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CCV Final match discussion (spoiler)

Discussion in 'Crunch Cup' started by danton, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    So, for anyone who has watched the replay, or just wants to know what happened, this is my brief report of the match. Feel free to add your own analysis if you like.

    Coachman bought a re-roll and a goblin before the match, so I bought another catcher in order to have 14 players, while not giving away any inducements (40K difference in TV). He won the toss and chose to receive first, which in hindsight was probably a mistake by him, especially seeing as it started to rain straight away! I can understand why he would choose to receive first all the same, given the way that overtime works in the game.

    Things got even better for me, when a Perfect Defense let me position aggressively in order to chase down my deep kick on the left flank and things went from bad to worse for coachman when he tried to pick the ball up with his thrower before throwing any blocks on the LOS, resulting in a very early turnover. That let me push through strongly on the left wing, stunning a blitzer next to the sideline and getting two blitzers deep into his half in contact with an orc lino next to the ball. Coachman got some blocks off and managed to blitz one of my marking blitzers down with his thrower, but failed to pick up again! This let me get more players into the fray and after blitzing his thrower away from the ball, I was left with a pick-up and GFI for the score and didn't need a re-roll for either! 1-0

    Next kick was not as deep and was a high one, so the orc thrower got under it, but failed to catch it. He did manage to pick it up though, only to fail a GFI trying to get into a midfield cage! This meant that a big brawl soon started for the ball with neither team able to make any headway until the end of the half. The orcs did manage a couple of casualties though, giving a lineman a serious concussion and an MNG to a blitzer, which my Apo failed to do anything about (I was concerned with going down numbers in the second half, but probably should not have used the Apo then anyway). The humans managed to KO 3 orcs, but they all came back for the second half. Half time score 1-0 to the Mob.

    The Orcs then launched a deep kick of their own and also got a Perfect Defense. This made the blocks on the LOS a bit trickier, but the humans still managed to knock quite a few orcs over and had a decent position with the agile thrower managing to pick the ball up and remain deep. The Orcs pushed through on their right flank with a blitzer and tried to construct a solid line on the LOS, but a gap was made next turn for the humans to send two catchers and a blitzer through to the humans right flank in the Orcs' half, while the thrower moved up into throwing range.

    The Orcs were able to stun the rookie catcher on the blitz and moved as many greenskins over to mark as they could, but next turn the humans were still able to knock several orcs down and throw the ball to the agile catcher, who had dodged one square into a pocket near the sideline. The Orcs had the possibility of blitzing him, but it required at least three 3+ dodges and a couple of GFIs and that option was soon discarded when an orc lino had to re-roll a GFI getting over to mark a player. The orcs did manage to knock some of the humans over though and set up a decent marking scheme that meant that the humans still had to take some risks to score. After some thought I opted for a 1 die block with a lineman that had Wrestle, needing only a push, which is what I got. From then I only needed one 2+ dodge for the catcher to score with a re-roll in hand. 2-0!

    The next kick was a Blitz for the humans, but I wasn't able to do anything with it, because my catcher rolled snake eyes on the GFI to mark the orc blitzer I was going to blitz. In addition to that the ball rolled over the side and was given to the orc thrower. The Orcs needed to score very fast though in order to have a chance and any hope of that happening soon faded as I managed to contain them at the halfway line due to them not throwing receivers forward in an attempt to pass for the score. No real progress was made, although an Orc blitzer was nearly killed and ended up with a Niggle after the Apo's intervention, while the rookie human catcher gave himself an MNG trying to dodge to safety. Final score 2-0 to the Mob.

    So, I think the first couple of turns put coachman on the back foot and he never really recovered after that. I haven't seen the stats, but I probably had slightly better rolls than him in general. I do think he shouldn't have tried to pick up the ball before throwing any blocks at the start and that did make his situation worse all the same. After that his caging game never made any progress and was not very hard to contain. I was surprised that he didn't take more risks too in an attempt to score, given the situation, but I suppose he may have been more worried about going 2-0 down in the first half.

    Anyway, would love to hear thoughts from other people who watched the replay.
     
  2. bintz

    bintz Active Member

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    I also didn't understand the early pickup on first turn. The orc thrower has sure hands so the reroll can be "wasted" on a block if needs be and almost all orcs have block so it is unlikely that a block turnover will occur on that first turn.

    I think it was a bad decision and more so with the rain. Coachman was really unlucky with his pickups though and had he managed to pick the ball up in the first 2-3 turns, it would have been different.

    Honestly, when I watched the replay and saw the rain, I felt directly it would be very hard for the orcs... but I was expecting Jason to take more risks too. I guess his quest wasn't that important afterall :p



    I looked at the stats and Coachman is at an awful -21.92 on D6, mainly due to failed pickups, stupid and gfi rolls whereas humans were on 0.43.

    2D6 was kind to both coaches but Danton takes the edge again with 18.16 against Coachman's 8.16...

    Blocks dices aren't really interesting.
     
  3. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Well, if I understand the epic correctly, Jason already won the fleece - this last "battle" is about defending himself against the press :D
     
  4. coachman

    coachman Well-Known Member

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    That night I learned that if you cannot pick up the ball you cannot score. I made 1 pick up roll out of 9.

    Picking up first was a risk but I'd not noticed it was raining so I opted to protect the ball against a faster team before risking anything else. I would have tried blocking first if I'd seen it was raining.

    It would have made no difference though as I proceded to fail the pick up again on turn 2 and the perfect D meant he started with good position. Naturally his blitzer and everyone else on MMM picked up the ball with ease.

    Second drive, snake eyes to GFI into the cage was unlucky but I may have recovered... apart from I couldn't pick up the ball again to continue the drive.

    This was my first time with an orc team and I'll definately play orcs again, it was almost too easy. Such a good team. Makes me wonder if Dwarfs are this good as I've never played them either.
     

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  5. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Dwarfs are that good but very very one sided.
     
  6. Doover

    Doover Member

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    One sided or do you mean boring? :confused:


    Think there has to be a reason why so many people play orcs. But never really played them myself ´cause there where always to many other orc coaches so I dind´t liked to choose them.
     
  7. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    First of all, congratulations to danton for winning the cup. I hope You repeat the impressive feat in OCC. :D

    As for the final, coachman's pick-up rolls determined the flow of the match. You can't score without the ball, and Jason's team only got it once... to lose it seconds later on a snake-eyed GFI. :skull: This luck made a somewhat anti-climactic clash in which orcs were struggling to catch-up to their opponents for 14 of 16 turns. coachman still deserves praise for not giving up and fighting to the end. :powdodge:

    That said, failing to notice the rainy weather was a mistake that, if avoided, could have changed the situation a lot, so putting the result on luck alone would not be fair.

    I really hope You guys both join CC VI, as it would benefit from Your presence a lot.
     
  8. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    I watched the replay when I wrote up the Play of the day report for the CCC, so I was watching it with slightly different eyes than other viewers. I did have a good laugh though at how many times the Orcs failed to pick up the ball! Incredibly bad luck. As has already been echoed by other coaches above, Coachman’s big mistakes were not blocking on LOS and repositioning players before trying to pick the ball. Other than that I don’t think there was a lot he could do given his incredibly hopeless ball handling. I wondered that his D6 “luck” must be terrible and bintz has confirmed it!

    Danton did play a very solid game though. I especially like how he went about scoring the 2nd TD. Really well thought out plays and positioning.

    Well done to both players though. Once again, Coachman narrowly misses out on claiming the cup. And Danton has shown us why he is in div 1 of OCC. Its just a shame that both coaches won’t be participating in CCVI.

    Its great also to see a Human team win the cup. So far the following races have been CC winners:
    CCI – Lizardmen
    CCII – Dwarf
    CCIII – Dark Elf
    CCIV – Undead
    CCV – Human
     
  9. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I thought he was in real trouble the turn before the 2nd TD. I thought he got a bit lucky on the blocks that turn 3/3 of 50% blocks, but looking at what was actually being attempted I think a push would have done most of the time. That one I did not see at all, so well done there. I really thought he had overextended and was in trouble.

    I would have been so mad though after the first TD. when you are 0/4 on picking up the ball then your opponent makes it first time. But yeah with 30% 1s there is not much you can do even as orcs.
     
  10. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I did commit hard for the second TD and some bad dice at the wrong moment, could have potentially left me in a bad position I suppose, although I didn't take any particularly big risks. I figured that with the 1-0 lead it was worth going for the TD aggressively, as the Orcs would not be able to recover from going 2-0 down. Also their Perfect Defense on the kick-off limited my options a bit.

    The Orcs' ball handling in the first half was indeed atrocious, although the rain didn't do them any favours. Given how hard the conditions were for ball handling though, it made it all the more important to make contingency moves before trying to pick the ball up, in order to limit my options for stealing it.
     
  11. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Well that one was the play of the day in the CCC. Any sort of turnover before you moved your thrower would have put you in a very bad position for sure with you looking at a likely 2d block on your thrower who would have been isolated.

    As you said there was nothing really dangerous there. Pushes rather than knockdowns on a few of the blocks would have made the screen less secure, but I am not sure if the orcs could then have got to the ball or not, probably would have required something a bit risky. A :skull::bothdown: needing a push would have been a pain/burnt the reroll, but yeah it was a lot of 90% moves or better which is a lot better than I thought was possible at the start of the turn.
     
  12. Da Boss

    Da Boss Member

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    Where can i go to watch replay?
     
  13. SorroW

    SorroW Member

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    Easiest way is to Download the BBmanager. And then use that to Import the save file to your BB and then start bloodBowl and watch the replay.

    And as far as I know that is the only way to watch it.

    /SorroW