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Rules Blood Bowl 2020 Official Team Tiers

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Coach, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I thought it might be handy to have a post with a list of how Games Workshop have marked the team tiers in the new leaked rules.

    Tier 1.
    Dark Elf
    Dwarf
    Human
    Lizardmen
    Old World Alliance
    Orc
    Shambling Undead
    Skaven
    Wood Elf

    Tier 2.

    Black Orc
    Chaos Chosen
    Chaos Renegades
    Elven Union
    Imperial Nobility
    Necromantic Horror
    Nurgle
    Underworld

    Tier 3.
    Goblin
    Halfling
    Ogre
    Snotling
     
  2. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    Orcs and Old World Alliance shouldn't be Tier 1, IMHO. I'm hopeful for DElves, WElves and Skaven, but not sure they can hold the fort of Tier 1 with the new passing rules.
     
  3. Shadow

    Shadow Active Member

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    DElves having none random access to guard and the new anti-guard skill seem to give them a huge boost to advancement at being a ag4 bash team.
     
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  4. Alistair Hutton

    Alistair Hutton Member

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    Skaven get 2+ Pass on the Thrower. Their throwing game has been improved.
     
  5. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    This. There will be a lot of scope for picking what would have been doubles before as standard builds for only a modest price increase. Blodge Guard Blitzers for many races are now easily obtained.
     
  6. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    Which is a bit ridiculous. It will stop being fun the moment you realise everybody is doing the same, and all players are alike. Secondary skills will become the norm on many builds, and not just a lucky advancement. Frankly, I don’t like this at all. I’ll take advantage of it, for sure. But I doubt the game will be more interesting. Blodge will become the vanilla build on players like Orcs and Humans Blitzers, and all DElves Assassins will level up to Multi Block at the first opportunity. Wardancers will have MB standard, and simple Lineman will spam Guard. What was once rare will become the norm, and all players will develop the same way. Where’s the fun of diversity? Isn’t Blood Bowl supposed to be the craziness of rolling dice? I doubt paying a few more SPPs and adding 10k to TV will make up for that.

    Oh, at first we’ll see diversity. Until the metagame settles and the intricacies of the new system are fully explored. But the « best » build will soon be found by pros, articles will be written, we’ll copy paste, and not even have to hope for that double, we’ll pay for it.

    That’s it, I’m rambling and complaining again, like the old man that I am. Gee, these shoes were comfortable, why change them? :(
     
  7. dissatisfiedcow

    dissatisfiedcow Member

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    I share your concerns. I was additionally worried about the cost difference between random skills and the same skills when picked. Specifically in the case of a perpetual league, it seems strange to see two identical teams with vastly different TV, just because one coach has been randomizing his team for ages.

    However, I think that the seasons system should solve most of this. You will only have a few matches to level your players before having to redraft them (presumably after playing each opposing coach exactly once). Because you have to pay an ever increasing premium for keeping the same player, and because of the redrafting price ceiling, I would expect a lot fewer players with 3+ additional skills getting redrafted over and over.
    Even though there will definitely be builds to work towards, I don't think many teams will ever make it to that final godly build. Most will be perpetually trying to get there with players in varying stages of development.

    Supposedly, there will also always be players that build unconventional teams. Because always building the same thing is boring, or because they want to challenge themselves. I hope you will find these players too in your leagues ;)
     
  8. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I think that leagues will need to shift to longer seasons if they use the new redrafting rules. A typical 10 team division could for example change from a 9 game season to an 18 game season with home and away games.

    This would mean that teams would be able to develop a decent amount and not be so impacted by a high frequency of redrafting.

    Redrafting could also mean that horizontal division structures with end of season play-off (like the NFL), make more sense than vertical structures with promotion and relegation.
     
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  9. Waldorf

    Waldorf New Member

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    Discussion of Tiers seems to be hampered by the fact GW and the NAF seem to use the word to mean different things. Page 107 of the new rule book suggests the Tiering system is more to do with the accessibility of the team and how forgiving it is to play rather than its raw competitiveness.
     
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  10. notorious noob

    notorious noob Well-Known Member

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    tbh skaven are tier 1 competitiveness but certainly not for ease of play so that doesnt really make sense either?
     
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  11. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    18 game seasons might be too long - the difference in tv between and random and chosen skills legend war dancer in that time is significant.

    I also think at redraft the tv difference between random and not needs to be equalised (which I don’t think is in the rules).

    Ideally, in BB3 leagues could have the option to disable random skills.
     
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  12. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I was also wondering if some formats may not have a random skill option in Blood Bowl 3 when it comes out, specifically perpetual formats.
     
  13. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    This is true, but that really only helps on the skaven offense, where skaven don't have a lot of issues scoring to begin with. Skaven defense, on the other hand, is very dependent on being able to pop the ball out, get a gutter in there to grab the ball, and then making a quick pass to another gutter to get out of there. I see skaven being much more difficult on defense with the 2020 rules. Break Tackle isn't as effective at cage busting any more, so the rat ogre won't be as good on defense either.
     
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  14. dissatisfiedcow

    dissatisfiedcow Member

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    I'm pretty sure that the new tiering levels are supposed to be less granular than you're suggesting. As I understand it, tier 1 is easiest to play and win with (and imo directly because of that also most competitive), tier 2 is (very) challenging, and tier 3 is stunty league aka don't expect to win often / at all. In that regard Skaven may not be the easiest to play, but probably a lot easier than a starting Nurgle roster.

    Because of all the changes to the core game (mainly the passing game and the domino of related aspects) I cannot foresee what the actual correct tiers will be, but I'm skeptical about T1 Humans and Orcs and T2 Necromantic.
    I'm really wondering about OWA and I wish that they will prove to be T2, because (like Chaos Renegades) they seem too much like a min-maxy team to be allowed to be good at the game.
     
  15. Niessuh

    Niessuh New Member

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    Now choosing a secondary skill is +40k, that is four random primary skills!

    This is too expensive to do it regularly. In example, a DE lineman with dodge and guard, 70+20+40 = 130k
    For exactly the same price I could get a dwarf longbeard with six full random ST skill ups: 70+10+10+10+10+10+10 =130k
    Pick six skills randomly out of ten: arm bar, brawler, break tackle, grab, guard, juggernaut, mighty blow, Múltiple block, pile driver, stand firm.

    Which player do you prefer?
     
  16. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    Actually, I prefer the Elf with Dodge and Guard *if* the 6 random skills the dwarf got are brawler (meh), break tackle (meh), juggernaut (useless if not blitzing), multiple block (not strong enough to use it), pile driver (now a foul, risk of being sent off, MA 1 after standing up) and grab (ok). Grab is the best in that list, but Guard and Stand Firm are really the skills you want for a Longbeard. Of course, I fear the randomly good skill on a player that opts for this path. These will be too good for their TV. But these should be rare. One secondary skill on an important player will be extremely annoying, particularly if this becomes the norm.
     
  17. Shadow

    Shadow Active Member

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    Guard so good for low ag teams like dwarfs that at least for the first few level up I can't see guard not being chosen over a random skill. Just have to see the new meta with defensive in the mix.
     
  18. Niessuh

    Niessuh New Member

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    Well that is the worst possible result, I would fire that unlucky longbeard ASAP. And probably choosing guards and a couple of MB is a must at start indeed. But after that...

    Also brawler is an excelent skill. Rerolling both down results is awesome and will decide lockdowns.

    We will surely see a debate about random skill ups use when the game came out. Statistics will decide. Do not let the tradicional ways blind you :p
     
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  19. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    If you roll Both Down + Pow, or Both Down + Defender Down against a non-Dodger target, Brawler is totally useless. If you roll Both Down + Skull, you have 1 in 3 chances of Turnover when you use Brawler (instead of 1 in 9 with a reroll), and half the time you won’t even put target down with you (roll another Skull instead of Both Down again). I can see it is good if you roll Both Down + Push, as you’re already guaranteed a safe dice, and only hope Nuffle will help you put target down with Brawler. Both Down + Both Down is a no brainer : you reroll one dice, and 2 in 3 will be a push or better.

    It’s a good skill on Big Guys who often roll 3D blocks. But it’s just meh on other players. The new Black Orcs team will certainly appreciate it, but I doubt many other players will want to spend a skill on Brawler if they already have Block. Pro is much better, IMHO. Brawler I’d thus a bit like Leap. Everyone fear a Wardancer leaping into a cage, but it’s very rare you see any other race develop a player with that skill.
     
  20. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    It all comes down to how leagues are structured. In an eternal league with unlimited games per week, like CCL, random skills could become very strong, but with redrafting they become less problematic.