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BB2020 team building strategies

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by patbou73, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    How important will it be to invest gold in Dedicated Fans?

    As an example, with Elven Union : Does it make sense to trade a Thrower or two for +1/+3 DF? See below.

    ROSTER A: 2 Blitzers, 1 Catcher, 2 Throwers, 3 rerolls, +1 DF (2) = 1000k.
    ROSTER B: 2 Blitzers, 1 Catcher, 1 Thrower, 3 rerolls, +2 DF (3) = 995k.
    ROSTER C: 2 Blitzers, 1 Catcher, 3 rerolls, +4 DF (5) = 1000k.

    There’s also a 2 Catchers TV1000 that is possible...

    ROSTER D: 2 Blitzers, 2 Catchers, 3 rerolls, +0 DF (1) = 1000k.
    ROSTER E: 2 Blitzers, 2 Catchers, 2 Throwers, 2 rerolls, +2 DF (3) = 1000k.

    Considering how hard it will now be to do vanity passes, and the slow progression of Linemen that we can thus expect, I think it make sense to have 1 and even 2 Throwers. These will level up fast, and can make the team overall better in short period of time. But there’s that dilemma: less positionals for more Dedicated Fans?
     
  2. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    Just so you know, I never played in the era where investing a lot in Fan Factor was the de facto choice.
     
  3. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    The other question is whether you want to win in your 1st season or is building up a few stars more important.

    In the OCC where the 1st 2 or 3 seasons are basically just building the team and winning isn't a priority I would go for option E.
    The 1st season you just get skills on the 6 positionals , save your cash and decide which of them you want to redraft next season.
    Blitzers pass on a 3+ so should do the turn 8/16 vanity passes as SPP on them is more important than on the throwers.
    Then once you are in the higher divisions where winning matters you go with 3 rerolls , around 3 FF and keep the players you need to win.

    In the Big Crunch where there are only 3 tiers and where winning in season 1 will get you straight to Altdwarf I would go for B or C.
    You want 3 rerolls to have a chance of winning and the dedicated fans will get you a bench quicker.

    Note that pro linemen currently take a while to get to level 3 and most die before reaching it.
    With the new rules they get a random primary skill for 1 MVP so they will actually level at the same rate initially.
    You just will be sacking and rehiring if the random 1st skill is no good.
     
  4. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    Each dedicated fan (Which costs you only 10k each) gets you an extra 5k winnings per game, so after first 2 games its paid for itself and as long as you don't lose all the time to make it go down a lot, generally a worthy investment that pays for itself quickly.

    However if a team can have all it wants off the bat (Or close to it), may be fine to let DF just go up from winning games.

    As for question for Elf Union, I would go option B or C myself.

    With redrafting building your team is a never ending process as the teams constantly fluctuate after a few seasons when keeping all your expirenced players all the time becomes not plausable
     
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  5. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    If you start with 6 dedicated fans and lose every game and you roll badly and the DF goes down by 1 each time you still end up ahead.
    In the 1st 5 games you get 25K + 20K +15K + 10K +5K over what you would get with 1 DF.
    So you have 85K more money for an initial cost of 50K.
     
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  6. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    True @tys123 , I hadn't done maths beyond just knowing it would be worth it on some level.
     
  7. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    We pay for DF, but does it count towards TV?
     
  8. Jorgen_CAB

    Jorgen_CAB Member

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    Dedicated Fans does not count against your TV.

    If you want to have extra Dedicated Fans it have to come at the expense of less possitional players on the team. It's not worth it versus cutting down on re-rolls.

    Both Re-rolls and Dedicated Fans are more value efficient than players as long as you don't have to kick any players later on for trimming down the team after getting the positional players you want.

    More positional might also mean you manage to score more TD in the first few games which also give you money... but that is soft increase that you can't know how useful it will be.

    How important is to you to win games or rather to not lose games. Winning games might also lead to higher Dedicated Fans. So, the cost to risk benefits is very difficult to calculate.

    In my opinion it is probably not worth considering Dedicate Fans over getting what you think is important to the teams chances of winning, develop or get less injuries. I would only take Dedicated Fans if I get the odd 10-20k left.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2020
  9. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    Thankfully for me, all the teams I have most interst in playing so far can fit in 3-4 DF easily in starting build without sacrificing anything I would otherwise get.
     
  10. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    The Underworld team has a decision to make.
    You can get snotlings for 15K to use swarming and get 12-14 players on the pitch or get the fans to buy more snots later.
     
  11. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    The builds I've been looking at (Human and Imperial) don't leave much room for Dedicated Fans if I want a good number of positionals. I'm also left weighing up whether or not buying one or two Dedicated Fans would slow down the progress toward that crucial Apothecary.

    My target Human build:

    Ogre, 4 Blitzer, Thrower, 2 Catcher, 3 Linemen, 3 Re-roll comes in at 990k, allowing 1 DF.


    Imperial options allow for more DF simply because their positional rosters leave no room for Re-rolls.

    For example:

    Ogre, 2 Blitzer, Thrower, 4 Bodyguard, 3 Linemen and just 1 Re-roll comes in at 990k. With Re-rolls at a starting cost of 70k, doubling to 140k once any league kicks off, that's a long time to save up for another one. Realistically you would struggle to cut more than two positionals or drop the Ogre, which leaves two options.

    Running 2 Bodyguard and 5 Linemen would save 90k and allow a second Re-roll, but still come in at 980k.

    Dropping the Ogre and having 4 Linemen would save 95k and come in at 975k with a second Re-roll.

    In both cases you can afford 2 DF.

    Mathematically assuming a 50/50 chance of winning or losing each game, you need to buy 2 or more DF to earn back anything more than the cost on average. More on that later (when I have time to prove).
     
  12. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    Draws are best when it comes to buying fans. If you draw your 1st game you are guaranteed to at least get your money back for the fans and likely make a profit.
    If you only buy 1 fan then there is a 1 in 6 chance of you losing 5K with a win or loss. So if you assume all 3 results are equally likely then it is only an 11% chance of making a loss.
    Draw your 1st game after buying 1 fan and there is an 89% chance of you making money.
    The Maths is more complicated for 2+ games so I will leave that to someone with more time.
     
  13. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

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    That's a sweet starting roster for Humans.
     
  14. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    This was on my radar to take a look out so thanks for all the input so far, saves me a bit of work!

    It does feel odd that we may be going back to having to buy fans in the starting rosters right away. Even more so when you consider that was removed from the rules as that was never the intention of the fans rules when they were introduced. It doesn't look like it's quite as important as before though and you can get away with not doing so.
     
  15. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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  16. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    Good article! :)

    I’m not sure however the underdog automatically rolls on the Prayers to Nuffle table. My understanding is that you first spend your petty cash on inducements, then recalculate TV with these inducements, then if the difference in TV is bigger than 50k, the underdog rolls once on that table for each full 50k. In other words, you only get a Prayer if you’re still the underdog by more than 50k after buying inducements.

    But I may be wrong... Enlighten me if I am!
     
  17. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    No looks like you are correct, why isn't the Prayers of Nuffle table listed under Inducements. I guess because it's also referred to on the Kick Off Table as well.

    I'll update the article, thanks for questioning it!
     
  18. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    I think the reason Prayers to Nuffle isn't in the inducement section is that if a coach spends money from their treasury to buy something then the other coach will get the Prayers to Nuffle.

    So if coach A gets 50K in petty cash and puts 100K from his treasury in to get a wizard while coach B doesn't do anything then after the inducement step coach B will get 2 rolls on the Prayers to Nuffle as he is now a 100K underdog.
     
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  19. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's basically there to help balance things a bit when one or other coach puts money from their Treasury in to buy inducements.
     
  20. Jorgen_CAB

    Jorgen_CAB Member

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    Yes... the Nuffle table is not suppose to be an inducement or being as strong as other inducements that you want to actually use gold for. I think it would be rare to not buy inducement to get a roll on the Nuffle table from petty cash, the Nuffle table is not that strong and is certainly not suppose to be.