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Elf +AG as fisrt skill in elf LM, what next?

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Viajero, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    I am curently having a lot of fun with my new elf team (casualties and all notwithstanding!), and I have been applying several of Coach's recommendations re positional development etc.

    But usually it is when you get a stat increase that choices become non trivial...

    My current team is;

    Thrower 1: Pass, Accurate, Safe Throw
    Thrower 2: Pass

    Catcher 1: Catch, NoS, Block, Dodge, Guard
    Catcher 2 (blitzer): Catch, NoS, Wrestle (may follow up with strip ball, tackle)
    Catcher 3 (blitzer): Catch, NoS, Dodge (may follow up with wrestle, tackle)
    Catcher 4: Catch, NoS, Block (may follow up with dodge)

    Blitzer 1: Block, SS, Dodge, Diving Tackle
    Blitzer 2: Block, SS (4 SPP), will follow up prolly as Blitzer 1

    LM 1: Kick, Dodge
    LM 2: Wrestle
    LM 3: +AG
    LM 4: Dodge

    4 RR, Apoth, 7 or 8 FF

    For a total of over 1600 TV, cant remember exactly.

    Now my issue is with the LM that just got +AG... and what type of role to give him. A few options that I see:

    A) Safety ball retriever, with+AG he will be able to get into the thick of the fight across tackle zones, pick up balls more easily and pass it to safety far enough, so... dodge and sure hands next

    B) Additional leaping blitzer, so... leap, wrestle and strip ball although not sure in which order... asuming he can live that long of course!

    C)... hmmm, dedicated pass-blocker? Not sure about this one, catchers can do it more efficiently probably.

    D) None of the above

    I am biased by B) above... love to leap and steal the ball. But MA6 may be a limitation for a blitzer and the development may be somewhat long to get there... in the other hand, a safety ball retriever is probably faster developed.

    Another small issue is who to put at the LOS... with 12 players, there is always at least one that needs to be left out! Who would you leave out in attack, and who in defense? In principle I am thinking to leave Thrower 2 out in defense, and LM1 in attack.

    Opinions welcome!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  2. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Welcome Viajero,

    I would go for either A or B.

    A Leap threat is always nice, even if you don't use it and it is just a threat. I would take Wrestle before Leap though as it gives him more protection and will help him live to get that third skill. Leap is less useful if they can't hit reliability, or if they can be hit rather effectively by most players.
     
  3. maxcarrion

    maxcarrion Active Member

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    I’m sure I’ve just had this discussion :p (see how to fight cages thread)

    I’d go B, leap, wrestle, tackle (I think strip ball is too situational and too far down the line. Let catcher 2 take it as his next skill so that you have it somewhere fairly soon. He may be slower but with a 2+ leap he can take a much shorter route, he can also be quite effective for A being able to leap to the ball avoiding the nasty dodges and for that matter leap out again, a team reroll in hand will suffice in place of sure hands and leap more than covers dodge with ag5.
     
  4. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Remember your can only leap once pr turn with the same player, so you risk getting stuck next to a lot of blocks and perhaps even a foul.
     
  5. Thargoid

    Thargoid New Member

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    This is true, however, with agi 5 you can often dodge out by doing 2x 2+ rolls (69%, 93% with RR) if you have enough movement left over.
     
  6. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yes. Thanks all.

    I think I am going to go with the leaping blitzer role... asuming he lives long enough that is. So Wrestle next and then leap.

    He can always act as a safety ball retriever... not having dodge or sure hands is not ideal, but leap at AG5 can help equally in getting to the ball, and with a RR handy he should be able to manage at least a few spectacular pick ups.
     
  7. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    I'd say Jump before Wrestle if you are following that road. Make this player useful now, not after a 3rd skill he may never get.

    Without jump, you'll never use the guy in a blitz action, as you have other players more fit for that role.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  8. coachman

    coachman Well-Known Member

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    I would go wrestle, dodge then leap.

    agi 5 wrestle dodge means he can catch in traffic and get away. Even for cage breaking he can dodge in on a 4+ with reroll.

    I think hes more useful all round if you take dodge before leap. He will also live longer with wrestle and dodge.
     
  9. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    :p You guys not making it any easier to decide are you?

    A Leaper with no other defensive skills? hmmm not sure how long he will live though. In the other hand, even if I do not use it for blitzes just yet (at the 1700 TV's most ball carriers have Block or Blodge already...) Leap can give him better access where needed to assist or get to the ball, I would get the mileage out of Leap faster that is for sure... question is will he survive long enough to get to 31 SPP's?
     
  10. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    Well, I disagree with coachman on this one. Choosing +AG as first skill almost compels you to pick an AG skill as second. At 1700 TV, it'll take dozens of games to get another 2 skills as he suggests.

    Picking wrestle is weak. If you needed another wrestle lineelf, you should have forfeited the +AG and picked wrestle as 1st skill. Rolling a stat increase is a rare and powerful thing, the subsequent skills should have a synergy with that increase.

    Leap is a great skill. Opposite to wrestle, it can be a game changer allowing you a bolt or desperate move impossible if you don't have this skill in your arsenal.

    If you don't like leap, at least take dodge before wrestle and make use of that +AG your paying for (TV-wise). Dodging in multiple tackle zones to extract the ball is nice too, and dodge gives you some protection. I'd never go for wrestle anyway. I'd pick sure hands next.

    AG5, leap/dodge, sure hands ; I just love that guy. Go in, pick it up and throw it out (with possible the help of a reroll that you do not burn on the pick up).

    AG5, leap, guard: The jewel of my woodie team ;)

    In any case, these two are much more appealing that AG5, wrestle, dodge to me. I don't see the edge of that combo compared to a less lucky and skilled AG4, wrestle, dodge.
     
  11. Thargoid

    Thargoid New Member

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    I think the idea is to offer some protection for the +AG also.

    I've just rolled the same for a WE lineman and I can see it will a tricky choice to make. Well he will have to survive before that choice becomes an issue but I am tempted by dodge -> surehands as I have 2 wardancers that fulfill the ball retriever role quite well already. Still an agi 5 wrestle leaper does sound great too :)
     
  12. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    I get the idea. My point is exactly that. Either you pick up a skill set that protects the player or you make it useful right away.

    Let's face it, at 1700+ TV positionals will get most of the SPP. Planning on a 3+ skill career is just having a dead weight on the team. What's the role of +AG, dodge line? You already have some of the best catchers in the game and a couple of throwers to boot. Blitzers should already have a better skill set for the rough game, etc...

    I'd rather have a player that helps me win the next 10-15 games right away, than having a useless 100+ TV guy on the payroll. If he dies or get crippled what's the big deal?
     
  13. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    If you can't get SPP on an AG5 Lineman you have problems!
     
  14. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    Well, 4th skill is a long way to go especially with AV7 with or without blodge.
     
  15. spworldtour

    spworldtour New Member

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    (I know this thread was dead a long time ago, but I just saw it and thought it was an interesting discussion)

    I'd take leap every time. It's a 2+ leap, anywhere on the field.

    So everyone is talking about using leap to get into cages, but in this case I'd actually use leap to create another receiving threat. This will drastically increase the number of shots this lineman has at getting goals.

    The Elf catchers can outrun your opponents. Elf linemen are slow. They need some way to be able to get around if they want to be able to reliably score TD's. Leap does this very nicely.

    Next, I'd take dodge, not wrestle. In most cases, the leap will leave you in a tackle zone. Now normally, it will be an easy 2+ dodge out of that, but still. Every 2+ is another chance to fall down and the reroll will come in handy.

    The reason why is that on a 1700 TV team, you're going to have several threats, not just one. This guy will likely never end up standing next to someone. If anything he's gonna be falling down because you failed a roll rather than knocked down from a regular block.

    And personally, as a opposing coach, I'm going to be much more worried about using my blitz on the Elf catchers than on a agil 5 lineman.
     
  16. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yes, I finally opted for Leap straight away on the +AG LM. Here below the updates roster, on the 2000 TV now! and still hovering around 200-300 rank at Naggaroth with a "post reset" streak of 9-2-3 (around 15-2-3 if we included pre re set...)

    Thrower 1: Pass, Accurate, Safe Throw, +AG, Dodge ( best thrower I've had for a long time!!!)
    Thrower 2: Pass, Dodge, Block

    Catcher 1: (blitzer) Catch, NoS, Block, Dodge, Guard, Side Step, Might Blow(!!)
    Catcher 2 (blitzer): Catch, NoS, Wrestle, Tackle (may follow up with strip ball)
    Catcher 3: Catch, NoS, Dodge, Guard
    Catcher 4: Catch, NoS, Block, +AG (will also probably follow with Leap)

    Blitzer 1: Block, SS, Dodge, Diving Tackle, Tackle
    Blitzer 2: Block, SS, Dodge, Sure Hands

    LM 1: Kick, Dodge, Block, Smashed Knee
    LM 2: Wrestle, Tackle
    LM 3: +AG, Leap (!!!)
    LM 4: Unskilled

    4 RR, Apoth, 9 or 10 FF
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  17. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    Just read your roster and was wondering who you use on the line of scrimmage? Obviously the unskilled lineman, and the wrestler I'm guessing, but that roster leaves you with a free hit on either your agility lineman, your kicker or a positional.

    I'd be bricking it if it was me.
     
  18. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I would rather have a 14 man roster with 2 more fodder linemen for LOS duty, even in a public MM league. It's only 100K more TV and will make it much harder for your opponents to outnumber you significantly, as well as prolonging the lives of your positional players!

    Also, you don't want your kicker on the LOS where he can't use his most important skill!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  19. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    At the moment I am using the unskilled and the wrackle linemen plus the blodge thrower.

    I am nowadays having a hard time finding games with this team as it is at 2040 TV in Nagg, so no plans for further purchases... Before reaching 2000 I was having no major trouble finding games but after I crossed the 2000 it seems things have dried up. Maybe the MM system has a 2000 threshold value so to only strictly match teams above or below that line? Don´t know. I was hoping to find all those mighty and evil all-claw chaos or nurgle teams but... nothing.

    If anything I was considering actually who to let go! in order to go back down below 2000 and find some games!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  20. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Give it time and more teams will eventually make it up there, as the current MM league has not been going for very long. I personally play with various different teams at once in MM and develop them simultaneously as this gives me better chances of finding games at different TV levels. A lot of teams are scrapped before they make it above 2000 TV, but over time the number of high TV teams should increase.