1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Rules Blood Bowl 2020 Official Team Tiers

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Coach, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. ImaginaryFriend

    ImaginaryFriend New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Country Flag:
    At least on BB3 ccl there will probably be a set match limit/season so you would have to redraft every x number of games.

    The amount of gold that has been on the leaks is a million gold +20k for every game played and +20k/+10k for win/draw. Rerolls/apos can be retained at team creation value.

    If we assume someone wins all games in a 15 game season he would have 1.6 million to pay for redraft.

    Every player will have his cost increase by 20k for every season played and for skills of course. So the DE lineman from above would cost 150k to redraft first time and 170k for second time.

    So after first season a DE team with 900k base player value gets ten skill ups on 6 players with average of 20k value would cost ,not skilled ones being linemen, 280k for new linemen 620k+120k+200k for retained players +skills+new season cost and 150k for two rerolls and an apo.
    Thats 1.37 million after first season. At same skill up rate the team would cost 1.69 million next season.
    Given that with a 15 match season that 1.6 million is the max you can ever have for redraft you will have to make some choices after second season at the latest.

    I think this will mean that after a season or two you have teams with changing "star players" as old ones are cycled out to make room for newer cheaper ones.
    And most linemen may have to do with random skills to lower costs and increase rate of skill ups on players you are unlikely to retain anyway or if they get spp late in season and you just want use it before its too late.

    Season length will of course alter the general TV of the teams but more skills still mean more cost.
     
    Mr Suplex likes this.
  2. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

    Messages:
    132
    Country Flag:
    Exactly!!! Its amazing to me how many people gloss over this fundamental change when evaluating rosters and hypothetical player advancement. It a huge change that no one factors in to their analysis.
     
  3. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    4,172
    Location:
    Scunthorpe
    Steam Username:
    Gallows-Bait
    Cyanide Username:
    Gallows Bait
    Country Flag:
    I also think people will be weighing up the depth of bench more in eagues as spending more means carrying less cash into the next season if the treasury rolls over, which I believe it does.

    Making the decision between a 12th/13th player now or 50-70k extra for redrafting will become a decision to be faced near the end of a season.
     
  4. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,212
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    The redrafting rules will mean that the commissioners choice of how long a season will effect a lot of team builds. Redrafting after 9 games is a world of difference from redrafting after 20. TT leagues could do whatever they want but BB3 leagues could be restricted depending on what admin tools they have. BB3 could mean the end of a number of current league structures if we are forced to redraft at the end of every 9 game season with half the teams being either crippled or made boring by redrafting.
     
  5. ImaginaryFriend

    ImaginaryFriend New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Country Flag:
    Yes. I just watched a youtube clip showing the leaked rules about seasons and you do carry over any remaining treasury.
    There is however a thing about a possibility to set a cap to the redraft gold. It might be a good idea in leagues that also feature new teams since new teams have harder time getting full value out of inducements.

    MVP will apparently change to be a D16 roll for 4spp.
    That might get players to fill rosters but i think it will just be a random punishment for players who roll badly.
    At least in online ladders with 16 players you would have inflated TV and have to play with 16 rookies against 11 veterans and we all know that would end.
    Better the current system or even better remove the chance of giving it to stars or dead players. Team development is the most fun part of BB and it would be stupid to make it less fun.
     
  6. BitsHammer

    BitsHammer New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Montana
    Country Flag:
    So I've took a look at the redrafting leaks instead of just relying on some of the things I've seen online and here's some stuff I've noticed:
    • Everyone starts with 1 million gold and adds the contents of their treasury (which can include winnings from the end of the league as well)
    • Each team then gains 20,000 for each game they played last season (friendlies and league fixtures)
    • Each team then gains an additional 20,000 for each league fixture they've won last season
    • Each team then gains an additional 10,000 for each league fixture they drew last season.
    So a nine game season would put you at 1,180,000 gold before calculating in losses and draws or adding in a treasury, and that's assuming you didn't play any friendlies

    At the high end a 20 game season would put you at 1,400,000 before adding any additional winnings or treasury money.

    As for the 1.3 Million cap? It's mentioned as completely optional and up to the Commissionar as a way to level the playing field so to speak, so no team goes in with any major advantage over the others.

    Honestly the more I read into it the more I feel it's to keep the game in the mid-TV range where most teams are most balanced against each other without letting the teams get so out of control that new players struggle and then give up after joining.
     
  7. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

    Messages:
    745
    Country Flag:
    Which makes sense if you want to build a community and not have newbies terrorized by veterans.
     
    BitsHammer likes this.
  8. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Cyanide Username:
    Street
    Country Flag:
    Honestly I would play in a 1300 redrafting TV cap league, though I guess if that is a cap commissionars could set any cap they want for redrafting if people think that is a little low and still don't want it getting too crazy.
     
    BitsHammer likes this.
  9. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,212
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    All that is fine and there are currently leagues that do that sort of thing I’m not opposed to more options. But forcing leagues to have to do it seems daft. Maybe the redrafting works better now but the only time I tried redrafting a team it basically destroyed it. I was forced to choose between building for playoffs or saving for next season that isn’t a fun decision to make.
     
  10. BitsHammer

    BitsHammer New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Montana
    Country Flag:
    Redrafting is largely designed to reset teams so they don't get out of control. It's not hard for a team that's played a few seasons to crush newer teams just by having so many skills on their players, not to mention built up staff and re-rolls as well.

    I get that it feels like it "destroys" the team, but that's kind of the point. It lets you keep a couple favorite players while resetting the team so you get a small advantage for having played the last season, but not an overwhelming one.
     
  11. ImaginaryFriend

    ImaginaryFriend New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Country Flag:
    One interesting idea that was discussed in some leak clip was the possibility of moving online teams to different leagues/ladders by going through that leagues redraft process with what ever cap is set there.

    This would mean that we could have teams with real history instead of always making new teams.
     
    BitsHammer likes this.
  12. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,212
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    But there are teams that are slow building teams. Constantly rebuilding them isn’t fun. I had to choose between going down to 4 Ogres or dropping to 11 players and 2 rerolls. That’s not a fun decision.

    If you want a competition that allows rookie teams to play against teams who have played 50+ games then redrafting is a good idea and the problems associated with it can be worked round. however if you have leagues where rookie teams only have to play against other rookie teams or inexperienced teams before working their way up to the nasty teams then that structure is going to take a big hit if they have to redraft with no real benefit.
     
  13. BitsHammer

    BitsHammer New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Montana
    Country Flag:
    I don't get this claim of "no benefit". I mean a team that starts with an extra 300k (talking about the 1.3 million cap as an example) is going to be more developed, even if it only takes rookies.
     
  14. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Cyanide Username:
    Street
    Country Flag:
    For say big crunch or similar leages, I could see redrafting caps of different values depending on tier being a good way to make people not feel as disadvantaged when playing more expirenced teams in any div, makes fighting to promote more incentived as well as you can keep a bigger squad as long as you get to and stay in higher tiers.
     
  15. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    4,172
    Location:
    Scunthorpe
    Steam Username:
    Gallows-Bait
    Cyanide Username:
    Gallows Bait
    Country Flag:
    I've been pondering doing something like that. If my work calms down by then. NFL style divisions perhaps. Might have to brush off the old Crunch Cup artwork. :p
     
  16. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,212
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    I wasn’t referring to benefit to the team it’s benefit to the league. The point of redrafting is to avoid regular massive differences in TV. If the league does that already through depth of tiers then what is the benefit of redrafting?
     
  17. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    4,172
    Location:
    Scunthorpe
    Steam Username:
    Gallows-Bait
    Cyanide Username:
    Gallows Bait
    Country Flag:
    This would be my preference for tiered leagues as well. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they implement it.
     
  18. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,212
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    If the admin tools are there that’s a possibility but redrafting caps aren’t in the leaked rules and do we seriously think Cyanide are going to proactively add extra admin tools in?
     
  19. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    4,172
    Location:
    Scunthorpe
    Steam Username:
    Gallows-Bait
    Cyanide Username:
    Gallows Bait
    Country Flag:
    This is where I believe there is a second factor. Redrafting does change the typical TV that games will play at, which may favour different teams than the current kings of high TV perpetual leagues.

    Whether that's what people want will vary (such as your Ogres example) but it is an impact of the redrafting rule.

    To be honest though I fully expect it to be optional in the end.
     
  20. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    4,172
    Location:
    Scunthorpe
    Steam Username:
    Gallows-Bait
    Cyanide Username:
    Gallows Bait
    Country Flag:
    Really hope they do. They've never followed the rules on admining before. :p