Chaos Global financial crisis spreads to the chaos lands

[Gremzilla]

Hi guys,

This is my first post so go easy on me if I break all of the forum rules (it won't be by choice!).

I've been playing the game now for a few weeks (only the PC version but that's set to change soon). The problem I'm having is with excessive Team Value. It's crazy, every time I play someone, my TV shoots up a bit more even though I pretty much lose every game!

My record is about as bad as it could be (2-2-13) but my TV is nearly 2000. Most of the teams I play are around the 1000 / 1200 mark. So they get a lot of stuff to buy before the game kicks off. The last game I played the opposition had 8 re-rolls, Morg-n-thorg and a goblin on a pogo stick.

What would you say I should do?

A) "Sell stuff off to cut down the TV".

B) "Take it like a man, the TV's are always well off".

 

[Gallows Bait]

There's a lot of things to consider in team value, in a league where you're not matchmaking based on that value, typically it will matter less as the inducements don't fully compensate (in my opinion).

But all the same, you do need to make sure you're getting value out of things.

Firstly, how deep is your bench? If you're playing with 15-16 players, how often are you finding you need them? could you manage with less substitutes, especially if they're not specialised roles?

What I mean is, a team might keep a catcher off the pitch on defense, or a kicker off during offense, but if your subs bench is just a bunch of spare linemen because of your casualty rate, then you need to think how much you're using those substitutes.

Also, the number of re-rolls you have can impact, if you've got more than 4 or 5 then you should be finding you end each half with some to spare, if not then again you need to think why you're needing so many.

Other factors include wasted team value. For example you have a player who takes an injury -1 strength, then roll +1 strength as a skill increase.

Sure, he gets back up to full strength, but it costs 50k in value to get the +1 strength, but your value doesn't go down for the -1 injury, so he's effectively 50k more expensive and no better than buying a new player.

There might be some exceptions for players with vital skills, but for the most part those players should be ditched.

I'd also check the number of cheerleaders and coaches, if your opponants are so low value then they won't have many, so you'd only need one or two to help you win those kick off rolls, and even then the odds of needing them on a kick off aren't huge.

A final factor to consider if which skills you're taking. Giving a minotaur +1 AG might make him better at dodging, but its a 30k increase, giving him break tackle to let him use his strength to dodge, even if only once a turn, is usually more than enough for his needs and only costs 20k.
Not every increase in statistics is worth taking, especially considering the cost is higher than a normal skill.

Similarly if you're rolling doubles on skills, think about which skills you really want, not just amusing or sometimes handy ones, they're 30k instead of 20k, so you need to see if they're worth it sometimes. Mostly they are, but its something to be aware of.

 

[Gremzilla]

wow thanks for the quick reply!

Ok well from what you've said I guess it's best to cut down on some of the more irrelevant stuff to get the value down a little bit and just live with the difference.

Off the top of my head my team is something like..

1 x Mino
4 x Chaos W
8 x Beastmen
4 x RR
1 x Apoc
8 x Cheerleaders (Yes... seriously)

Perhaps that might be a little over the top?

 

[Rav3n73]

I had a Chaos team and found that with AV+ on most players, you'd get through most games with only one sub.

Eight cheerleaders is just a bit excessive, my Dwarf team has no cheerleaders and I get by just fine.

Are you playing the computer or human opposition and what difficulty level are you playing against.

Lee

 

[Gremzilla]

Playing against humans with a fair bit more experience than me.
I did start with only 11 players but by the end of the game I would be down to 4 players so got a boat load of subs. How do you get +1 av?
Is that a level up thing?

 

[Gallows Bait]

+1 AV is one of the statistic increases available on a skill role - roles of 10 11 and 12 on 2D6 when gaining a skill open up the choices.

You need 12 on 2D6 to get offered +1 Str for example. 10 and 11 cover of +1 MA, +1 AG and +1 AV, though I'd have to check the rules so see which is which.

13 players isn't an overly bloated roster, I like to have a couple of subs, especially with AV8 on those beastmen.

The cheerleaders I definitely agree I don't see the need for so many.

The rest I guess would come down to the skills on the team, my guess would be that they've gained a lot of levels in those matches. 4 re-rolls seems fine to me, especially for Chaos where you need them for the agility jobs or players that haven't gained block yet.

A full list of skills and attributes would be needed to see if there were any specific players to drop, but assuming they are all looking at most having gained 2 or 3 skills the team value doesn't seem too excessive - I can only assume your opponents have played less matches or taken a lot more injuries.

 

[Rav3n73]

Sorry, typing error: I meant to say they are all AV8+, which means you should go through most matches without losing too many players.

How did you manage to loose 7 players against the humans? Did they foul you each turn, crowd surf you off the board or did they all have MB + Pilling on?

Lossing 7 players is like one every two turns, I have to say it seems more like you need to look at your tactics rather than your team.

Lee

 

[Gremzilla]

Sorry my bad, it wasn't against the human team but human players (as opposed to AI).
I think you might be right, I do take a lot of injuries every game so normally play lots of subs which pushes my TV up.
I guess something I'm doing tactically is wrong. I easily have 4+ players with long term injuries at the end of every game,
even against teams like Skaven.

 

[Rav3n73]

I would suggest it's probably moreto do with your lack of experience than bloated TV.

Can you give us a list of your players and their skills?

People would be able to advise which skills you may have picked that may not be of any use.

Also check Coaches advice on skill selection for the different team members.

I'm guessing your team Value is as follows?

Mino 150K
CW 400K
BM 480K
RR 300K (I assume you brought an extra 1 at double the price)
Apoc 50K
CheerLeaders 80K

Thats TV1460 which means you have around TV540 of skills? Thats around 27 skills, at 20,000 a skill.

The last game I played the opposition had 8 re-rolls, Morg-n-thorg and a goblin on a pogo stick.

I doubt having 8 re-rolls made that much different, I find it hard to use 5 during a match sometimes.

I take it you were playing a goblin team? Did you manage to inflict several casualties on his team, I'd be dissapointed if he finished each drive with more than 5 players.

You should try to get a game against some of the players here, they could then give you some good feed back on where you are going wrong. I should have Legends installed early part next week if you fancy a game.

 

[Creamster]

RR 300K (I assume you brought an extra 1 at double the price)

RR only double in cost after your first game. They don't double in TV as well.

 

[Rav3n73]

They don't ??? Aghhh I've been carrying an extra 30K in TV on my human team then..

Lee

 

[Netsmurf]

30K I hope you mean 50k

 

[Gremzilla]

Cheers for the help guys.. here is how the team is looking atm..

TV - 1820 Treasury - 100k
RR x 4 - 240k
Apoc x 1 - 50k
Cheerleaders x 6 - 60k

unskilled - 410k
Mino -150k
Chaos W x 2 -200k
Beastman x1 -60k

lvl 2 - 400k
BM x 2 -160k (Prehensile Tail) (Tentacles)
CW x2 -240k (Block) (Tentacles)

lvl 3 - 450k
BM x 4 -450k (+1AG, Block)
(Pro, Extra Arms) <- Catcher
(S.Hands, E.Arms)<- runner
(Accurate, +1AG) <- Thrower

lvl 4 - 140k
BM -140k (Block, Claw, +1AG)

I've fired a few guys which has helped a little bit and 3 of my team have designated roles in the team. Apart from that it's a bit random!

Any ideas?

 

[Gremzilla]

Holy cr*p..

Just played some lizard men that did the TV cutting down for me.. 3 dead!

The survivors look like this..

TV - 1600 Treasury - 200k
RR x 4 - 240k
Apoc x 1 - 50k
Cheerleaders x 6 - 60k

unskilled - 160k
Mino -DEAD
Chaos W x 1 -100k 1x Dead
Beastman x1 -60k

lvl 2 - 400k
BM x 2 -160k (Prehensile Tail) (Tentacles)
CW x2 -240k (Block) (Tentacles)

lvl 3 - 280k
BM x 3 -280k (+1AG, Block)
(S.Hands, E.Arms)<- runner
(Accurate, +1AG) <- Thrower

lvl 4 - 350k
BM x 2 - 350k (Block, Claw, +1AG)
(Pro, Extra Arms, AG+1) <- Catcher

Although if I buy back my dead guys I'm still pretty much back to 1800

 

[Rav3n73]

Hi Gremzilla

I think looking at you roster (Just my opinion and not right in any way), I would suggest the following.

Get rid of the two Beastmen with Tentacles, they only have ST3 so it's pretty much not going to perform to its full potential. Tentacles is designed for Stronger players ST4+ and I'd probably not bother on your CW either. Now the Mino would be a different matter.

I noticed that you have 7 guy's with extra skills and only 4 have block that means on a both down 7 of your guy's are going to cost you either a re-roll or end your turn.

Personally, Block is the first skill I'd get any player, unless you develop a beastman into a thrower. (Barring doubles and Stat increases).

The next important skills would be guard, There is no point in having ST4 players on your team if the other player has a bit of guard as your ST4 will be cancelled out.

I went down the route of giving all my players Block, MB, Claws, Pilling On. But found that when I was playing teams with loads of guard, I ended up rolling and letting the other team decide the out come.

I guess what I'm saying is get your foundations right before you start specialising your players. Chaos are not good straight out of the box, unlike Woodies or dwarfs, but if your in it for the long haul they'll catch and pass most teams, if built right.

Take a look at Coaches builds for some help,

Beastmen
Chaos Beastmen | Blood Bowl Tactics

Chaos Warriors
Chaos Warriors | Blood Bowl Tactics

Minotaur
Chaos Minotaur | Blood Bowl Tactics

Hope this helps,

Lee

 

[Creamster]

While Block is a good solid first skill it is a massive waste of TV to put it on all of your players, and is not a defo auto-pick IMHO. It only works a 1/6th of the time for every block dice against that one player.

If you also take into account that you/they roll 2 dice or then it takes away some of the importance as a player is still going down regardless. And block vs block means that neither player is going on so obviously you would be picking pushes (while the oponent will be picking both-down). Also with wrestle around, block is almost useless as the enemy player would rather both lying down safe then take a MB claw to their player to cause a turner. So I would say block only works 1/8th of the time a block dice is rolled - Feel free to disagree.

Using skills such as Guard, SF and MB gives the enemy less dice and gives you more dice. So in a way you can be more reliable without taking block on all players, and these skills benefit the TEAM while block is more for the PLAYER.

Block should only go on...
1, Carrier Sackers - (or wrestle, But I think tackle is still no1 pick)
2, Players you need standing - (S3 guard, SF, carriers)
3, Players who will often roll 1 dice blocks - (outfield catchers)
4, Players who block/blitz more then half the game
5, Frenzy - (although S4 can get away without it)

But knowing nuffle you will roll both-down on non-block players and defender stumbles for block players