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Rules Build a New Team

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by S1nner, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. maxcarrion

    maxcarrion Active Member

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    Hmm, a Hordes of Chaos team. Tricky. So lets start with Marauders, Chaos Warriors and Ogre’s

    Chaos Warriors – these could be opened up a bit more with “Marks” It’d be quite possible to make marks cost 20k each and have 1 purchasable per CW, hell give them to marauders too, some of them are worth less for Marauders but you don’t have to buy them :p

    Khorne – Frenzy, piling on, -1AV (Khorne bezerker)
    Nurgle – Stand Firm, Block -1AG, -2MA (big fat warrior)
    Tzeentch - +2MA, -1AV (the warrior is mounted on a low altitude flying disk)
    Slannesh – Claw, -1MA (a nice big keeper of secrets style crab claw)
    Maybe even Nuffle – Pro (Nuffle is defiantly a god of chaos :p)

    Almost everything else in the Hordes of Chaos lists are of animal intelligence (Warhounds, Forsaken, Chaos Spawn) or are big guys, cavalry, artillery or heroes. So anything I threw out on these would break some of the important guidelines (negative traits for non big-guys) or just have no flavour but I think the marks idea could open up the team nicely.
     
  2. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    Hordes of Chaos

    Giving the players ‘Marks’ certainly does add a bit of variety. I would suggest that Slannesh loses out a bit though compared to the others. Perhaps just Claw and no –1M for the Slannesh mark?

    Also, to balance things out a bit more, perhaps players with Marks should suffer from Animosity to teammates with a mark from a different Chaos God. Although they wouldn’t suffer from it when making passes/hand-offs to teammates with no allegiance to a particular Chaos God.

    Thoughts?

    N.
     
  3. ETU1

    ETU1 New Member

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    I like the idea of "marks", but I think those are a little overpowered, particularly for only 20k. Not all skills are created equal. That's why no player starts with St4 and block. At 31 SPP, those Khornate warriors would all be Bl, MB, Claw, Frenzy & PO! And I don't even want to think about CW's who can move as fast as wood elf catchers and war dancers.

    Instead, maybe something like:

    Khorne: Juggernaught or Juggernaught, Frenzy & Blood Lust (with any team mate fulfilling the role of thralls)
    Nurgle: As per Nurgle warriors
    Tzeentch: maybe Leap or Hypnotic Gaze (less effective on ag 3), even dodge(?)
    Slannesh: DP or, again, Hypnotic Gaze

    Very fluffy, maybe not as fun and still needing a bit more work.
     
  4. maxcarrion

    maxcarrion Active Member

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    I was trying to keep as much as possible to the initial guidelines, although looking through them again giving Marks of Nurgle or Slannesh to a CW would break important guidelines (Block or Claw on ST4) as would giving 3+ CW marks of Khorne (no more than 2 st4+ frenzy players), so some tweaks should be done. Each of the marks I worked out to be worth 2 points on the cost formula, strictly speaking on a CW they’re only worth 10k and those that have -1AV are only 1 point (10k) on a Marauder too. So

    Khorne – stays as is, negative traits on normal players aren’t allowed and exchanging piling on for juggernaut just creates a crowd pushing monster in place of the armour breaking monster.
    Nurgle – Block has to go but we can use Foul appearance in its place and keep it competitive. This is also one of the skills the Nurgle warriors of the Nurgle team has so that works quite well.
    Tzeentch – Doesn’t break the rules and I’m not sure a 7 4 3 8 no skills player for 120k is any worse or even as good as a 8 3 4 7 block, dodge, leap player for 120k.
    Slaneesh – This one was the hardest for me as Slaneesh flavour and BB don’t really mesh too well, I defiantly don’t want to use Hypnotic Gaze as to me that screams vampire and since claw is out, maybe tentacles, still needs the -1MA to balance the points but I think it’s a useable and quite slaneesh-esque mutation.
     
  5. jlmb

    jlmb New Member

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    Why not have Blood Bowl Marked Chaos Warriors, instead of skills to indicate their God? These would affect their basic statline instead. So Slanneesh would be faster, Nurgle tougher etc, then apply skill lists they can gain rather then start with? That's sort of how WFB and 40k do it with their Marks, and it's relatively effective.
     
  6. Pottsy

    Pottsy Member

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    Am the only who thinks that the cost formula is more complicated than necessary?
    I've rewrote to make it easier to follow and removed skills no longer in Blood Bowl. The actual formula hasn't been changed.

    Points for Stats
    Work out the statline for your player and add up the points from the table below.
    [​IMG]
    Add an additional point if both ST and AG are greater than 3

    Points for Skills
    Add 2 points for each beneficial skill. The following skills are exceptions

    1 point for Frenzy, Horns, Leap (if AG is less than 3), Pass (AG 3 or less), Right Stuff, Stunty, Thick Skull, Throw TeamMate, Very Long Legs
    3 points for Big Hand, Block, Claw, Dauntless, Foul Appearance, Guard, Leader, Multiple Block, Regeneration, Stand Firm, Strong Arm, Tentacles, Titchy
    1 addition point if the player has both Block and Dodge.
    -1 point for Always Hungry
    -3 points for Really Stupid, Take Root
    -2 points for all other negative skills

    Converting Points to Gold
    Players must be at least worth 3 points.
    For players worth 10 points or less: 10,000 for each point.
    For players worth 11 or more: 50,000 + 5,000 for each point.
     
  7. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    So how would a Snotling be built using these guidelines?

    MV 5 = 4
    Str 1 = -6
    Agi 3 = 0
    Av 5 = -4

    Dodge = 2
    Right Stuff = 1
    Side Step = 2
    Stunty = 1
    Titchy = 3

    Total 3 = 30k

    Where did I mess up?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  8. Pottsy

    Pottsy Member

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    You didn't mess up. The rules were put together for 3rd edition. So the Ogre teams weren't kicking around then. The guy thats posted them online seems to have valued Titchy a little too high.

    There is a comparison between the calculated and actual costs on the same site. GW Teams Revised Cost Formula/Discounting. Looking at the comparisons, some players were still about about 10k off of the actual price.

    It's not meant to be perfect, just a guideline for making new teams. Some balancing is still needed afterwards.
     
  9. maxcarrion

    maxcarrion Active Member

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    Yeah, I’ve generally gone for as close to the guideline as possible for the teams I’ve posted as it’s a good place to start and then you can adjust for balance after play testing the team, but the possibility for discounting positions is mentioned throughout the article, as are a listing of rules breaches in canon teams.
     
  10. Rusty

    Rusty Active Member

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    I've thought about doing this before. One 'race' I wanted to see was a team from Albion, which was featured in the Dark Shadows campaign for Warhammer about 10 years ago. I suppose if you wanted to separate the team from the Warhammer universe you could just call them a Druid team or a Celtic team or something like that? I have to say I prefer the name Albion though. The overall direction of the team is intended to be like the Human team: able to mix up passing and running, but without specialising in either. But I wanted them to have a bit more of a theme than just generic humans, and I wanted to stay as close to the fluff as is practical. So the team would be something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Tribesman: I started from the Human lineman, but I imagined them being much more primitive and so having no metal armour, which would let them move faster; hence lower AV, higher MA. This makes them the joint fastest 'lineman' unit along with that of the Skaven and Wood Elves. Actually it has the same statline as the Skaven lineman but without access to Mutation on doubles. Lastly I'm not happy with the name Tribesman, but I don't know what else is better; Savage maybe. Caveman sounds too primitive, and Ritualist isn't really right. I suppose I could just call them Druid, although that's moving further away from the fluff.

    Hunter: A Human-esque team needs catchers, so again I worked off the Human version. I imagined these to have the same strength as the Tribesman, which seems to fit in with the more primitive lifestyle, but balanced that a bit by taking away Dodge. As it happened, this made them more expensive than Human catchers using the formulae given earlier in the thread. Again I don't like the name, since Hunter sounds more like a Blitzer than a Catcher, but I couldn't think of anything else at all. The only thing I could think to do is to call the 'lineman' Hunter and the 'catcher' Gatherer.

    Fenbeast: The Blitzer type of player, Fenbeasts (summoned spirits of humans that have died in the bogs and marshes) are faster, tougher and stronger than humans in the fluff, and can regenerate. This would seem a tad over the top, so I decided that the strength and regeneration, both given by elemental powers, were the most important and put those in first. After that, I felt I couldn't have ST4 and MA7+, nor Regeneration and AV9, so that sorted most of the statline out. Their lower AG comes from their low Initiative in Warhammer; they are technically undead, after all. Finally I thought 0-4 might be too much, so they're only 0-2. On the other hand, the team is a bit AV-light.

    Truthsayer: This is the actual 'druid' kind of creature in the fluff, but since I wanted to stick within the existing rules rather than adding extra rules/skills/spells, I thought a Thrower would be the best bet. They're magic users in the fluff, so they wouldn't feel comfortable in much armour, hence a lower AV than Human throwers, but they're the head of their own communities since they're the only ones with any real knowledge, hence the Leader skill. This is probably the dodgiest thing in the whole team since it's essentially a free re-roll for a starting team, but they're only 0-1 and AV7 so they might not last too long. It's also the reason I've priced the team re-rolls at 70k. Ultimately though, I wouldn't be too bothered if they lost Leader and became 0-2 instead.

    Giant: Like an Ogre but bigger, so actually more like a Treeman I suppose, but I used the Ogre as a starting point anyway. Obviously Throw Team-mate and Strong Arm are wasted in this team, like TTM for the Ogre in the Human team, but, well, would anyone else like to see Giants in a Halfling team, or in a Snotling team? Or is that just me? Anyway, I was surprised at how low the price for the Giant ended up working out at. Unless I can't count, of course.

    Anyway, that's the team and the reasoning behind it. A TV1000 roster could include Giant, Truthsayer, 2 Fenbeats, 2 Hunters, 5 Tribesmen and 2 team re-rolls (for three total if you count Leader); 11 players, no Apoth or extras.

    Thoughts? :)
     
  11. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    The Giant is too good, he is only 20k more than a Treeman and loses all the disadvantages the Treeman has.

    He gets an extra 2 movement in exchange for 20k and 1 less AV. That removes the standing up problems and Bonehead is far less of a problem than Take Root.

    If you compare him to the ST6 star players:

    Grashnak 6628 for 310k
    Headsplitter 6638 for 340k
    Icepelt 5618 for 330k
    Morg 66310 for 430K
    Ramtut 5619 for 380K
    Ripper 4619 for 270k

    He has the same stats as Ripper but can develop to get extra skills (Rippers skills aren't exactly great and Bonehead isn't a massive problem), though costs 130k less! Extreme players stats such as ST6 kind of break the pricing formula.

    The other stars on the whole have extra weaknesses like AV8, Ramtut has one extra movement, Break Tackle and Wrestle but costs 240k more etc.

    Oh and the reason Ogre's on Human teams have Throw Team Mate is that they can hire Puggy Baconbreath. Rest of the players seem all right price wise at first glance
     
  12. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    I really like the team, Rusty. It has a lot of character. The Fenbeasts at a glance look like the team's star players, but there's nothing shabby about the Hunters either (although conceptually they seem like they'd have Dodge instead of Catch).

    I agree with Coach that the Giants seem a mite too good - perhaps move 3, or Really Stupid, or armour 8 (to reflect the 'bigger they are, the harder they fall' maxim) could be effective remedies.

    I do wonder about that free Leader re-roll, too. Seems to me the Leader skill should probably be an exception to the general 20k valuation of skills. Perhaps Pro instead would be keeping with the theme?
     
  13. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    You could call the tribesmen for cultists. Think Realy stupid is good for giants.
     
  14. Snotty

    Snotty Member

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    I liked the wizard team suggestion, as well as the trolls

    I dont really have the time, or knowledge of the rule math, to work out the specifics TV and fairness for team creation but I would like to share what I though up anyway.

    Coach mentioned that BB was in a separate universe to Warhammer (FB)and W40K. I always thought (or like to think), that it is set in Warhammer Present Day, contempary Warhammer if you will. Steampunk-esque maybe.

    Saying this, I remember an early FB army list of the Nippon. Therefor a Samurai team would be really cool. It would be based around the regular human team stats but..

    Having no ogre (unless it was a cool samurai ogre!)
    which would be replaced by 2 sumo blockers. with a St 4, Stand Firm, and Grab. countered with maybe low mv, ag, and av

    4 Samurai Blitzers, same as human blitzers + might blow, contered by price.

    2-4 Ninja Catchers: skills would be leap, shadowing, dodge and amybe a 4th. Countered by low st, av and being very expensive.

    Zen Thrower (maybe warrior monk or ronin). Regular thrower with sure hands and nerves of steel.

    and whole load of regular linemen

    If it could be done without causeing sterotypical cliches, then i think this team would rock.

    the other teams ive considered to a lesser extent:

    *A brenationan team got poo-pooed, but you could have a team of knights, High armor, squire catchers. ect.

    *the 2nd ed Star player companion in their "did you know" anecdotes, had one about a full werewolf team. and the inclusion of other weres, like were-bears and were-tigers. So you could have

    a were wolf team, with everyone having the same starting stats (could be interesting),

    different breeds of Werewolf. and also other single were creature teams.

    a were mix team, with w-bear blockers, w-tigers catchers, ect.

    *I was inspired at looking at the "gaspez arts" website, at a pygmy team. It be quite interesting to have a stunty team with a real offencive edge.

    * Warhammer have recently put out a Beastmen army list. You could the various beastmen form there as different postions, having a full beastmen team.

    *Old school warhammer creatures were the; Firmir. A team with everyone having pehensive tail...maybe

    * a mutant thug team: human linemen stats but only having access to mutation skills. also 2ed rules had mutations as random dice rolls, It could be fun having a team skills assigned randomly.

    *a new world native team (native american/indian). Again the cliches

    and finally when they re did the dungeon bowl rules, i like their method of making mix race teams.

    Sorry the more i typed, the more I started thinking about it. Ill stop now. but as an afterthought, has anyone played a full snotling team?
     
  15. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Once did a full snotling team with 32 players. All I ever did with it was fouling and fouling and fouling.
     
  16. Rusty

    Rusty Active Member

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    I finally got around to having another go at the Albion team:

    [​IMG]

    The Giant got reworked a lot, making him closer to the Treeman, but with Really Stupid instead of Take Root, lower AV and no TTM/Strong Arm since he has nothing to throw. I also took a couple of John McGuirk's suggestions, making the Leader cost an extra 10k due to Leader and giving the Hunters Dodge instead of Catch.
     
  17. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    Looks good, Rusty.

    The 32-man Snotling team is an amusing idea, so how about this addition: 50k Bribes, plus the ability to use them at the start of a drive. Why would you want to use them at the start of a drive? Because you're going to be trying to sneak more than 11 of the tiny, indistinct players in your massive squad onto the pitch!

    The Bribe roll is a 1d6 as usual. A successful Bribe will let you set up with 1-5 extra players, the precise number being declared before the roll is made. For every player above the first attempting to sneak on, the success threshold of the Bribe increases by 1. So you can start a drive with 12 players on a 2+, 13 players on a 3+, and so on, up to five extra players on a 6.

    Naturally, sooner or later everyone will cotton on to your underhanded tactics... all players illegally smuggled onto the pitch are considered to have the Secret Weapon skill until the start of the next drive.
     
  18. smashngrab

    smashngrab New Member

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    Here is my idea. Its a Gitz team based on the evil gitz from the fluff.

    0-2 Blitzers 6338 wrestle, Diving Tackle, animosity 100k SG
    0-8 Linemen 6337 Dirty Player, animosity 50k G
    0-8 Git Gobos 6237 *normal goblin skills + animosity
    0-1 Git Troll *normal troll stats + animosity

    reroll 70k
    0-1 Apoth

    The team gets some wrestle onto the starting roster that no other team has (but 1 probs would if it were not such a new skill). It also serves a tacticle purpose for getting players down to foul. Fouling fits well with being evil, hence dirty player. The price or reroll with animosity and low numbers of positionals helps make the team more of a challange.

    I would consider dropping the apoth and adding a "fixer" for a free bribe every game. But the apoth is more in keeping with the rest of BB game.

    What do you guys think?
     
  19. Thanatos

    Thanatos Member

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    Proposed Werewolf Team.

    Simple enough, mostly using the existing Werewolves in the game.
    0-16 Lycans: 7337 50k
    0-2 Southern Werewolves 8338 Frenzy 90k
    0-2 Northern Werewolves 6428 Frenzy 110k
    0-1 Yhetee 5518 Loner, Frenzy, Claw, Wild Animal 130k

    On a double, they may take Regeneration or Claw but no other Mutation.
     
  20. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    I like the Wolf team but I'm pretty sure the Yheti is a form of troll...