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Rules Build a New Team

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by S1nner, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. Notorious

    Notorious New Member

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    Good point, I'd probaly drop normal passing access on the Dryads and given them normal access to General instead, which would make sense given the role they'll likely play.
     
  2. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I'd agree, it brings them closer to Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs, where Strength 4 is coupled with general and strength skill access.
     
  3. Magnificzero

    Magnificzero New Member

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    Here is my try at a lycanthrope team!

    Lycanthrope

    Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV Skills Normal Double
    0-16 Slaves 40 000 6 3 3 7 G ASP
    0-6 Lycans 70 000 6 3 3 7 Diving Tackle, Strip Ball GP AS
    0-4 Werewolf 90 000 7 3 3 8 Regen, Frenzy GA SP
    0-1 Alpha Wolf 130 000 6 5 2 9 Bloodlust, No Hands, Regen, Juggernaut SA GP
    Rerolls : 70K


    Please comment and add any suggestion if you have any :)

    Thanks
     
  4. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    bloodlust like a vampire?
     
  5. Magnificzero

    Magnificzero New Member

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    Sorry, I have skipped the descriptive part of the team because my lunch break was cut short :) Here is a description of the team and players so that the abilities are better understood

    Lycanthrope

    Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV Skills Normal Double
    0-16 Slaves 40 000 6 3 3 7 G ASP
    0-6 Lycans 70 000 6 3 3 7 Diving Tackle, Strip Ball GP AS
    0-4 Werewolf 90 000 7 3 3 8 Regen, Frenzy GA SP
    0-1 Alpha Wolf 130 000 6 5 2 9 Bloodlust, No Hands, Regen, Juggernaut SA GP
    Rerolls : 70K


    Team Overrall : Since the dawn of time, mytic creatures have roamed these lands. These great powers finally came to a clash in the arena, were blood bowl fans can witness the prowess and abilities of each. Little did the blood bowl world know, but a certain species decided to train their abilities together...before showing the whole world there dominance in this violent and deadly sport.

    Slaves : These peasants from over the world have been captured to be used as both feeding stock for the lycanthropes and for dummies on the field. Nothing too much will be said, because it is only a matter of time before they are the meal of victory.

    Lycans : The lycans are children of the original werewolves, have the blood of the wolves within their veins...they know how to stalk the prey and never let it leave it's side. Once it does find it's prey, the lycans attack ruthlessly making the victim fend off while dropping his attention and hopefully the ball.

    Werewolves : Completely taken in by the curse of the moon, these beast crave the flesh of anything they can get there hands on. Having the ability to heal themselves, they fear nothing. Once they pounce on an enemy, the only way to make them stop is to fall down and hope they won't try the killing blow.

    Alpha Wolf : The original affected of lycanthropy had the ability to transform into a monstrous wolf, 5 times more massive than a regular wolf...and 5 times more deadly. Once transformed, these beast become blood thirsty, and any blood will do when the craving becomes too much to bear. Being a giant sized wolf, makes it impossible for it to interact with the ball. They might not have the ball skills, but the Alpha compensates with immense strength and a unstoppable charge.

    This sums up the team :) Tell me what you think :)
     
  6. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I like the theme of the team and for the most part the roster seems reasonable and rounded.

    The only concerns I have are the Lycans and the Alpha wolf.

    With the lycans I'm not sure I'd see diving tackle and strip ball as a reasonable skill set for a fresh player, it gives the team a very powerful defense in comparison to any other.

    I'm also not sure I see why they have passing access, it doesn't seem to fit with their starting skills and certainly I'd be opposed to any team having 6 players with passing access. I can see that the team doesn't otherwise have passing access, but if its a priority I'd maybe reduce the positional to 0-4 and create a 0-2 passing/runner role.

    On that note I also don't think any team should have 0-6 in a positional player, 4 is plenty.

    For the Alpha wolf, he's filling your big guy role, yet he doesn't have much of a drawback - No hands doesn't seem the right skill to give as a negative trait. He ought to have Loner, like other big guys do. Blood lust serves him in the same way Wild Animal, Really Stupid etc do for others so that's okay.

    I'm also never keen on MV6 AV9 in a big guy - I know the Kroxigor is pretty fast but most aren't. It does fit the team to have him fast, but 120k is too cheap if he is going to have that combination in my view.

    I'd also suggest he shouldn't have normal access to general skills, in line with other big guys.
     
  7. Magnificzero

    Magnificzero New Member

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    Thank you for the feedback!

    You are right about the big guy and the Lycans. I tried out the combination and the lycans are very powerfull as defensive players. After the try out and your suggestion here is what I come too

    [​IMG]

    I think this balances more the team. The big guy keeps the same speed, yet dropping in armor and being a loner due to his frenzied behavior. Also having access to strength skills only on a normal.

    The Lycan's gain the leap ability to serve as both offensive and defensive units, making them very versatile. ( I don't know I put passing on there, I wanted to give them agility access like the werewolves )
     
  8. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I'm liking the revised line up more - I think leap is going to be a little tough for an AG3 player, but it is characterful and helps balance them.
     
  9. Magnificzero

    Magnificzero New Member

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    Here is another team I thought of, of course I haven't tried it yet to play test but here is Version 1 :)

    [​IMG]

    Team Overrall : The powerfull dragons of this world have the ability to change shapes and become human. Some of these magical beings fell in love and had children with these humans. To the suprise, the children that were born from this union were not human at all, but very tough and big draconic creatures that are known now as the dragonborn. With a thick hide and strong draconinc features, they have decided to join the game of blood bowl to let the world witness the draconic might behind their heritage.

    Warriors : The warriors of the dragonborns are the base of the team. Able to both hold there own against any team in strength and agilty, yet they enjoy the protection of their tough hide to take a few beatings.

    Paladins : The paladins are a lot like warriors, but they have endured training to which nothing scare them. No matter the amount of opponents surrounding him, the paladin will keep focused on the victory. The honor of the dragonborn is always on the line!

    Scouts : Trained in the ways of shadowing and tracking. These dragonborns prefer the lightness of regular clothing to the heavy armors worn by there fellow players. They scout the field in search of a place were they can be most of use, either my shadowing an opponent, or staying clear of the opposition for a clean catch.

    Godslayers : These are the enforcers of the team, using raw strength to beat down the opposition and keeping those sneaky opponents from leaving the brawl.

    With a few feedbacks and my try out, I will post a version 2 ( because revisions are always needed ) :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  10. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    For sure the soldiers are either too powerful or two cheap

    Compare

    Dwarf lineman
    4 3 2 9 block, tackle, thick skull SG PA
    70k

    Orc lineman
    5 3 3 9 G SPA
    50k

    So they are paying 10k for thick skull and strength access on a normal roll. That is far too little. Personally I think you should just take the strength access away then they are 10k more than an orc lineman, but have thick skull. That might put you in trouble though vs other bash teams as you need good access to guard as you have mostly str 3.

    The alternative might be to move them more towards dwarf linemen and give them agi 2 and keep the str access.

    The paladins should be 0-2 the same as all the other throwers.

    Mv 6 and shadowing seems a bit pointless to me for the scouts.

    Starting with tackle makes the godslayers very powerful players. Almost all str 4 players start with no skills at all. Need to think about that one a bit more.
     
  11. Magnificzero

    Magnificzero New Member

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    Thank you for your comment Etheric,

    I totally agree with you on the Soldier. Taking off the access to Strength on a normal roll will balance that character a lot more.

    The paladins I always thought them as a positional player rather than a straigth thrower.

    I don't think that the scout is useless with those stats. If you take a look at the dark elf assasin, 6337 stab,shadowing compared to scout 6338 thick skull, shadowing, catch. Even if not the most usefull skill in the world, It fits the character.

    The godslayers are far from being the strongest players in the world if you count that he as the same stats as the dwarfs linesman but with 1 str more and the same skills as them except for block and all that for 40K more.

    Thanks again for the help :)
     
  12. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Let's try this again. Two teams I've had rattling around in my head for awhile and an attempt to balance my old Hobgoblins team.

    [​IMG]

    Possibly this needs the Beastmen dropped to 0-4 as they can bench all their Stunties when fully built, also wasn't to sure on the costing of the Centigors, they're effectively big guys on a blitz but do have a nega trait to represent their total drunkeness along with frenzy so they might be ok.

    [​IMG]

    This team might be to strong, they are all av7 without block or dodge, but fend is a solid pitch control skill. It also has three exceptional positionals in the Elves but I like them being there for flavour reasons.

    [​IMG]

    I think most of the team was fine as was but I'd agree the Wolfriders were ridiculous before. So they've lost two movement and an agi but I've given them claws to increase the teams edge and make them more blitzers than the silly mad scorers they used to be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  13. Raveen

    Raveen Member

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    I'm personally not keen on mounted units as BB players. You don't see Warhorses or Cold Ones (assuming they still exist :) ) on the human and dark elf rosters after all.
     
  14. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Way I saw it Hobgoblins haven't much things in Warhammer going for them lorewise other than the Sneaky Gits, that Orcs and Goblins hate them, and the infamous wolf rider mercenaries of the steppes so I figured it would give them some uniqueness by having them so desperate to win a match they illegally bring a couple of the wolves onto the pitch in the same way a Dwarf would use a Death Roller or a Goblin would use a chainsaw.
     
  15. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    A team full of cheerleaders and only one player with leap?!

    I guess she must be the one that goes at the top of the pyramid :)

    I like the new Hobgoblin team and agree that the Death-Roller sets a reasonable precedent for that kind of 'mounted' player (provided they are a Secret Weapon). I think that, being so expensive, coaches would have to carefully consider whether really wanted both; 240ks worth of team value for players that might be forced off the pitch by the end of the first half is risky after all.
     
  16. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Heh good point :D

    I was a bit stuck with what to give the Head Cheerleaders, whether to give her passing access etc. but the same stat line with skills fend, leap and very long legs could definitely work.
     
  17. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    The Beastmen look broken to me, they're basically Underworld, but with more players who have access to Strength skills on a normal roll, and they all start with Horns. Also, the players are way too cheap to me, considering they all start with an abundance of useful skills, access to plenty of stuff for their skill-ups and everyone aside from the Linepeople have great AV.

    Not sure what to do to "fix" it, though...
     
  18. The Grand Usurper

    The Grand Usurper New Member

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    I am admittedly quite new to Blood Bowl, I've known of it for quite a while but only recently have started playing the Cyanide video game. As such please be conscious that I'll most likely lack the nuanced view of older players. None the less I've toyed with penning a new team, which I have yet to find a reasonable name/lore to hook it to.
    Working Name: Cosmic Horrors

    Inspiration/Goal
    I envision this team as a lovecraftian nightmare birthed into Blood Bowl outfits. While this is certainly a major component of the imagery and direction of Warhammer, in particularly the Nergul, already I didn't feel squicky enough. To this end the sheer body horror of tentacles is the hook the team is based around. Taking this further I envisioned the team as exceedingly slow and bashy but where other bashy teams rely on raw strength or traditional bash oriented skills this one would rely on frustrating the plans of the opposing team through tentacles and extra arms.

    How They Look
    This team's players could be described in total as writhing masses of tentacles with no obvious humanoid features. Despite this they seem to hold themselves into vaguely humanoid shapes (despite a lack of traditional arms and legs) with the occasional pieces of padding or armor being tightly clinched to their amorphous bodies. The heads in true Cthulhu fashion would look Cephalopod-ian with evil eyes. The writhing mass of tentacles seems to begin from somewhere near the head.

    Player Stats
    (0-16) Lesser Horror (Linemen) MV: 4 Str: 3 Agil: 3 AV: 8
    Skills: Tentacles, Extra Arm Availability: MG/SP (Calculated Cost: 80k)

    (0-4) Greater Horror (Blockers) MV: 4 Str: 4 Agil: 2 AV: 8
    Skills: Tentacles, Tackle Availability: MGS/A (Calculated Cost: 110k)

    (0-2) Writhers (Catcher/Runners) MV: 5 Str: 3 Agil: 3 AV: 8
    Skills: Tentacles, Extra Arm Availability: MAP/GS (Calculated Cost: 90k)

    (0-1) Unspeakable Horror (Big Guy) MV: 4 Str: 5 Agil: 2 AV: 9
    Skills: Tentacles, Foul Appearance, Leader, Wild Animal, No Hands, Loner
    Skill Availability: GS/MA (Calculated Cost: 140k)

    My Issues and Concerns
    In particular I have three major concerns with my heavy use of tentacles:
    1. So many, even though most are strength 3, players with tentacles will prove far too powerful. Furthermore if it is too powerful it would only be exaggerated vs the lower strength teams more reliant on the running game and dodges/stunty.
    2. Will this team be too frustrating to play against to ever reasonably expect an opponent to put up with it. Even if it isn't overly powerful the tentacles are forcing them to roll a ton of dice in most games and even when poorly played will force opposing players to be somewhat flexible with their game plan.
    3. Will the constant dice rolling and tentacle related checks stretch the game out perilously long.
    In addition to the above I'm very concerned with the Big Guy I wanted to include. As many Big Guy's become largely a roadblock I think there is extra danger in including tentacles, let alone foul appearance, and leader. I consoled myself in the realization that he wasn't radically different from the Beast of Nurgle. I really like Leader on the Big Guy as it seems to fit lore wise with the vision in my head, unfortunately it is an extremely optimal place to have it and certainly closes off some development from players (why take leader anywhere else on your team). The No hands was included for lore to express the way the tentacles are far more concerned with bodily harm and causing evil than actually getting the ball.

    The Guidelines
    Despite being older I found the Guidelines very useful. Unfortunately I had a few issues with them.
    1. I can't help but wonder if Extra Arm shouldn't be costed at 3 pts for determining cost (Big Hand was).
    2. I wasn't sure if it was allowed or reasonable to have fewer available of a cheaper player than a more expensive player. In particular I made only 2 Writhers available (90k) vs 4 Greater Horrors (110k), though both are more expensive than the linemen (80k).
    3. I'm not certain how to consider the effect of the Big Guy on team balance. Earlier on it states "also do not include Big Guy allies as part of a team when creating a new team" It makes it hard how to guess whether or not including a Big Guy will do to the balance, I guess thats part of the polish of play-testing. Similarly I wasn't sure about the cost on the Big Guy nor about how many pts worth of skills was reasonable.
    4. Finally I understand, or think I understand, the discussion of predicted cost versus actual or discounted costs with relation to official teams. However I have no idea how this relates to creating new teams.

    I loved the Will-O-Wisp Idea
    On an aside from the wall of text above, I liked the idea behind the Will-O-Wisp. Unfortunately it seems like it could be quite a pain to balance. How do you make something mobile enough to use Hypnotic Gaze routinely without it being far too useful for breaking cages etc. Similarly how do you capture the feel/idea of a little phantom light while making it fragile enough to control its utility.
     
  19. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    I think you're right, maybe dropping the Beastmen to 0-4, bumping the Centigors cost up a bit and moving mutations access to doubles on all the players would do it?
     
  20. jkdtn1

    jkdtn1 New Member

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    I've been thinking about some other 'human nation' teams for a while. How about these?

    Cathayan Team

    0-16 Linemen 50,000 6 3 3 8 G ASP
    0-4 Catchers 90,000 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Catch, Diving Catch GA SP
    0-2 Throwers 60,000 6 3 3 7 Sure Hands, Pass GP AS
    0-4 Guards 90,000 6 3 3 8 Block, Guard GS AP
    0-1 Ogre 140,000 5 5 2 9 Loner, Bonehead, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull
    Re-Rolls 50,000
    Team design: Like humans, but slightly different. More emphasis on discipline and drill.



    Arabyan Team

    0-16 Runners 50,000 7 3 3 7 GA SP
    0-2 Hashashin 80,000 7 2 4 7 Shadowing, Stab GA SP
    0-2 Dervishes 90,000 7 3 3 7 Frenzy, Jump Up, Side Step GA SP
    0-2 Janissaries 90,000 7 3 3 8 Block GAS P
    0-1 Djinn 140,000 7 5 2 8 Loner, Break Tackle, Juggernaut, No Hands S GAP
    Re-Rolls 60,000
    Team design: A faster version of human, more emphasis on speed and agility (but not to the level of Elves). Plus quite an interesting Big Guy in the form of a big blue guy who turns into a whirlwind when moving around the pitch...


    Bretonnian Team
    MV ST AG AV
    0-16 Peasants 30,000 6 3 2 7 G ASP
    0-4 Yeomen 70,000 6 3 3 8 Wrestle G ASP
    0-2 Blitzers 110,000 7 3 3 8 Block, Sure Feet GS AP
    0-2 Paladins 120,000 6 3 3 9 Block, Dauntless, Stand Firm GS AP
    Re-Rolls 60,000
    Team design: Peasants are rubbish. Fair enough at least they fill space on the pitch. Yeoman to keep the rabble away from the stars. Blitzers are the glory hungry pseudo-knights errant, and Paladins are the honorable knightly blockers who love to test their mettle against the beasts of the pitch.


    What do you guys think, they seems reasonably balanced?