1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Human Catcher Conundrum

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Smiler6310, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. Smiler6310

    Smiler6310 Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    UK
    Country Flag:
    Hi,

    I'm after some advise from those more experianced than I please. My Human team the "Tilean-Sea Titans" is currently running; 1 Ogre, 4 Blitzers (one with Guard, another with Dodge), 2 Catchers (one with +AG and the other with Wrestle), 5 Lineman and 3 Rerolls.

    The plan is to skill one catcher as a sweeper and the other as a ball hawk/runner. The ball hawk's first skill was +Ag (awesome). He has now rolled a double for his second skill and I'm stuck on what to pick.

    I've sort of narrowed it down to the following;

    - Leader (extra RR always handy)
    - Nerves of Steel (Useful but limited as Humans aren't really a pass/catch team)
    - Guard (Uber useful but I don't really want him where he can get hit)
    - Pass (Maybe but same as NoS as he doesn't really have an outlet)
    - Dump Off (Same as pass)
    - Mighty Blow (Not really with St2 and I've blitzers for hitting people!)

    So I'm stuck but leaning towards Leader. My only concern is that this guy could be something special and Leader is sort-of the standard min-maxing choice.

    Any advice greatly appreciated as always. Thank you!
    Chris
     
  2. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

    Messages:
    3,401
    Country Flag:
    If you want Leader then get a thrower.

    Sure hands + Leader for 10K less than a lineman with pass thrown in for free.

    Doubles for catcher is guard. However as you say he doesn't want to be stuck in contact.

    If you want him to blitz the ballcarrier he wants wrestle , tackle , dauntless and either strip ball or leap so there is no room for guard and no other double fits into the build.

    If you want him to pick up the ball in TZ's and get rid of it then Nos, Pass or Dump Off are all options but it is not how I would build a catcher.

    Leader is a waste on a +AG catcher
     
  3. JimmyFantastic

    JimmyFantastic Member

    Messages:
    241
    Country Flag:
    Just give him Block SS then Leap etc if he lives that long. Hope for more stats.
     
  4. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Country Flag:
    id be tempted to take guard... super mobile guards can really turn games. yeah he'll get hit more but he'll be twice as useful.. just don't put him in contact without a good reason.
     
  5. Killing Time

    Killing Time New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Country Flag:
    I actually don't think NoS would be a bad idea on an AG4 ball handler.
    It gives you options in traffic that you wouldn't even contemplate on a regular human team. Could really give some surprises and headaches to your opponents.
    But you might then want to think about getting a thrower to make the most out of him.

    Guard is the other obvious option, but does pretty much ensure he's got to be stuck in a scrum to get the most out of him, and that's not a great place to be for an S2 AV7 player.
     
  6. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,210
    Steam Username:
    Dreamy
    Cyanide Username:
    Dreamy
    Country Flag:
    Yea, if you have an AG 4 catcher you can make your humans into a passy team. Accurate on a thrower and quick passes are 2+, which catcher receives on a 2+, add nerves of steel and it's 2+ even when marked.
     
  7. PaloLV

    PaloLV Member

    Messages:
    178
    Cyanide Username:
    PaloLV
    Country Flag:
    NoS. Then Block and Pass Block at L5. Or SS at L5 but an Agi 4 Pass Block defender with NoS and Catch is really good as both an offensive and defensive player. He could make interceptions about half the time.
     
  8. JimmyFantastic

    JimmyFantastic Member

    Messages:
    241
    Country Flag:
    Don't take any crappy skills on him just because they are doubles.
     
    Fischypants likes this.
  9. Mephiston

    Mephiston Member

    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Kristianstad
    Country Flag:
    Even if I personally would have probably gotten Guard or Mighty Blow... since I basicly build all my catchers to be quick mini-blitzers, I can see the benefits of getting Nerves of Steel for a Ag 4 Catcher though.

    Because that would make it very useful in a scenario where you, for example, might have knocked the ball free, but due to that the ballcarrier was in a cage when it happend it's now positioned in a pretty bad place for you. So with a Ag4 + NoS catcher you have a better chance of digging that ball out. Granted, if you failed it would leave your catcher in a bad spot... but hey... no gut's no glory and all... no? XD
     
  10. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Country Flag:
    You have 4 guys that get mb as normal (plus ogre starts with it) so not sure its worth giving to a str 2 guy tbh.. nerves of steel is very nice occasionally but I still say you'll get a lot more use out of guard.
     
  11. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,210
    Steam Username:
    Dreamy
    Cyanide Username:
    Dreamy
    Country Flag:
    Just remember NOS makes no difference when picking up the ball, only catching (the bounce or a pass) or passing it out after the pickup.
     
  12. Mephiston

    Mephiston Member

    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Kristianstad
    Country Flag:
    You have to consider the way I use my Catchers though. At the start they will be the ones scoring most of the TD's... but once a catcher get's block they will start scoring less TD's, and once they reach their second skill it goes down even more. The job I build them for is as helping hands with assists where I need it, do the blitzing needed if my Blitzers (or other possitions) are unavailable, chase the ball if neccessay, etc. Basicly their role becomes of sort that of a Blitzer. The only time a lvl 3+ catcher will score TD's for me is if there are no other players available to score that TD, or if I really need to garantee that I do score for what ever reason.

    Lets asume I get no doubles or stat increases... then my natural progression for a Human Catcher is: Block, Dauntless, Tackle. After that it would be Pro and Jump Up in random order (basicly what I feel like taking at the time), and for the 6th skill it would probably be Side Step, but it can varie.

    So I build them for fighting, as I do with all possitions on the Human team (and basicly all possitions in all other teams I like to play as well)... except for my main, and possibly secondary, Thrower. Yes, catchers are not optimal at fighting, clearly... But I don't mind, because I find the benefit of having two MA 8 mini-blitzers on the field to be really good.

    If I do get a double on a Catcher then Guard will be the skill I get... since assisting the other players on the team is their main job that I want them to do. But, if I where to then get lucky enough to get a second double then I will get Mighty Blow. Because it makes it easier to get opponents stunned or knocked off the field, and it will give the catchers a bit more SPP from the additional Cas they will earn thanks to it. And that will always help after all.

    Once a player has been knocked down... a ST2 Catcher with Mighty Blow is just as likely to kill you, as a ST5 Troll with Mighty Blow is after all...


    Oh... right... and looking at the old rules we used to play back in the day it was the same. No idea where I have goten that it included picking up the ball as well. I guess I have just thought "anything with the ball" or something.

    But... since this is the case... that it is only passing and catching... then I think I would actually not take it at all then for an AG4 Catcher, or any AG Catcher... which is actually the case as it is now, NoS is not a skill I ever use after all. I much rather take other skills.
     
  13. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Location:
    Kent, Uk
    Cyanide Username:
    crimsonsun
    Country Flag:
    I made this mistaken assumption myself in the past, having always played slow blocking sides its never something I actually looked into in any detail.
     
  14. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Two catcher builds I like... wrestle dauntless strip ball, block sidestep diving tackle.... whether they are worth having and how many is a question I avoid now by not playing humans :p
     
  15. Mephiston

    Mephiston Member

    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Kristianstad
    Country Flag:
    The reason I never really noticed, even though I do play teams, and play in a way, that tends to do a lot with the ball... is because even though I like the skill, I never actually used it during the last 19 years... as far as I can remember atleast. :rolleyes:

    For me the "perfect" amount of Catchers on field has always been 2... both in offensive and defensive play.
     
  16. Everblue

    Everblue Active Member

    Messages:
    1,033
    Country Flag:
    I used to have a guard catcher on my human team. He got mercilessly targeted by the opposing killer in every game, then he died.
     
  17. Mephiston

    Mephiston Member

    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Kristianstad
    Country Flag:
    Catchers are going to be one of the main targets no matter how you build them though... and guard players are also always going to be targets as well.

    So it's not like that has changed anything really that you put Guard on your Catcher. You still have one Guard more on your team for the duration of having that character though.

    Plus... Catchers are pretty cheap, and they are really easy to skill up. Sure, it's not certain that you will get a double again to get Guard for the replacement.... but chances are that eventually the replacement catcher dies or is injured enough for you to kick it as well... at which point you get another catcher which again is easy to skill up, and has a chance of geting Guard... Lather, rinse, repeat.

    So since this is something which tends to happend to Catchers anyway, no matter the build... why not take guard on a double then?
     
  18. Everblue

    Everblue Active Member

    Messages:
    1,033
    Country Flag:
    I did take it. I was sad when he died.

    :(
     
  19. CariadocThorne

    CariadocThorne Member

    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Kent, England
    Country Flag:
    Nerves of steel is always good for a catcher if you use them to score. Even if you never make a pass, you are going to want to hand-off to them sometimes, and marking a catcher just to see him effortlessly catch a hand-off then dodge away to score is incredibly frustrating. It will often lead to your opponent using multiple players to mark him, for extra tackle zones to dodge through, which means less players covering the rest of your team.

    The catcher might never score another TD, but the threat is enough to force tough decisions and make life easier for the rest of your team.