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Are High Elves really the worst Elf team?

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Ghastley, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. Ghastley

    Ghastley Member

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    Hello,

    I am trying to understand something I am a bit confused about. I hear time and time again that High Elves are supposedly the least successful Elf team and they are only in the game due to historic reasons and are obsolete due to the existence of Pro Elves.

    I get that Wood Elves are winning the most and great at the running game with some passing here and there. Dark Elves are bashier due to more starting skills and AV8 and tend to the running game even more. That leaves Pro Elves (squishy, but great catchers and blitzers) and High Elves (AV8, high potential, only few starting skills). I get that HE become better over time when they get access to more skills. But both PE and HE have win rates around 40 % at TV 1000 in BB Manager and around 50 % in the Black Box stats with TV <1200 (HE are actually better there).

    So, what is up with the notion of "High Elves are mostly obsolete and rarely successful, except for higher Team Values" that I keep hearing about?
     
  2. Ikoma

    Ikoma Member

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    No idea. I've had plenty of success with High Elves and Pro Elves.
     
  3. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea and as far as I know its nonsense. High Elves are less successful than Dark Elves and Woodies but more successful in perpetual leagues than Pros. Pros are by far the least successful elf team in perpetual leagues. Things are a bit different in tabletop tourneys where high elves struggle due to their lack of starting skills (but Pros aren't exactly fantastic either). So basically I think you keep getting bad information.
     
  4. Arthur Wynne

    Arthur Wynne Member

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    Yeah, I think it's probably true that High Elves are the worst elf team, but that's really not saying much. They're still good, certainly not "obsolete and rarely successful".
     
  5. Xamnen

    Xamnen Member

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    I haven't played much in competitive leagues, but from playing elves a lot I wouldn't say so. Despite all the elf teams being elves they do play different, HE have a more measured feel because you have to be more cautious with your players having very few starting skills. However, having both armor 8 and incredible passing potential with fast catchers means they have a incredible scoring potential that is hard to simply kill off once more players get block/wrestle. I could be wrong but that's my two cents
     
  6. Ghastley

    Ghastley Member

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    Thanks for the input, guys. I'm considering playing them in a tournament (~10 players, not sure if double-round yet) after winning the tournament before that would like to check out a different playstyle to Undead, i.e. passing and dodging. High Elves might not be the strongest team for a tournament setting, but I am curious to play them and learn the Elf way.
     
  7. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Back in the day we had High elfs and no Pro┬┤s (sad days they were ;) ) anyhow the Pro elfs was designed to have cheap elfs for tourney use and then the High elf were to be deleted. However an uproar came and saved the high elfs, so they are here. High elfs are the slowest elf team to develope, and the lack of starting skills is the great downfall for this team in tourneys. In league play they have the potential to do great but it will take time to get them to shine.
     
  8. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    High Elves are my Elf team of choice, there were rumours they were going to get replaced by the Pro Elf team, along with the Undead being replaced by Necromantics. I think this was just to keep the number of teams down but the community who had been using them for years weren't happy with this (especially if you had a painted team). They certainly aren't a weak team, but perhaps the least popular. It doesn't help that there aren't really any good miniatures for High Elves and even in the Cyanide game they look like Warhammer soldiers rather than Blood Bowl players :skull: :(
     
  9. Ghastley

    Ghastley Member

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    Hehe interesting, Coach.

    Netsmurf: How come they have the same or even better ratio of win/draw/loss than Pro Elves even in low TV? What you are saying makes sense, but I don't see it in the actual match results.
     
  10. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    This is the NAF stats taken today:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see in tourneys at least, High elfs do worse than Pro
     
  11. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

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    It is all perception.

    on their own, the Helves are fine....compared to pros, they're probable fine too, but people don't usually compare them just to pros..

    In other words, they don't have a niche. If you want speed and high risk play, play wood elves. If you want sturdiness and versatility, play dark elves. If you want cheap players with high agility, play pro elves.

    The Helf catchers are worse than pro catchers OR Wood elf Wardancers - if you're looking for long range threat and scoring, then pro/wood is the way to go
    The Helf linemen/blitzers are identical to dark elf linemen/blitzers (and worse than pro blitzers)...and the dark elves get 2 more of them - if you're looking for sturdy elves, then dark is the way to go
    The Helf throwers are slightly better than pro/dark throwers, and approximately equal to Woodie throwers (extra MV). But the reliability of safe throw doesn't come up very often. so if you're looking for a super reliable throwing game...you're still better off using pro (NOS catchers) or woodies (overall better MV), or focusing on making your team more versatile, because vanilla (non-dark) elves throw just fine.
     
  12. Ghastley

    Ghastley Member

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    So many good arguments, you guys don't make it easy for me :D
    I'm not feeling confident enough to play the squishy Pro Elves yet... then again in my current tournament I only had one Ghoul die and one get injured, so it's not too bad?
     
  13. Everblue

    Everblue Active Member

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    I think it's pretty clear. High elves are great in long leagues, when they get time to develop. They are not so good in shorter tournaments.