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BB Manager is permanently down

Discussion in 'Blood Bowl 1' started by Steele, Feb 15, 2016.

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  1. Ghastley

    Ghastley Member

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    No, thank you for satisfying my craving for dice roll statistics!

    Alright, looks like it's working now, great! I doesn't show much yet obviously, but at least some tables have been populated and I didn't notice bugs, just missing features. Keep at it, I'm looking forward to it!

    [edit] It appears it took some time until the dice roll stats showed up, so that seems to be working too, nice!

    [edit 2] I think the Block Dice Defender Down total dice rolls are in the wrong column.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  2. TheGutterRunner

    TheGutterRunner Member

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    Yeah, you have to click on match report first, and then go back and hit ctrl+F5. I'm going to streamline this in the future. Thing is, there are some dice (D6 ones) that don't show up, so it's not a complete feature yet. It's better than nothing, though.

    Yeah the final cell in the table doesn't pad out properly, known issue, bigger fish to fry at the moment.

    People can follow development on my trello board if you want. https://trello.com/b/6mFmBh5S/bbdb Also there's a change log on the website so you can see all the work that's gone into it.
     
  3. TheGutterRunner

    TheGutterRunner Member

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    I have decided to make BBDB open-source. First though I want to tidy up some bits of code which have been revealed to be frankly embarrassing. I also want to add some more features!

    I promise it will be available open-source by the end of the year at the latest.

    Thanks to the few people who have been using it (username/password is a few posts ago). :) I'd encourage people to use it, the more data the better!
     
  4. Stoertebeker

    Stoertebeker Member

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    I have just tried to test an upload and selected a replay match file but the gui deems it not worthy...

    That's not a sqlite file and thus not allowed.
    That's not a log file and thus not allowed.
    Sorry, your file was not uploaded.​

    The tooltip says to look in BB Legendary. I tried to use a file from BB Chaos. Also I tried to upload a file I played against the computer since that was the last game I had played and I didn't want to wait till I played an online match. Is the prog picky about the logfiles or did I do something wrong?
     
  5. TheGutterRunner

    TheGutterRunner Member

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    I've never tested it with a single player game, so I'm not too surprised it rejected it. :)

    Urgh sorry I keep meaning to change it so it tells you where to look if you have Chaos edition. They are as follows...

    Replay File - C:\Users\[USERNAME]\Documents\BloodBowlChaos\Saves\Replays

    Other Files - C:\Users\[USERNAME]\Documents\BloodBowlChaos

    Note: Log files are named BB_Chaos00X
     
  6. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Dreamy
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    Dreamy
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    Logfiles for single player games are similar enough that they should be possible to upload as long as you do it right.
     
  7. Stoertebeker

    Stoertebeker Member

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    Found my mistake, I only tried to upload the .db file. BBManager was automatically choosing the right files and I didn't know that all 3 are needed to decode the info.
    Thanks for doing this - I really like to look at the match stats and see if the dice were really as good or bad as they felt sometimes :)

    Some things I noticed:
    • Some entries in the match log are not consistent:
    If results are BD and DD and Defender Down is chosen why is the outcome a push? Conqequently no check for armor is listed.
    In the match the result was a DD resulting in an armor break and injury

    DD on the spot is correct but again no armor roll is listed after this result.

    Here the entry is correct since the defending player had dodge. This is not noted in the match log but perhaps that is not possible.

    This was a crowd push. The result of the injury roll is not listed

    this was a regular block resulting in a defender being down, again armor roll was not listed.​


    This was the during the first turn of each team. At this point I stopped the comparison. There's probably more but hopefully this is enough to help you check if something is wrong or if the match log just is not listing the lines.
    • I really love the statistics block and how it directly compares both teams' values, but here also some events are missing which is probably a conqequence of the first issue. In my match 6 causalties are listed in the statistics but even looking at the player list there's 7 injured players listed there. In the match there was a total of 8 injuries - one was a journeyman player whose injury is not listed in the player list but possibly the game does not retain these statistics for jorneymen. One question: Is it correct that the knockdowns statistic is the knockdowns sustained not knockdowns inflicted? Could you make that clear in the text, please? I wold have expected differently. Some crowd surfing as well as piling-on injury rolls do not seem to be included in the statistic.
    • In the Turn Ends Section there is a Turn End by failed ball handling listed with the explanation
      . It was actually a 6 rolled and no turnover has happened.
    Now for some things I would love to see in a future version:

    • D6: It would be great to not only see the raw dice rolls but how they compared to my chances. For me rolling a one when needing a two is worse than if I had needed a five anyway.
    • 2D6: Again it would be neat to be able to see a comparison to the numbers needed. But I guess this is difficult since you not only need to know the defending player's AV but also about Mighty Blow or Claw. This is certainly a much lower priority than with the D6 statistics.

    Again, thanks for a valiant and also pretty advanced effort at giving us a tool to replace BBManager. I really liked the Block Dice probability analysis, which is something BBM did not do. Hope you can find the time to work out the kinks.

    Keep up the good work, please :)
    Stoerte*
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  8. TheGutterRunner

    TheGutterRunner Member

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    A detailed post! I will try and answer in kind. Sorry for the delay - been a bit busy IRL.
    I and other have tested many games. There are some known issues but nothing on the scale of what you posted here. I'm pretty sure it's because you posted a single-player game rather than a multi-player game. This may seem trivial to you but let me explain a little.
    Players are stored slightly differently in the save files depending on what category of player they are. Let me give you some examples.
    - Normal player, who plays for your team. Cumulative statistics kept, player can develop.
    - Star player. This is a copy of the star player master record, so can be found on many teams. No cumulative stats kept. (although in BBDB, it does, so you can see a history of Morg's appearances for various teams and how many SPP he would have)
    - Mercenary/journeyman. This are one-off players too, however they can become normal player (unfortunately there is no record of this link... a new Normal Player is created)
    - AI teams. These are teams with semi-random names, semi-random skills that do not come from a fixed template.

    I cater for the first 3 pretty well - they each have their quirks that have to be dealt with - but I never tried to do anything with the 4th. Now you may think "well BBM did that, why can't you" - well that's because the scope of my project is bigger. BBM made no link between player dice rolls and the player themselves - ie those dice rolls didn't exist in BBM outside of that match screen. BBDB on the other hand matches up those rolls to the player so you can see (for example) how many GFI's your idiot runner has failed this season. There should be a link from the competition page to give you these numbers.

    This is down to a very common misconception on the difference between an injury and a casualty and is probably the most asked question. Consequently it's listed on the FAQ on the website. I quote it here...
    I'm not sure that fully explains it... another way of putting it is that casualties are things that result in your player getting 2SPP... hopefully one or both of those explanations makes sense. In any case I am directly quoting what the saved game says - it's not an extra statistic I am deriving.

    Yeah... I think that's right. Star player's injuries show but journeymen/mercs may not.

    I'm not sure where you're referring to? If you tell me I can see if I can help. Generally speaking though, one of the most useful hints for using the website is to hover over any acronyms you may see... it usually tells you what it is.

    Ah yes, the turn ends screen... it was mainly to show up the really slow players :D I'm aware there are some issues with it.

    Just to state my position re: the dice stats. I know they are not perfect... though they are better than your post suggests due to single-player games not being supported... I would give the work maybe 6 or 6.5 out of 10. They're fairly useable though, and most importantly better than nothing... I do strive for perfection in my code, but when BBM went down I rushed to develop dice analysis code so that the guys in my group would have something, and it was appreciated. @Stoertebeker it is clear from your post that you appreciate it too & I take your comments as constructive criticism... these comments are for those who may find flaws and thus consider it useless, or me an inept coder.

    Yes, I would like these things too, and the database has been built to do it, so even if I don't get round to writing the code, someone else could. re: defending player's AV, MB, claw, I should be able to pick up these things from the players' details. About the D6, the problem comes when you just roll 1's or 6's, as the log file just says "failure" or "success" whereas if you roll between a 2 or a 5 it also tells you all the modifiers that were in place. So if your AG4 player fails a pickup (which is normally a 2+) by rolling a 1, I don't know what that player actually needed. The path I'm aiming down is to assume that they needed a 2 and to mark that that's a best guess. In reality there could've been 3 tackle zones on the ball, making it a 5+ in reality. This deriving of required rolls can get a bit complicated... as another example imagine a re-roll, your first one is a 1 but your second one is a 3 and from the second I can see that it was a 3+ roll... so I can retrospectively go back to the first 1 you rolled and say for sure that you needed a 3.

    Thanks :) re: the block dice probability... the scope for BBDB can be distilled down to...
    1) Replicate what BBM did
    2) Do more than was BBM did
    The vast majority of the work I've done is under point 1, but I like getting a few things done under point 2 like the block dice probability.. it feels like real accomplishment and also excites the users a bit I think :)
     
    Nikolai II likes this.
  9. Stoertebeker

    Stoertebeker Member

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    Hi and thanks for your explanations. A few more comments:

    Actually this was a league match. I loaded the replay, watched the match, then uploaded the match files. I got another league match tomorrow and will try to upload immediately after the match to see if it makes a difference.

    From the FAQ I gathered that Knockdowns are armor breaks as result of a block on the pitch. So I went and counted the occurences in the replay and team A broke team B's armor 10 times, and team B broke team A's armor 9 times. In the statistics block, team A had 9 knockdowns listed and team B 10 knockdowns.
    After seeing the statistics I had thought that team B had knocked down team A 10 times, instead they have been knocked down 10 times.
    I hope this clarifies what I meant.

    Again, thanks for your work. I don't want to bash your program in any way, I just want to help work out the kinks.
     
  10. Raveen

    Raveen Member

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    #Rollingthunder on quakenet
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    See, that's the level of testing that we're just too lazy to do :)

    Good work Stoertebeker!
     
  11. Stoertebeker

    Stoertebeker Member

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    Ok, I just uploaded another league match (this time immediately after the match) and in this case found that the Knockdown statistic worked as expected. Knochdowns correspond to Knockdowns inflicted.

    The Player List and D6 statistics also seemed correct.
    All Tabs beyond D6 (2D6, Block Dice etc.) are empty, though they seem to work fine on other matches. Yes, I looked at the match report first, then went back and did CTRL-F5. I guess I will check again later, maybe they just need some time to process.

    Again, some armor rolls are not listed in Match Report (see below, after 3.)
    1. (RR: no data) Magnus Vanilla block (RS-BD)Both Down => Wrestled (success)
    2. (RR: no data) Descartes Vanilla block (BD-PS)Pushed => Pushed
    3. (RR: no data) Sokrates Vanilla block (RS-BD)Both Down => Defender down (on the spot)
    4. (RR: no data) Zenon Go For It (2)6 => Success
    5. (RR: no data) Zenon Go For It (2)4 => Success
    Haven't found anything else :)
     
  12. TheGutterRunner

    TheGutterRunner Member

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    You still haven't said where you are seeing this statistic.

    I would guess you mean on the match report page, where it says KD - and you hover over it then it says "knockdowns inflicted". I can't fit full descriptions everywhere, the pages would be even uglier than they already are.

    I will look at the other stuff, when I get back into development of this.
     
  13. Stoertebeker

    Stoertebeker Member

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    I mean the red-and-blue-bars graph right at the top of the match report page. But the Knockdowns inflicted in the Player stat part below corresponds to the values above, so please forget about that for now ;)

    I still can't see all statistics for match #256 though. Player List and D6 work fine but the rest remains empty, no matter what I try.
     
  14. TheGutterRunner

    TheGutterRunner Member

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    The graph, right, I will change the text to make it clear, that's no problem.

    Re: match #256. This is an intermittent error that affects maybe 5% of matches... I've seen it a few other places too. Sorry!
     
  15. Brothers Grimm

    Brothers Grimm New Member

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    blomerley
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    Hi TheGutterRunner - is your website still available to upload random match replays (BB1 CE)? I'm keen to analyze some old matches in order to create some match reports. I can see the username you posted in 2016 (AWcoach) but can't seem to access based on your password clue. Maybe i'm just being dim :)

    Anyway, any help would be very much appreciated. I can see that you have released BBDB as open source, but i'm not confident that I could set up my own.

    Thanks