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Slann / Kislev Circus Advice for a starting Slann Team

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Gio, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. Gio

    Gio Member

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    So, I ordered the Frogman team from Gaspez Arts (they look beautiful and will get down here pretty soon) because GW does not have suitable minis for a BB team. Until the minis get here, I want to start practicing on their strategy and build up. I will use human minis in the meanwhile.
    Now, for a starting roster I have thought:
    A) 7 Frogmen
    3 Catchers
    1 Froxigor (rightfully called, the mini is awesome)
    4 RR
    = 1 round M

    B) 6 Frogmen
    4 Catchers
    1 Blitzer
    4 RR
    = 990 K

    As you can see, I'm set on starting with 4 RR (Slann really need them, leaping all over the place and with no Dodge, Block, Sure hands, Pass... none of those) and will get an apothecary as first purchase.
    Trouble is: Froxigor or no Froxigor. I'm getting the mini anyway, but I'm hesitating whether to start with one or get it later on.
    Thing is, Blitzers are cool, but they don't really scare opponents (they don't even start with Block:eek:) and they need at least 1skill before they really start blitzing reliably, before that, Frogmen can do almost as well. Diving tackle makes them somewhat roadblockers, and with Jump up the combo is fantastic (although I don't like the idea of having them on the floor begging for a foul).
    I think Froxigor is a much more reliable roadblock and a frightening blitz posibility. Furthermore, Froxigor skills up very slowly and it might be a good idea to get those MVP's as soon as possible. Blitzers, on the other hand, can score touchdowns and skill up faster once I get them.
    So I'm more inclined towards the first build, but I would like to hear your comments and advice.

    Cheers,

    Gio
     
  2. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    I agree, I like the first build better. The Krox will give you some much needed strength (and big guys could always use more games to hopefully get skill ups) and 4 rerolls are quite nice on a team with really very few direct "skills". Just make sure to not hog all of your SPP on your catchers (try and make touchdowns with linemen) and I think you'll do fine.
     
  3. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I like the logic behind starting with four rerolls. As Murkglow pointed out though be careful about your Catchers hogging all the SPP.

    Due to that maybe only start with two and look towards getting some Blitzers as well. I've not got their costs in front of me at the moment to work a roster out though. I hear the Blitzers skill up somewhat slowly, so same with the Kroxigor, the more games to get an MVP the better.
     
  4. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Blitzers are 110k, Catchers are 80k, he couldn't really drop Catchers and replace them with Blitzers (He would have to drop all three Catchers just to fit one Blitzer).

    Edit: As for other advice, I would probably get Apoth next (as you mentioned) then start buying Blitzers, keeping one or two linemen as reserves and firing the rest as you fill in your blitzer count, before finally getting your last Catcher.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  5. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    I would start with

    2 blitzers,
    2 Cachters,
    7 line
    and 4 RR

    = 1mill.

    Then buy an Apo first chance, the kroxigor and what I need most in the game concerning BL, CA or RR.

    I have never played them, so I don´t know. Am painting a team right now, I got the ones from Roll Jordan. Hopefully I will get it ready to start in january.
     
  6. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    I've had about 6 games with the Slann now and love them to bits.

    3 on Da Leeg with a starting team of :

    4 Catchers 320k
    2 Blitzers 220k
    5 Linefrogs 300k
    3 Reroll 150k

    = 990k

    And 3 in a live tournament with a team of :

    3 Catchers 240k
    1 Kroxigor 140k
    7 Linefrogs 420k
    4 Rerolls 200k

    = 1,000k

    The catchers really make this team, but then they do go off the pitch pretty fast so the more you have of them the better. And if you do all the ball handling and most of the leaping with them you can get by on 3 rerolls to start.

    For short leagues and tournaments the blitzers are just not worth the money plain and simple, but that GAS access without any negtraits is unique I believe. I would definitely start a league with at least two and hand off the ball to them as much as possible early on to get that first skill. Don't think of them as blitzers though, without block your linefrogs are just as good/bad for blitzing!

    The Krox is the inverse of the Blitzers, he doesn't need any skills to go his job really, so is really good if you are just thinking short term. Plus he is also a really good merc inducement.

    I hear Tom Anders, who basically designed the team, likes to start with:

    2 Catchers 160k
    2 Blitzers 220k
    7 Linefrogs 420k
    3 Rerolls 150k
    1 Apothecary 50k

    = 1,000k

    Which is a bit defensive and risk adverse for my tastes. I would probably only start with this build in a developed league.
     
  7. Gio

    Gio Member

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    This is going to be a long league. However, most teams are starting with BG and there's many teams with high STR as well, so I don't want to be behind on the STR race. I realize Blitzers are difficult to skill up fast, but I think it really depends on how you see them. As Gerard said, I don't really see them as Blitzers per se. I think they could be excellent threats for ball handlers with Wrestle + Strip ball/Tackle, and could become really mean with Block + Pile on/Mighty Blow. These two builds, plus starting with Diving Tackle, take full advantage of Jump up, which is just peachy.

    Anyhow, I see Blitzers as very efficient TD scorers, recieving a hand-off or pass from a Cathcer and with decent movement to reach the EZ. If they are not carrying the ball, I'd assume not that many players would like to be left standing next to them because of Diving Tackle preventing them of getting where the ball will be next turn; and with Jump up, their movement is not hindered when they are left prone so they can stand up, run to the EZ and wait for a pass (4RR are meant for this type of scenario). They can also get SPP from casualties, interceptions (5+), MVP and even from passing the ball. And yes, GAS access is awesome and allows for creating many different builds. Because of this, they are probably the best player in the team, but I guess they don't mind waiting a bit so the rest of the team can skill up a bit before they do.

    Froxigor on the other hand, can only skill up by inflicting casualties and getting MVP, so they skill up really, really slowly. Furthermore, they only have direct access to STR skills, so no easy Block for them. The more chances you have to skill them up and the earlier you start doing so, the quicker they will get it. I see Froxigor as a priceless early tool for the team. First of all, he provides strength against stronger tems. Then he ties up player with Prehensile tail, so he can deliver more pain while protecting other players and key plays. I'm not sure wether to give him Guard or Break Tackle as first skill (unless I roll doubles, then Block is a nobrainer). While Break Tackle lets him get where he is needed with more ease and probably make a key blitz (ball carrier inside the cage... here comes Froxigor), Guard lets you tie up players more effectively (1 Frogman with each opposing player in Froxigor's TZ and they are not going anywhere) and lets your Frogmen enter the bashing game.

    It's been a long post, but what I'm really saying is that Blitzers are amazing and can skill up fast, so they can wait to be bought later and Froxigor is excellent for the team but slow to skill up so he should be bought from the start. All your comments have been very helpful and have given me new ideas and perspectives. Thank you all.
     
  8. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    All this talk about Lizardmen, Vampire and Orc starting builds has got me thinking about Slann. I starting a new Slann team in my local TT league and I just can't decide on the three variations noted above in my previous post.

    First team I'm up against is starting Pact. I see heaps of smashed frogs in my future no matter what I pick I think!
     
  9. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    As I said for Gio's build, I like the 3 Catcher, 4 rerolls, 1 Krox build personally. Just play keep away from his big guys as much as you can (leap helps here) and use your own big guy to tie one of his up/punch through Marauder guards. You've got the mobility edge while he has the strength edge so try to make him play to your advantage rather then his.
     
  10. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    Leap doesn't really help to be honest. You've a 3+ chance of leaping away, which is the same for dodging. That means 1 in 3 dodges or leaps ends in an armour roll for your player. You're better of just taking all the 1 die blocks you can. Same chance of failure 1 in 3 with a 50% chance of knocking the other player over. Only the catchers can be relied on to leap or dodge away. So the more of them the better I think.

    I'm leaning more towards the 4 catcher 2 blitzer build as this probably gives the best chance at scoring lots. I can induce a Krox against more developed teams, for a 30k penalty. I'll probably be sucking up heaps of casualties the first few matches, but journeymen Linefrogs aren't the worst for soaking up blocks on the LOS and with that many catchers I should be able to feed SPPs to who ever survives. Guard, Block the blitzers, Dodge, Block the catchers, and Wrestle, Fend the linos, with some Kick and Strip Ball added for favour!

    That said I do like the Krox, 3 catcher build, but not starting against Pact or with much more developed teams in the league. I'll probably change my mind again before next week. It is a puzzler.
     
  11. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Leap lets you get to where you need to go even if it's on the other side of your enemy. To get there without leap you would either need to go the long way around (assuming there is a clear path) or make multiple dodges. That's what I ment about leap helping.
     
  12. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    Fair enough, it's just some people over do the Leaping and get themselves into more trouble than just standing still or throwing a block.
     
  13. Gio

    Gio Member

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    The Froxigor really made the difference for my team. As forseen, it helped both against stronger teams and dodgier teams. When I got the Blitzers, they were excelent for scoring touchdowns (since they were backed up by their already skilled up buddies). I personally like block on the Linefrogs and at least 1 (or 2)Blitzer with Wrestle (along with Tackle/Strip ball); the other Blitzers can then get Block + Pile on (before or after Mighty Blow). Slann is a team full of possibilities... I love them Frogs :)
     
  14. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    I've already changed my mind about 4 times! But you may have a point about the big guy from the start. That mighty blow should give the team a bit of bite.

    I've been playtesting

    1 Krox
    3 Catchers
    7 Linefrogs
    4 Rerolls

    But might drop a reroll for an Apothecary considering Pact are my first opponent!
     
  15. Darknesse

    Darknesse New Member

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    Slann Help. Sooo frustrating.

    I've played BB for a long time now, having played for years, and thought that with the new league (with some brand new players) we are firing up, I would start with Slann this time.

    The Frustration:

    This is a hard team to build. They don't have much armor, and literally 0 blocking/blocked skills so I feel that I should start with an apothecary, but they don't have any skills and roll a LOT of dice so the Rerolls might be critical.

    So long story short, here are the options I'm looking at:

    Option 1:

    6 Linefrogs
    3 Catchers
    1 Blitzer
    1 Kroxigor
    3 RR
    No Apoth


    Option 2:

    7 Linefrogs
    2 Catchers
    2 Blitzers
    4 RR

    Option 3:

    Same as above, but 3 RR, 1 Apoth.

    Option 4:
    1 Kroxigor
    3 Catchers
    7 Linefrogs
    4 Rerolls

    No Blitzers. Not sure about it, since the Blitzers are the stars of the show but it seems to be fairly reroll friendly.


    What do you think I should start with?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  16. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Merged your post with this existing thread Darknesse, hopefully it should answer your question.
     
  17. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    On most teams I'd agree Blitzers are stars but on Slann... Not so much. Diving Tackle is a fine skill as is Jump up but they aren't that impressive. At the same time he's not stronger or more agile then a line frog and costs alot more. What really makes them worth buying are their skill access which means you need to level them up for them to be good. Between your catchers and Blitzers that's alot of men who need to skill up and Catchers at least have the agility to dodge and pass.

    To me you want to go all one way or another. Either max out on Blitzers and try and skill them up early or take none and skill them up later after your team is a bit more stable. Personally I'd go with option 4.
     
  18. Darknesse

    Darknesse New Member

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    Well, in the test game I played last night (1000 TV against Norse unfortunately) It was pretty valuable to be able to pick my Blitzers off of the ground, since that's where they all were all game basically.

    Maybe the krox will help that though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  19. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    I would think that option 4 is the better choise. A friend of mine mentioned a study he made with woodelves playing with or without the treeman in 50 matches. The cas sustained was 1 third less when playing with the tree! If the same should be the case with AV7 Slann, I can only see one option and thats to include the krox.

    Once you start to buy blitzers you should have a fair amount of skills to aid them in their quest for TD´s. Handing of to the blitzers for TD should skill them up fast.
     
  20. TheHappyAnarchist

    TheHappyAnarchist New Member

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    Has anyone ever considered having one of the Catchers that rolls a double get the Pass skill?
    You get an AG 4 thrower with 7 movement and leap, and you already have 3 other AG 4 catchers that have Diving Catch, give one or two of them Catch & Pass Block and they make fantastic interceptors and receivers! 4+ with a reroll on an interception attempt, if out of tackle zones and no safe throw to stop it. Of course, most coaches will choose not to pass, but that gives you a serious advantage in that you have forced them into what may be a very unfortunate position!

    Gives you a very dangerous offense and an easy way to stop elfball. I normally don't like developing throwers on a team that doesn't start with them, but honestly Mv 7 Leap, AG 4 and Pass is a solid enough thrower as is, and you already have catchers.