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Rules Build a New Team

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by S1nner, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    Blood Bowl is a game that lives because of its dedicated fan base (see cult following). The reason people get hooked is because the rules allow for competitive play, but still gives players the power to change the game in the name of fun! About 75% of the LRB are optional rules (though cyanide has shown us the danger in this) and fluff detailing extraordinary events in the Blood Bowl. Also, nearly every table top league or tournament I have been to/heard about uses some form house rules. House rules (can)make the game fun and fresh, and still be in the spirit of the game. The big kahuna of house rules is implementing your very own team.

    Naturally, building a team from scratch has its pitfalls. It’s difficult to build a team that is competitive, yet doesn’t go overboard and become too powerful. Thankfully, there are guidelines to building teams that will help to curb ones... erm… enthusiasm without banishing the team to tier two.

    Blood Bowl Team Building Guidelines Checklist

    Some things to consider:
    These guidelines were written during 4th (possibly 3rd?) edition though they still hold true for the most part. Just be aware that you should treat wrestle as you would block.

    Also, the guidelines tell nothing about how rerolls are priced, nor how to decide who gets access to what skills on a normal/double roll. My personal experience of the game leads me to believe that the more a team needs rerolls, the more expensive they are. As for skill access, it seems to be somewhat fluff based, though there are several instances of team balancing in the book as well.

    Big guys are another issue. If you want a big guy on your team, it will spark some discussion the just as skill access will.

    Finally, there WILL be discussion about team balance. Do not get offended if someone points out that your team is too strong for reason x, y, and z. Realize there is a very thin line between a solid team and an overpowered one. The "best" teams in the game right now still only win about 57% of tournament games.

    Teams I want to see:
    Slaanesh
    Tzeentch
    Revised Human Team
    Revised Amazon Team
    I will post some teams, I just want to see what ya’ll make of teambuilding first :D

    So what team would you build and like to see in action? In the name of fun, let’s see what you would bring to the table!
     
  2. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Look forward to see some alternative chaos teams. Will try to build some. Interesting challenge:)
     
  3. Raveen

    Raveen Member

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    Here's my Hobgoblin Roster from TFF:

    Code:
    0-2   Hobgoblin Ishkhan   100000   7   3   3   8   Block, Sneaky Git   GS   AP
    0-2   Hobgoblin Thrower   70000   6   3   3   7   Pass, Sneaky Git   GP   AS
    0-2   Hobgoblin Rogue   90000   6   3   3   7   Stab, Sneaky Git   GA   SP
    0-16   Hobgoblin Lineman   50000   6   3   3   7   Sneaky Git   G   ASP
       Reroll   70000 
     
  4. mrpier

    mrpier Member

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    OK, I made up a team while being bored at work, it's probably not that original and is meant for a laugh.

    Warp displaced space marines :p

    0-16 Scout ST: 3 AG: 3 MV: 6 AR: 8
    0-4 Space Marine ST: 5 AG: 2 MV:5 AR: 9 Block, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, "For the emperor!"*
    0-2 Techpriest ST: 3 AG: 3 MV: 6 AR: 8 Sure Hands, Hail Mary Pass
    0-1 Dreadnought ST: 7 AG: 1 MV: 4 AR: 10 Mighty Blow, Break Tackle, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull

    * Space Marines are fanatics and must always block if they are in base contact with an opponent
     
  5. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Those space marines are way way overpowered. 4 str 5 guys starting with both block and migthy blow sure is a killer against any other team. Their "negative" trait is not negative as you would be sure to block with those guys everytime you get the chance.
     
  6. mrpier

    mrpier Member

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    I know, I should probably just have gone totally overboard with the rest of the team also, but I didn't have the time. :D
     
  7. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    @Raveen
    The Hobgoblin team is on the right track I think, but some of the numbers need to be tweaked. First off your thrower and rogue are overpriced. The throwers price should be dropped to 60k(ma/st/ag/av/skills 0/0/0/-2/+3=1+5=[6]).

    Also your rogues are overpriced. However, I would say your rogues would be team defining and your most interesting positional… if the entire team did not have Sneaky Git. The pairing of the two skills is an interesting one to say the least. He can walk over and stomp on a player on the ground, and if they get up next turn they must either dodge or get stabbed. However, nobody would risk their 90k positional with a foul, when their linemen come stock with the same stomping power. Stab is very useful on a team like this as well. Strength 3 Agility 3 teams have a lot of problems with mobility since they cannot dodge reliably and are not strong enough to push everyone. People will be wary of marking your rogue, giving you the ability to move him around as needed. (0/0/0/-2/+4=2+5=[7]) So 70k for these guys. However, since they are team defining, I would either consider making them 60k OR 0-4 choice.

    I feel your rerolls are overpriced. There are no base agility 3 teams in the game with rerolls for 70k.

    Finally, I feel the Hobgoblin team is Stupid. So add a REALLY stupid big guy. If I saw a troll on this roster, I would not think anything of it.

    So updated, I think the hobgoblin team would look more like…
    0-1 Hobgoblin Troll......110,000 4 5 1 9 Loner, etc............S GAP
    0-2 Hobgoblin Ishkhan.100000 7 3 3 8 Block, Sneaky Git..GS AP (10,000 Discount)
    0-2 Hobgoblin Thrower.60000 6 3 3 7 Pass, Sneaky Git....GP AS
    0-2 Hobgoblin Rogue....60000 6 3 3 7 Stab, Sneaky Git....GA SP (10,000 Discount)
    0-16 Hobgoblin Lineman 50000 6 3 3 7 Sneaky Git...........G ASP
    Reroll 60000
    TOTAL DISCOUNT: 40,000
     
  8. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Came up with a couple of these for the entertainment of the online league I take part in.

    Starting off another take on the Hobgoblins;

    [​IMG]

    More based on the old Dogs of War book, hence the human and ogre mercenary support and wolfriders are way to important to the old hobgoblin lore to leave them with out some representation.

    The other team was an attempt to make a big guy team similar to Ogres but with out going the stunty route.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    @Stryke
    First off, how do you get your teams in the little boxes? I must know!

    That is a very interesting spin on the Hobgoblin team. The only thing that gives me pause is the Wold Riders. 8438 would be far and away the best stat line in the game... But with Secret Weapon and Wild Animal traits it MIGHT be okay. It is somewhat fluffy as well, Hobgoblins bringing on mounted players seems in line with their demeanor. Instinct tells me to change them up a bit, but I would have to play test them to be sure. You may also experiment with Loner over Wild Animal.

    With The Troll team things get a bit murky. The biggest red flag on the team is the Troll King. S6 with General and Strength skill access and no neg traits... I would not want to face that. He also breaks the second law of character building, "No player's ST+AG should exceed 7".
     
  10. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Indeed a lot of these builds are overpowered and would never see the light of day.

    He got those rosters in boxes by posting a picture as well FYI.
     
  11. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Did them with OpenOffice Calc which is a free program that does a great job of imitating excel.

    I definitely prefer the Hobgoblins of the two I posted. Loner's a possibility for the wolf-riders sure, possibly knock 10k off the price in that case maybe.

    The Troll teams more sensible removing the King altogether now I take another look at it. Even with the King they're still pretty dreadful, barely any ball handling and a whole bunch of very unreliable players.
     
  12. Raveen

    Raveen Member

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    I was basing my Hobgoblin roster off the hobgoblin Team fluff from the 2nd edition. In that the Hobgoblin Team were the single worst side to play blood bowl so I was aiming at tier 3 (and hit tier 2 so I was overpowered too ;) ).

    That's why they don't have a big guy and why their rerolls are expensive and a couple of players are a bit steep. Being fair you'd be hard pressed to not have an almost full set of positionals along with 4 rerolls in a TV1000 league so I don't really see that it's a problem.
     
  13. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    [​IMG]
    Team Overview
    I think this would be a fun unique team to play. It is a relatively fast, agile team with its common shortcoming of fragility. The real kicker is utilizing the Fanatics and Succubus to their full advantage. The Fanatic’s Agility 3 is notoriously unreliable, but leaving your armor 7 in tackle zones really isn’t the best option. Coaches will have to make good use of Sidestep and Hypnotic Gaze to free up these players to win the positioning war, especially on defense. I theorize this team could do really well after a few skills, and enough money to fill all the positional and a couple reserves.

    Fanatics
    Fluff:
    Enthralled and enslaved by their vices, Fanatics make up the most basic troop of the Slannesh team. They are more nimble than the average blood bowl lineman; however, their absorption with excess does not lend itself to self preservation. Fanatics rarely wear any kind of armor, and as such are easy targets for the more brutal opponents they may face.

    Creation:
    Sidestep seemed a Slannesh trait to me, so I built off that. I like where the Fanatics are at for now, but if they turn out to be too powerful, I will scale them back, possibly giving them a different skill such as shadowing. As it stands now, the Coach must choose well with sidestep, as it is the only upside to the Fanatics.

    Demonetts
    Fluff:
    The backbone of the Slannesh team, these are your go-to players. They are fast, agile, and mobile, making them perfect for ball handling, assisting, or setting up a defensive screen.

    Creation:
    I debated for awhile what skills and even what stats to give these girls. I decided to go with the team being high Agility over strength in the end. Had it been the other way, Demonetts would have been 7337 with Dodge and Sidestep for 80k. I also had them as a discount at one point, however, I am happy with their current state.

    Succubus
    Fluff:
    As an agent of lust, these demons feel right at home on a Slannesh team. Their power to captivate through their beauty makes many Slannesh Coaches quit… and become Fanatics!

    Creations:
    This is the player that went through the most amount of change. Again, I had to decide between Strength vs. Agility for the team. The Succubus were almost 7337. Also, at one point they had 7247 with Mutation access on a normal roll, Foul A, Hypnotic Gaze and dodge at 100k cost. This seemed a bit over the top so I toned them down a bit, though I expect dodge to be the first skill choice on them anyway. I am considering dropping Foul Appearance(Think Startling Appearance ;)) as well, though their cost would be bargain bin. Finally, I am considering dropping Mutation access on Double as well. It just remains to be seen.

    Fiend of Slannesh
    Fluff:
    These bizarre Chimeras bring some much needed strength to the Slannesh team. Slannesh Coaches were apprehensive of the strange creatures till they saw what they were capable of doing to the opposition. Now you would be hard pressed to find a Coach who doesn’t use one!

    Creation:
    I took a look at the model, and the skills wrote themselves. They made me think of a beast who would not let his prey go, thus they hound their victims using Shadowing. The model itself also has horns, a scorpion like tail(could have been Prehensile Tail or Stab), Very Long Legs, and Sprint/Sure Feet would not have been out of place. There stats were the only thing I had to consider. Due to their size, I wanted to make them strength 4. However, the team was built to be an agility team, and Str 4 and Agi 4 don’t belong on the same team. I ended up with 7338, the higher Armor and Strength access showing their power over the weaker side of the team. If the team seems like it needs a significant boost, I would put Horns on these guys at no cost, making them the only discount player on the team.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  14. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I think Side Step is too powerful to have on that many players as a starting skill. It works fine for Snotlings cause they are ST1.
     
  15. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    I was kind of worried about that. Do you think shadowing or another skill would be a better choice? Another option would be 6338 for 50k, though it would be covering one of the major weaknesses of the team and keeping cheap fodder. That has the possibility of breaking the team. I think shadowing would be better, as it would keep with the fluff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  16. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Shadowing wouldn't be overly powerful.

    Then again they let Amazons have Dodge and Norse have Block and I consider those better then Sidestep so I don't know if I really have a problem with Sidestep to begin with... *Shrug*
     
  17. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    Wizards
    [​IMG]
    I really like the goblins for their obvious underdog inadequacies and their ridiculous superpowers that don't quite balance things out - and this team, I hope, goes even further in both directions. I designed them to cause coaches a big headache, because, like the Goblins, there's an inherent tension between three on-field objectives: preservation of horribly fragile players, hurting the enemy with extraordinary or underhand tactics, and actually paying attention to the small matter of the ball in play. Let's take a look!

    New skills
    Obviously the most eye-catching thing about this team is that it features two skills which aren't currently in the LRB. Well, not exactly - they're there in one form, but have to undergo a certain amount of tweaking to bring them from Inducements onto the field proper. Without further ado, then (text in red where it differs from the LRB5 description of the inducement):

    Fireball (Extraordinary): The player may cast a searing orb of explosive flame as a declared action. The player cannot perform this action while holding the ball, or blitz, pass, hand-off, block, or cast Lighting Bolt during the same turn. However, the player can move and dodge before taking this action, as long as the coach declares the whole action beforehand. Choose a target square, to the maximum range of a Long Bomb from the player. Roll one dice to hit each standing player (from either team) that is either in the target square or a square adjacent to it. If the 'to hit' roll is a 4 or more then the target is Knocked Down. If it is a 3 or less he manages to dodge the fireball’s blast. Make an Armour roll (and possible Injury as well) for any player that is Knocked Down as if they had been Knocked Down by a player with the Mighty Blow skill. If a player on the moving team is Knocked Down by a fireball, then the moving team does not suffer a turnover unless the player was carrying the ball at the time.

    Casualties caused by use of this skill do not result in SPP. Additionally, if a player declares the use of this skill while in the tackle zone of an opposing player, a special action is triggered. The opposing team coach can choose to make a block with any player that the player using Fireball is in the tackle zone of. All normal blocking rules, including turnovers and assists, apply. This special action must be resolved before the use of Fireball can proceed.

    Lightning Bolt (Extraordinary): The player may cast a crackling jolt of energy as a declared action. The player cannot perform this action while holding the ball, or blitz, pass, hand-off, block, or cast Fireball during the same turn. However, the player can move and dodge before taking this action, as long as the coach declares the whole action beforehand. Choose a target player, to the maximum range of a Long Pass from the player, and roll one dice. If the score is a 2 or higher, then he has been hit by the lightning bolt. If the roll is a 1 then he manages to dodge out of the way. A player hit by a lightning bolt is Knocked Down and must make an Armour roll (and possible Injury as well) as if hit by a player with the Mighty Blow skill.

    Casualties caused by use of this skill do not result in SPP. Additionally, if a player declares the use of this skill while in the tackle zone of an opposing player, a special action is triggered. The opposing team coach can choose to make a block with any player that the player using Lightning Bolt is in the tackle zone of. All normal blocking rules, including turnovers and assists, apply. This special action must be resolved before the use of Lightning Bolt can proceed.


    Spite Familiar
    I turned to a Warhammer Wiki to do some surface-level research, hoping to find some appropriate creature to serve as familiars. These guys seemed to fit the bill pretty well: "inherently magical creatures who attach themselves to particular areas or people". That "malicious streak" is shown by a certain - je nais sais quois - Sneakiness, and indeed Git-liness. They're perhaps more creatures of the forest than obvious aides to a human agenda, but this proved a useful justification for some of the Star Player selections.

    Obviously, they're an attempt to create a fragile player of the Goblin, Halfling or Snotling mould, and borrowing from all three of these creatures has resulted in a player that is going to die in droves, but is still somehow under-priced due to having something of a skill soup. I couldn't quite lose anything though - the combination of ST 1, AV 6 and Stunty means both defensive skills are important.

    Sneaky Git is an attempt to balance out player losses received on both sides - with fireballs flying and the Apprentices almost certain to be picking up Wrestle, opponents who do get sent to ground are now ripe for gang fouling - less risky thanks to SG, but at the expense of being able to cover the field.

    Apprentices
    You don't have to be a fan of Goethe, Dukas or Mickey Mouse to enjoy the idea of hapless and under-equipped apprentices being roped into a really bad career choice on the whim of their arcane paymasters.. a higher strength and basic ball skills are signs of the vigour of youth - AV 7 is the sign of being forced to play in their college's traditional robes instead of a proper set of armour!

    Well, the team is supposed to be totally unsuited to the rigours of the sport, after all. So even the positionals had to be fairly worthless. These guys were originally also going to get access to the Passing skills instead of the Wizards, but I made the change, partially for fluff reasons (Wizards being able to zip the ball around the field with the aid of magic) but mostly because I wanted you to be conflicted if you were to actually try picking the ball up. Do I use one of my mobile, dodgy players, my passer, or the guy with some semblance of strength and the vital safe hands?

    Wizards

    God knows whether the idea of bringing these guys onto the field works in a balance sense or not. There are things that might correct for over- or under-poweredness - such as a Leader-like stipulation that only one Wizard may cast anything at all per turn, or that each Wizard could choose to use BOTH skills in one turn! The range for both skills could also be tweaked.

    To increase the odds of hearing that satisfying Wizard neck-snap, I had to pick between Stunty and Decay (both, I felt, would be too much). Neither was a perfect thematic fit, but Decay at least conveys a good sense of the extreme age and general decrepitude of a Wizard, while not introducing any weird kinks (like Stunty might) of Wizards weaving through a scrum of tackle zones to pull off a Strip-Ball blitz.

    Conclusion
    So. I liked the thread, but figured my (non-existent) knowledge of the Warhammer world would prove too great a barrier to contribute. But the idea sat at the back of my mind, and inspiration eventually struck, and so here we are. I'm fully aware that I might be about to be told that Wizard teams have been debated to death already. But, all the same, I'm quite pleased with how these guys turned out, both in terms of concept and how uniquely they'd play.

    It might not look it, but they do actually have reasonable options for how you develop the team, should SPP start to trickle in and players live long enough to make use of it. A natural first skill for Spites would be diving tackle, to help with their Titchy-related defensive problems. But equally viable are Catch and Diving Catch, should you choose to make a Wizard a Pass-er (to slowly gain SPP) or give him Hail Mary Pass. For those of limited imagination, the Wiz can always pick up Leader.

    Similarly, the costing of the team should mean there are a few interesting decisions to be made about building for TV1000. I had to inflate Apprentice prices and discount Spites (very modestly in both cases) to achieve a good balance, but buying a (vital!) apothecary, all your 'positionals' and 5 Spites will cost you 750k - leaving 250k with which to deliberate over the amount of re-rolls, replacements, cheerleaders (bookish, pencil-skirted librarians :)) and fan factor to invest in.

    I'm fond of the idea that like Goblin coaches, who sometimes keep their TV artificially low to afford bribe inducements, Wizard coaches might feel the need to hold off on buying extra Spites in order to regularly afford a wandering apothecary :D
     
  18. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Blood Bowl is set in the Blood Bowl world not the Warhammer World, so don't worry about that. That is also why I'm against any Bretonnian or Space Marine teams.

    I think you can build the current Chaos and Chaos Pact teams to cover the different Chaos gods as well.
     
  19. spworldtour

    spworldtour New Member

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    Shoot, I tried to move this from another thread but ended up deleting the whole thing, so here's the repost.

    I had 2 ideas

    The first is the mixed race turn:
    0-2 Dwarf Linemen
    0-2 Human Linemen
    0-2 Amazon Linewomen
    0-2 Norse Linemen
    0-2 High Elf Linemen
    0-2 Halflings
    0-2 Skaven Linemen
    0-2 Beastmen
    0-1 Ogre

    The second idea is the slime team. (Yeah, yeah, I know slimes shouldn't be smart enough to play bloodbowl, but they're the only group I can think of that would have a good reason to have this much jump up)

    G 50K 0-16 Green Slime 4 3 3 9 Jump Up
    GP 90K 0-2 Red Slime 6 3 3 9 Jump Up, Sure Hands
    GS 80K 0-4 Blue Slime 5 3 3 9 Jump Up, Wrestle
    GS 110K 0-2 Black Slime 4 4 2 9 Jump Up, Diving Tackle
    S 110K 0-1 Prismatic Slime 4 5 1 9 Loner, Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, Jump Up
     
  20. beefburger

    beefburger Member

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    Has anyone ever seen a workable heroes of valor roster.

    I would be really interested to see what anyone comes up with.

    Would it mirror the Chaos pact team, with Heroic players who couldn't foul