to buy 1 ghoul and 2 werewolves it would only cost you 310k (and you'd have 3 extra zombies to boot which you can keep or fire at any time).

A reroll might not be able to turn a zombie into a positional but then a positional that fails isn't as good as a zombie who succeeds...
 
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S1nner

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Yikes... Only 1 reroll on this team. :eek:

Perhaps it might also help to consider it this way. Say your final goal is all of your positionals +4 rerolls. With the 1 reroll roster you need to buy 3 rerolls which will cost you 420k. If on the other hand you started with 4 rerolls and only had to buy 1 ghoul and 2 werewolves it would only cost you 310k (and you'd have 3 extra zombies to boot which you can keep or fire at any time).

A reroll might not be able to turn a zombie into a positional but then a positional that fails isn't as good as a zombie who succeeds...

The problem is, zombies require more rerolls than your positonals, because they have more dice to roll with a greater chance to fail. If you want to win every game, its easier to play with few rerolls, than give up good players for overpriced useless ones.

Well, zombies do have a use actually, but more than 3 or 4 on the field, and they become redundant.
 

Netsmurf

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I start with no ghouls simply because I love the werewolfs to much. I start with one and use it on defence as hit and run assasin and as my ball carrier on offence. I only have to cage him 3 squares and he is able to score, 5 squares and its without GFI. After two matches I normaly have enough for the second wolf, sometimes already after match one.

The ghouls are nice to get after that. And every penny will be spend on them, they are easy to skill up, so I don´t worry about them in the early team development. I also want my other players to skill up to protect the ghouls before they enter the scene. Hate to spend 70k on a no regen player and not being able to protect them.

6 zombies gives me the advantage of having plenty cheap players to stand in the way of the enemies evil players.
 

Murkglow

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The problem is, zombies require more rerolls than your positonals, because they have more dice to roll with a greater chance to fail.

Uh... What? :confused:

Zombies are just as good at blocking and tieing up players as any other Str 3 guy... So unless you mean picking up the ball (which you would never do with a zombie as the are only Mv4 and you've already got a few better players to do that no matter what roster you use) or GFIs I don't see how zombies would "require" more rerolls then a ghoul or werewolf would...

If you want to win every game, its easier to play with few rerolls, than give up good players for overpriced useless ones.

So zombies are overpriced and useless? At 40k? And it's not exactly "easier to play" with "better players" if you end up failing to pick up the ball multiple turns in a row because you have no rerolls... And it's not like ghouls or werewolves have anything to make them better then a zombie at blocking so you really need to leverage their speed or you're not useing them for their full value (and when you're giving up so many rerolls for that value not getting the most of it is terrible)...

Well, zombies do have a use actually, but more than 3 or 4 on the field, and they become redundant.

They're not redundent they just lend themseles to a slightly different focus then a ghoul/werewolf heavy team does. More of a slow push rather then the quick bursts of speed that can come from a werewolf.

And lets not forget the 4 reroll team will be able to match your positionals before you're able to match their rerolls (and I don't buy that the games in between are going to be that much better to make up for it).

@Netsmurf:
That makes sense. I guess since it's not too out of the question to have the second werewolf by game 3 or so that it might be an option to just go for it. Hmmm....
 
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S1nner

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Uh... What? :confused:

Zombies are just as good at blocking and tieing up players as any other Str 3 guy... So unless you mean picking up the ball (which you would never do with a zombie as the are only Mv4 and you've already got a few better players to do that no matter what roster you use) or GFIs I don't see how zombies would use up more rerolls then a ghoul or werewolf would...
They are not just as good at blocking and tying up players as other Str 3 guys, because you can't always get them where you need them. GFIs are the extra dice I was talking about. If you don't think needless GFIs are a big deal, nothing I can say will stop you from thinking zombies are awesome.

And more than 4 zombies on the field at a time is kinda silly. They do one thing well, and that is mark players. When will you ever want to give away more than 4 blocks in a turn, even if they are just zombies?
 

Murkglow

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They are not just as good at blocking and tying up players as other Str 3 guys, because you can't always get them where you need them. GFIs are the extra dice I was talking about. If you don't think needless GFIs are a big deal, nothing I can say will stop you from thinking zombies are awesome.

I never said Zombies were "awesome", I simply disagreed with you calling the overpriced and useless. And GFIs are not mandatory on them if you move your team well (I play Dwarves all the time, low movement guys are the norm for me...).

And more than 4 zombies on the field at a time is kinda silly. They do one thing well, and that is mark players. When will you ever want to give away more than 4 blocks in a turn, even if they are just zombies?

Even if you don't have them directly on the enemy they can still provide tackle zones... And yes, if I felt it was in my best interest, sure I would allow multiple blocks on zombies. Them knocking down multiple zombies and not getting to my ball carrier and his guards is Ok with me...

Obviously we want to get all out positionals eventually (I'm hardly calling for a permanent all zombie team here) but trade offs have to be made in the name of limited funds. Personally I find cutting rerolls down to 1 to be an unacceptable drop in team reliability while you appearently feel having less then full positionals is not an acceptable loss in "power." I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on those points.
 

Barninho

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Hi all.

Finally got LE active and my mate Ben (who has been playing BB on tabletop for a few years) came round to have a few games. What we normally do is create then export some teams and skill them up to around 2500 TV without telling the other who we chose. Had my first game with Necro which wasn't so helpful in terms of selecting my starting roster but gave me a chance to see what they could be like further down the line. Ben picked Norse and actually added some Frenzy to the roster.

The game started brilliantly as I received and my Golems smashed one side of his defence to bits. Had a nice little run of yellow skulls and the three men I downed were all stunned for two turns. With a 2-ghoul handoff I was into the space and protected on the right hand side. I used my Werewolf to blitz someone into the middleand then move him to tie another viking up and put my other Werewolf within scoring distance.

Ben only had two men in range of Werewolf 2 and one of those was marked up by Werewolf 1. He could have had a 1d blitz but opted to dodge out and try and get an assist for the blitz, which failed even with a re-roll. After that anti-climax of a turn I had an easy score in turn 2 and thought I could get used to these guys.

After that though it kind of went tits up. Got a Werewolf and a Wight injured and you really start to suffer when those players are replaced by Zombies. With a numeric advantage Ben got another couple of re-rolls and an easy score. I was outnumbered for the rest of the match and think I did quite well to keep the score down to three-one. Both Werewolves were off the pitch at the end, plus one Wight, a couple of Zombies and my other Wight was off the field for one drive.

I'm philosophical about the result and I learned quite a bit. My most effective players were the Flesh Golems without a doubt. They are a real handful and I'll be trying the Block, Break Tackle route with them. Also both my Ghouls stayed on the pitch in flagrant bid to show me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

No apothecary adds a whole new dimension to the game and takes a bit of getting used to.

As far as the Werewolves go I have a sentimental attachment to them definitely, but after the first game with them I can certainly see why Murks exceptionally well-argued point about the cost of re-rolls compared to positional players would make a difference in the long term.

And I love zombies. I think they're brilliant value at 40k. They're rubbish but they take hits for you like a trooper.

Again, I'm planning to experiment but one definite is that I am definitely taking two Golems. Those guys perform a crucial job in my opinion and I think they're the only player you can't do without. I don't think the attack can work effectively without their impact elsewhere.

I'm also thinking that because of my noob-ness I should look to go with four re-rolls and maybe even spring for another after I round out the rest of the squad with positional players, and my head is telling me the Golems and Wights are the players I can't do without. With that in mind a Ghoul is probably coming into the picture, but I'll try a few different combinations on-line and hopefully find a mix that works for me.

On a final note someone was telling me that a guy rolled up at a TT tournament with the intention of fielding an entire team of Zombies, although he got talked into fielding two Flesh Golems as well. Obviously he didn't do this with the intention of winning, but more because he had a miniature of Michael Jackson. Terrible team, but must have been a laugh.

I think I'm going to keep coming back to this thread with updates if no-one has any objections and let you know how I'm getting on. I imagine it will terrible, but a learning experience all the same.
 
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maxcarrion

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I don’t have a lot of experience with Necro’s but personally I’d go for Murks 2nd roster, 3 RR is about right and it leaves you only needing 1 wolf and 1 ghoul getting your hitters a few more games to pick up spp but giving you enough runners that you can still score before filling up your roster.
 

Barninho

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For practice purposes that seems like a good place to start. Nearer the time I might add a re-roll or ditch one for a player or even go with the no ghoul roster. Necro's from what I can tell are a weird old team.
 
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How about the following rosters:

Roster #1:
- 2 Flesh Golems: 2 x 110 =220
- 2 Werewolves: 2 x 120 =240
- 1 Wight: 1 x 90 =90
- 6 Zombies: 6 x 40 = 240
- 3 Rerolls: 3 x 70 = 210
Total value = 1000

Roster #2:
- 2 Flesh Golems: 2 x 110 =220
- 2 Wights: 2 x 90 =180
- 2 Ghouls: 2 x 70 = 140
- 5 Zombies: 5 x 40 = 200
- 3 Rerolls: 3 x 70 = 210
Total value = 950 + 50 banked

Roster #3:
- 2 Werewolves: 2 x 120 =240
- 2 Wights: 2 x 90 =180
- 2 Ghouls: 2 x 70 = 140
- 5 Zombies: 5 x 40 = 200
- 3 Rerolls: 3 x 70 = 210
Total value = 970 + 30 banked

Roster #4:
- 1 Werewolf: 1 x 120 =120
- 1 Flesh Golem: 1 x 110 =110
- 2 Wights: 2 x 90 =180
- 2 Ghouls: 2 x 70 = 140
- 5 Zombies: 5 x 40 = 200
- 3 Rerolls: 3 x 70 = 210
Total value = 960 + 40 banked
 

Barninho

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Definitely worth a try although I'm not sure about number 1. So far I've been struggling with the shortage of block so having one less Wight worries me to be honest.

I've been trying out Murk's second roster today for a few games and I got a couple of wins and a couple of defeats but what worries me is that the games I lost saw me get absolutely slaughtered and lose the Ghoul. However the ghoul was definitely an important factor in the wins, both narrow 1-0's.

Out of them all I might go with number 4 next even though there's only one Golem, because I tend to find one is always stuck away from play. Quite worried about doing away with them altogether though so 3 seems like a massive risk.

Have you used them before mate? Which one worked best for you?
 
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