1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Cyanide A Khorne Daemons Guide

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Shatner, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Valkia

    Valkia New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Country Flag:
    Good advice! A lot of it seems geared toward what to do with your players when they are skilled up, but getting there is tough.

    I just played the first two matches of our league's current season with a new Khorne team (this season we opened the rosters up to new/experimental teams like Khorne and Apes of Wrath). The first against Underworld, the second against Orcs. Both 2-0 losses. The first game was definitely a learning game. The second was part Nuffle, part the realization that I couldn't expect to successfully bash Orcs... with no Block anywhere on the team!

    So live and learn I suppose :) This is well outside my comfort zone as I am most comfortable playing Wood Elves - love the Ag and Speed! Khorne is a bit trickier for me. Especially since we have a very genteel league and I've always tended to put habitual surfing in the "not cool" category.

    Which raises a question - does anyone have any tips of how to manage this team without the emphasis on surfing as a principal strategy? Especially since, as some have pointed out, you don't get points for surfed opponents.
     
  2. SurgeonUFO

    SurgeonUFO Member

    Messages:
    109
    Country Flag:
    I think you're going to run into lots of issues if you're avoiding surfing. Especially if your opponents are aware of this and playing to the sidelines. It essentially gives them a wall of unblock able players to line up against. I've never heard of people avoiding surfing before ... Seems to me it sorta unbalances the game, and especially khorne, without it.
     
  3. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,198
    Location:
    Brasilia -3 GMT
    Country Flag:
    Surf them toward other players so you get more "blocks"... but then Khorne suck at blocking because they don't have block skill or Str...

    I say you need every advantage possible or you'll lose every game with this circus lot
     
  4. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,569
    Location:
    Buenos Aires (gmt -3)
    Cyanide Username:
    danton
    Country Flag:
    Khorne are a hard team to play with, especially at low tv. I feel they only start to come into their own around 1800 tv when you have the skills to complement the mass frenzy on the team. As has been mentioned before, frenzy with few skills makes failure more likely, while frenzy with good supporting skills makes knocking opponents down more likely!

    I have a Khorne team in FOL with a TV in the 1500s and it's only now starting to become a reasonably solid team with Block on virtually everyone. The next priority is to get at least 2 players with Guard asap. Guard is crucial to this team and the more of it you have, the more you will dominate the bashing war against most teams. I also have a Bloodthirster on this team who rolled two doubles as his first two skills and who has Block and Dodge. He is still sorely lacking MB, but the fact he is so hard to knock over makes him very useful, because I like to use the Thirster as a roadblock type player who ties up 2-3 opponents at a time. This then gives your own players more space to move around and get assists to where they are most needed.

    Chaining blocks together is where Khorne can be very powerful, because if you knock enough players over you will start to break some armour even without MB. Where it gets hard is when your opponents mark everyone up, especially when they have some Str 4 players and a Guard advantage. In those cases you need to try and use Horns to give you the strength to blitz a player free, who can then assist elsewhere.
     
  5. Everblue

    Everblue Active Member

    Messages:
    1,033
    Country Flag:
    I'm three games into my Khorne career in SSC and finding it very tough. Hopefully it will get a bit easier as I get some block.
     
  6. Shatner

    Shatner New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Country Flag:
    Rookie Khorne is like playing an Amazon team without any Blitzers. If that sentence scares you a little... well, that's normal. It's difficult, certainly, and you will have a long uphill battle before you reach the critical mass of skills that make your team go from "clumsy" to "deadly". But there are things you can do to help in the interim.

    Early on you want to let your opponent fight themselves as much as possible. Mark when appropriate and screen where needed and wait for the opponent to screw up or overreach themselves. Your blitz is of monumental importance because suddenly all of your weaknesses (no starting block, lack of strong players, near ubiquitous frenzy) become moot due to the magic combo of juggernaut and horns. If you can't blitz the ballcarrier, or blitz to expose the ball carrier, then blitz someone valuable towards the sidelines. You're Khorne; you should OWN the sidelines. You know this: make the other team realize it.

    Push more than one player off the pitch and you can mob the enemy into submission; you desperately want a numbers advantage at low TV. Don't think of crowd surfs as lost SPP opportunities, think of them as investments. For the rest of this drive, and possibly the rest of the match, you will have an easier, more reliable time bashing the enemy.

    If all else fails, screen and use your big guy to maul something. It's not a great plan but it should get the other team to hurry up and score, or hurry up and fail. Khorne is an out-branch of Chaos so you can expect to be reliant on luck early on (both your good luck and your opponent's bad luck). Just play conservatively, push people off the pitch, use your blitz wisely and you'll come out of the hazing ritual that is low TV Khorne. It's rough but it's worth it; Khorne is really fun once you get some skills on the team and they make for a very unique BB experience.
     
  7. Kueller

    Kueller New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Country Flag:


    I can't wait to try this team, been trying to get or convert the Miniatures, I love the look of them :)
     
  8. fourismith

    fourismith New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Country Flag:
    Coach, is there any chance of this team being added to the site? I understand if it's not, I'm just curious.
     
  9. sann0638

    sann0638 Member

    Messages:
    125
    Cyanide Username:
    sann0638
    Country Flag:
    Great read, thanks. If you fancied making a document of it, you could also submit it to Plasmoid's site, which has a collection of playbooks on it.
     
  10. plasmoid

    plasmoid Member

    Messages:
    98
    Country Flag:
  11. Shatner

    Shatner New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Country Flag:
    If the offer is still on the table, I'd be more than happy to have the guide up on your site; I read all the guides therein when I was getting started with Blood Bowl and found them to be a great resource. Just let me know if there is anything you need of me... I'll try to respond a bit quicker than two months after you post :)
     
  12. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

    Messages:
    1,831
    Country Flag:
    HAHAHA!
    bravo shatner, a more prominent link to your Khorne article is what most of us are looking for (ie, in the team articles like all the other great info held here)
     
  13. Captain Thorrek

    Captain Thorrek Member

    Messages:
    312
    Country Flag:
    On teams like KD and Norse, I love to go with Tackle rather than block. It takes care of a lot of SS players (who probably have dodge already), and stops wrestlers and other blockers from ruining a coach's day. There is the downside of not being as resilient against the other team's blocks, but the goal is to keep them from blocking by landing them on their backs first. It's a frustrating team at times, but a lot of fun nonetheless!
     
  14. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,438
    Location:
    Near Chicago, Illinois - in the United States of A
    Country Flag:
    I can't agree....tackle gives one extra knockdown option (turning :powdodge: from a :pushback: into a :pow:) and only vs. players with dodge.

    Block on the other hand saves you from :bothdown: whether you are HITTING or TAKING the hit. Whether its your player rolling the :bothdown: or another player rolling it against you, block serves its purpose by NOT knocking you over. Sure, it won't take the opponent down when they already have block, but it also means you aren't falling over when you're forced to take that result!

    On khorne demons and norse (Ulfwereners) its even worse, since the frenzy means you've got more chances to roll those :bothdown: results, and unless you were careful positioning (and even then sometimes!) you're now making a 1d or 2d-against block, with a 33% or 55% chance of falling over, maybe getting hurt, and causing a turnover.

    The only time tackle might be taken before block is on a dedicated blitzer bloodletter or herald, who already have juggernaut, and can turn those :bothdown: into :pushback:....but even then, it gives you no protection against BEING hit, and means that you can't choose to smash a wrestle player with the block/juggernaut combo (i've recently learned that you can turn on juggernaut, which cancels wrestle, and then choose NOT to turn the :bothdown: into a :pushback: thus knocking over a wrestle player on bothdown!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  15. Shatner

    Shatner New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Country Flag:
    I agree, block THEN tackle. The only exception is for my Bloodthirster, who I gave tackle instead of block because, as Limdood said, juggernaut allows you to get around both-downs while blitzing (which your Bloodthirster will likely be doing often).

    My bloodthirster's job is to murder stuff and I realized that tackle would do a better job of promoting said murder than block would; block stops block but nothing stops tackle. Furthermore, block serves a defensive purpose, which I rarely find my bloodthirster needs... he just doesn't get hit all that often. And finally, tackle makes your bloodthirster a better obstacle, making it more dangerous for dodgers to hop away from, or run passed, my big scary demon.


    I guess you could take the same advice for one of the positionals, since they have juggernaut as well, and take tackle first, but generally speaking you want to get block first and then puzzle over a second skill (tackle, dauntless, guard, or dodge, mostly).
     
  16. plasmoid

    plasmoid Member

    Messages:
    98
    Country Flag:
    Hi Shatner,
    sure - I'd still love to host it.
    What I'd need for you to do is:
    1) Set it up in Word or somesuch.
    2) email it to me: plasmoid at Hotmail dot com

    Cheers
    Martin
     
  17. Shatner

    Shatner New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Country Flag:
    Email sent. Thanks Plasmoid!
     
  18. Captain Thorrek

    Captain Thorrek Member

    Messages:
    312
    Country Flag:
    I see what you mean. I'm just used to playing against a LOT of Dodge, so Tackle is a natural first-choice for me (especially when someone has Dodge AND Sidestep). Also, I tend to ignore defensive capabilities in favor of all out attack, so blocking against my players isn't a sign of my needing Block so much as I did something wrong to cause the block to happen in the first place (opponents should only be in blitz distance or on their backs). Lastly, until the league opens up at the shop, I just play the Cyanide version of the game, and Nuffle knows I'll only roll :bothdown: on my guys who DON'T have Block. :rolleyes: Tackle tends to be a second choice for me on the Cultists, though... since I grab all the positionals from the get-go, my first couple of rookie skill ups tend to be Leadership, so I can get the "cheap reroll" and keep it on the field (I normally start with only one).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  19. plasmoid

    plasmoid Member

    Messages:
    98
    Country Flag:
  20. Shatner

    Shatner New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Country Flag:
    It looks real nice; good emblem and the sub-chapters are each on their own page (which was either a very happy coincidence or Plasmoid's doing). I didn't realize the darn thing was so long until I tried to re-read it :). I should have included a TLDR version...
    Frenzy carefully. Get BLOCK then GUARD. Bloodthirster is excellent.
    ...to save everyone from my own verbosity.

    Thanks Plasmoid.