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Blood Bowl 2: Legendary Edition

Discussion in 'Blood Bowl 2' started by St Cloud, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that's true, Orcs won't be getting huge amounts of inducements and the new banking system will prevent them from assembling huge cash reserves, they also don't get cheaper bribes and don't have secret weapons already so its not such a crazy deal. I'm not 100% but I think a number of the Goblin Star players no longer can play for Orcs in the 6th edition rules but I've not looked for a good long while to confirm. Also pretty much all bash teams get chainsaw access and most hybrid sides get stabbing access as well. Finally the stadium works for both sides so as long as the full lists of Star players are there for the teams both sides will have access to the cheaper star players (something bb1 really needed) so there's no real advantage. Now an argument could be made for it to be clearer as to any stadium effects in play during pre-match and at the kickoff but unlike Ageing I'm actually ok with the stadium enhancements in leagues because they effect both teams equally and in many cases can remove some luck factors from the match (weather, Riots, Pitch Invasions).

    The New star players are going to really help teams that are only 100-200k below there opponent by providing actual options in the inducement phase, even more so when looking at the around 100k difference because as it stands many options are basically meaningless in a lot of match ups. I've been refusing to use Khemri without access to the cheap Undead stars as Khemri top out at around 2k while Bash teams, Lizards, and Elves keep going to around 2.5k comfortably this means once you've grinded your way up to the top divisions in a league your playing the vast majority of your games with inducements and for Khemri specifically many of those inducements just aren't worth the cash and up to this point the Stars available are simply too expensive and/or provide little your team doesn't already have (Luthor is fantastic but its a huge cost), bribes have decreasing returns and require both player and pitch commitment to actually use, rerolls not needed, babes are always good and the Igor isn't even worth the digital space it occupies. Legendary edition means I can bring out my Khemri again and be confident of staying competitive all the way to the top of a league as I'll have options that will allow me to adapt to my opponent. I doubt I'd buy the stadium enhancement for cheaper stars though, getting rid of rain or riots would both be better options however I really love the +1 injury rolls for surfs because of how I use Khemri.

    Anyway I'm waffling but I disagree with your statement though I could be wrong its just my opinion at this stage, Ageing on the other hand couple utterly fuck teams like Khemri, halflings, goblins and Ogres who have very slow developing players that are critical to there gameplay and results.
     
  2. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    Does cyanide implement the 0-2 rule for star players? If so then the biggest effect it can have is 1000k saved.
     
  3. Zoraster

    Zoraster Active Member

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    The banking system – especially in its messed up Cyanide version providing free pre match spending from the overdog – is exactly why orcs will be doing this. Right now they burn money on stuff they don't need. For 60k at home games they could now be able to get a bomber and a saw... Bomber is still available to them and they have their own saw in Ugroth. Bomber is the real problem. 10K for any player is just broken, doubly so when it is something potentially useful. Barik is at least of marginal value for dwarfs as anything but throwaway fouler, but Boomer is a real issue. While Boomer is great for norse as a shock absorber they typically have more concerns keeping cash for player turnover; that is the element you are missing. The star player enhancement is a huge buff to teams who have no need of money, and access to seriously cheap and useful assets. Dwarfs and orcs in particular, khemri and undead to a lesser but still unbalanced extent.

    There should simply not be any players ever available to induce for 10k. I think you are making the usual stadium enhancement mistake of looking at it from the wrong perspective. Goblins typically get everything they want with little trouble anyway... they have a bevy of cheap stars and still can only employ two, they still only have three bribes, they still will run out of players and totally collapse every other game. Just as the real issue with the wizard enhancement is chaos using it to spike the inducement guns the real issue with the star player enhancement is the unintended consequences of the wealthy and durable big boys getting it.
     
  4. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking your meaning 100k and yes this is correct any concerns are in relation to cheap stars whom have a cost of 100k or less. 1000k would be a teams worth of inducements that would be extreme! :p I assume its still 0-2 per team but I've not actually checked.

    I see what your saying but I've got to wonder how much play a bomber would get in a high TV orc team, I could see the chainsaw even if only used for fouling or as a distraction but they are a lot more expensive being 100K & 120K for each (Orcs can take two). Bomber Dribblesnot on the other hand is a bit of a liability on such a team and I'm doubtful he would have a spot in a experienced Orc side. The Dwarfs I could see more due to there having block but even still its fairly debatable because of how the dwarf team functions as a unit.

    Spending wise and the bank I still disagree with a high Tv maintaining any kind of bank is a nightmare, even making a profit game to game becomes a struggle so spending even small amounts will mean you don't have cash to replace players who die. I also think teams should be encouraged to spend cash and I'm actually a fan of the current inducement system when used with the banking rules because it allows for you to spend your treasury before a important match and see a return for it even if your the higher valued side but doing so comes at the cost of reducing your cash for player replacements and with increased difficulty at gaining new funds.

    I also agree that 10k for a inducement is too little, but being as it effects both teams and all teams have some cheap options open to them its not providing an advantage to one side over another, as long as both teams take advantage of it. I agree the Wizard may be more of an issue simply by its mitigation of the advantage gained from said wizard in the first place, most of the threads I've seen about it complain that in the hands of Elves its too strong, but I actually beg to differ, I feel in the hands of High Value Nurgle, Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf and Orc teams is where this shines because it counters the Agility sides advantages from a Wizard and removes the bonus of having said inducement.

    I can see the argument for both the Star Player upgrade and especially the Wizard upgrade being too good though I'm more inclined to see the former in practise opposed to the later, the other upgrades are all fine in my opinion however and If given the choice if running a league I'd allow all upgrades except the Wizard at least initially and withdraw the Star player one if it was later decided to be too unbalanced.

    A final thought; Your concern is largely that Orc and Dwarf teams specifically will be able to take too much advantage of this bonus but I've got to ask you how many Orc or Dwarf teams win long term private league competitions? I don't think its many at all, while those teams perform very well in short term competitions and events in league play they don't get the championship wins that other top tier one sides like High/Dark/Wood Elves, Chaos/Nurgle/Chaos Dwarfs or Necromantic teams do, so one has to wonder if these tier one sides don't need a boost at the high tv side of progressive league play. Tv matters in terms of team performance many teams see a noticeable drop off or increase in win ratio when looked at in the 2k+ bracket, Vampire teams for example really jump in terms of win ratio, putting them easily within the Tier one bracket while Khemri actually drop from being a bottom end of the performance tier one side to a lower end of tier two in win ratio. I'm a fan of anything that could change up the cycle of those 7 teams winning 90% of leagues season after season as long as its applied equally and doesn't mess up the more balanced lower end of play too much (which it shouldn't being as stadium upgrades are simply way too expensive for young teams to have). Ageing could be argued to alter that top 7 but its more likely effect is to reduce that top 7 down to a top 3 Elven team cycle with those other 4 teams occasionally stealing a title being as Elven sides are the team least affected by the long term player retirement ageing causes.

    To conclude I'm not saying your wrong and I definitely can see where your coming from but I'm pretty sure its not as grim as you imagine either, I'd be surprised if it really had that much of an effect in League play. Knock out competitions I'm less sure of because long term development and team building becomes secondary to getting results game to game so I could see a stronger argument against the implementation in these competitions. This has reminded me of something else I've always hated in 6th edition bb, that secret weapons and stabs don't gain star player points, fouling as well but to a lesser degree but secret weapons I can see literally no reason why a chainsaw shouldn't level for its cas damage while a deathroller does, its not as if goblins are stupid OP or anything.
     
  5. Regor

    Regor Well-Known Member

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  6. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

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    Yay, go flings!
     
  7. Sataric

    Sataric Well-Known Member

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    For those of you that did not read the full article: The first Beta is a STRESS TEST on the servers. They wish for as many people as possible to be online and play a match around 15:00 UTC on Friday the 4th of August. The way I see it, it's in our best interest to participate in this because it'll show them if they need to invest in better servers or not before the full release.
     
  8. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    I'll be at work then as most people in EU time zones will be, typical Focus/Cyanide numptyism!

    But I do think a BBT ladder or something to take advantage of the short beta would be good.
     
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  9. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

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    Cyanide are French mais oui? They probably all finish at 2pm on a Friday...
     
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  10. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    Racist :D

    And speaking of racism, given the 4 new races we may have to ban dorfs ...
     
  11. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I feel a bout of stunty coming on.
     
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  12. mamutas

    mamutas Well-Known Member

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    I'd play, but this is when I start my work, not finish it.
     
  13. williamspd

    williamspd Active Member

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    I bought the LE2 upgrade so I'll be around for the Beta test at some points tomorrow but not all the time - lots of animal and family stuff going on as well as a bit of businessy stuff. But when is 5pm CEST? Is that 15:00 UTC? I'll probably be shipping animals to kennels but if I am around I'll pipe up in Live Chat and I'd love to play a game :)
     
  14. Sataric

    Sataric Well-Known Member

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    15:00 UTC is correct. (or 16:00 British time, if you prefer!)
     
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  15. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'll be at work...back around 18-19 GMT and ready to fling some flings!
     
  16. williamspd

    williamspd Active Member

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  17. ManBearPig

    ManBearPig Well-Known Member

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    Anyone know when the beta actually starts today? Is it that time they want everyone to be "playing a game"? That will be tough considering if that's when it starts everyone is going to be creating teams not playing a game....
     
  18. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    The start time is also when a lot of the player base would still be at work.

    So not really sure when they want the peak number of players.
     
  19. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

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    Beta goes live at 1pm UK time, stress test at 4 UK time apparently
     
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  20. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    At 4pm? So when most the playerbase is at work? UK players in work (For most jobs), EU players still at work or only just leaving, US players are in late morning at that point.

    Surely 7 or 8PM UK time would be the more logical time for the stress test...

    Can't imagine Cyanide is going to get much out of this stress test if they are focusing on the stress on the server at that time only.