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CCXII format?

Discussion in 'Crunch Cup' started by Viajero, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    That's a little harsh, Smurf. I agree that an ethos of 'everyone's in it to win it' is something that works really well for the CC, but I do worry about the implications of that in the face of 15+ week seasons, especially if drop-outs start to distort the divisions. Without reserves to step in, certain coaches would unavoidably be handed an advantage through free wins. With play-off spots at a premium that might cause serious unrest, leading to further drop-outs. More play-off spots could make that less of an issue, but would again increase the length of the season...

    All of which is hypothetical; I'm not suggesting it's doomsday for the CC or that the Mayans were a year off just yet. :D In any case, we'll have a better idea of how the current format's working come the end of CCXI. And I don't believe Gallows has even finalised that format as yet (or have I missed an important post somewhere?).
     
  2. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Why the rush:confused: Why must it be fast paced and over in less than 10 weeks:confused: What Nev said only adds one week to the tournament - is that an unreasonable prolonging of a CC:confused: And actually I dont care that several people above have already noticed it (what is the point of that as an argument:confused:). If the CC change format, so that it is no longer a tournament where all that enters have a shot at the title, well then it is just a tournament like so many others and not interesting:powdodge:
     
  3. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    No rush at all, I said as much in my opening post. As I ve also said I am happy with both formats. I think an 80 team league will be much more fun with a tier or divisional format for the arguments I ve given though, but whatever we decide will probably be fine, as usual. That is all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  4. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

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    Muchly agreed!
     
  5. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    1 week more is fine... 2 ok... but much longer League length might bring in more AV9 teams because survival gets more value... makes playing fragile AV7 teams more frustrating... because once your team is badly beaten taking it on for X more weeks is boring and leads to drop outs. So more play off weeks is good.... more first round weeks I think might get boring.
     
  6. Citizen Nev

    Citizen Nev Member

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    In the best way possible.

    Beat them into submission until only one survives. In the end there can be only one!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    So, no love for double elimination then... :(
     
  8. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    It would work within the CC premise of all having a shot at the title:powdodge:
     
  9. Citizen Nev

    Citizen Nev Member

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    It reminds me of the Crunched Cup
     
  10. Phunbaba

    Phunbaba Active Member

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    If the worry is this thing getting too long, why not make the divisions smaller? One possibility would be divisions of 6 with top two going to finals would give 30+2 wild cards with 84 players. Though I personaly don't mind the current turn around time even if it goes up a week due to a larger play off.
     
  11. Thorlacius

    Thorlacius Member

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    Can´t we just start with the playoffs! ??? like in the old UEFA cup stile :D
     
  12. Dionysian

    Dionysian Well-Known Member

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    As one of the nebulously welcome newer players I don't see the problem with top two going through to playoffs even from groups of 10.

    That way making the playoffs is a meaningful accomplishment; far from guaranteed even for the better players. And making the playoffs should be meaningful, should it not? Something to be earned rather than an entitlement? Being able to look at your division before it starts and *know* you're going to be in the playoffs before you even play a game seems kinda boring.

    I don't see a problem with expansion in the current format either. CC is attractive because it's unique. Making it OCC jr or UKBBL mkII is an underwhelming goal. More variety in formats is a good thing.

    Mid-season dropouts shouldn't be a problem if punishment is harsh. When signing up people know they are committing to an x-game season even if 11 players die in 1st game and they go 0-0-x. (And if a lot of coaches get suspended/banned from future cups the arguments about too many entrants become moot anyway).
     
  13. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    @Dio, very strict limit to play off spots often leads to very dull seasons, as half the coaches wont have anything to play for very fast and that is a recipe for dropouts galore.

    Much better to have a bigger playoff as that gives more to fight for, for longer and limit the dropouts:powdodge:
     
  14. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Why not "10 divisions of 8, sorted by TV, top 3 go through to playoffs, and the two best 4th places points-wise in all groups"

    3/8 go on, as compared to 4/10, pretty similar. Also two weeks shorter.

    Also, 32 can go on to the Crunched cup, so pretty much everyone that wants to play a playoff can do so (at least one round)
     
  15. Dionysian

    Dionysian Well-Known Member

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    I certainly see the argument for extending beyond a single qualification place, but 2 seems plenty for 8-10 team divisions. If dropouts are given bans (barring exceptional circumstances) then they shouldn't be a problem - or at least only a problem for one season.

    I have hardline attitudes on several things like dropouts, using exploits, disrespecting your opponents time by not bothering to reply to fixtures threads until a couple of days before the deadline, etc. These positions aren't widespread and I can understand the desire for inclusivity in a niche community. But my stance is borne from years of experience at various games/sports played at levels from local to international. Things work best and are more fun when rules are enforced strictly and a sense of fair competition prevails. Inclusivity is good, catering to people who make games less fun for everyone else is bad. I would argue that the people who lose interest after a couple of losses and drop out fall into the latter category and aren't coaches you should be interested in catering to anyway.

    My ideal competition would have minimal rules, very strict enforcement of those rules, and postseason for 10-20% of entrants. Everyone signing up would be aware they are signing up for the full season come what may and are expected to play their best in all games. If they look like coming up short of a playoff spot they're still playing for personal pride, team glory and the love of the game - not to mention respecting the opponent enough to turn up and try. Ultimately this should lead to more fun games as everyone involved knows what is expected of them and will have a good attitude as those who are only good sports when they're winning will slowly be weeded out. Every game is both competitive and fun for the people involved as both coaches are trying their best to win but they're also playing for the love of the game and not solely epeen.

    As an additional counterpoint to your argument I'd note the correlation between disappointed expectations and tendency towards bitterness. Reduced postseason qualification reduces the expectation that one will make it. 20% qualification feels like an achievement when you make it; 50% qualification can feel more like a failure when you don't.

    Having said all that, this is y'alls' party so if you want a 6 mth league season with 90% qualification to a quadruple elimination postseason I'll still play. Because I love the game.

    (While we disagree on ideal qualification % I'd like to reiterate that I wholeheartedly agree with you that CC format should remain as is instead of becoming a clone of an existing competition)
     
  16. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    In the CC the best success have been when more than just 2 teams get through from a division. We have had tourneys where only 2 teams was cut off - that let to extreme tension right up until the last matchday and for me I think that was the most fun CC. But Im fine with letting 4 of 10 or 8 getting into the playoffs, this still gives a lot of teams the possibility to clinch a play off spot right up to the last MD:powdodge:

    Im not mature enough to give a hoot when I have lost all chance of a play off spot, I will play my games mind you, but immediately go from focus on winning to focus on team development instead. Or see how many long bombs I can make or whatever I find funny:p
     
  17. 20phoenix

    20phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Times have changed V - the UKBBL has swelled to 120 teams and 4 tiers split into east and west with tier 3 and 4 on each side having two divs each.

    FWIW I think the 4 team qualification is fine. Still merit in getting there and keeps things interesting. Of course i'm playing with goblins so anything not bottom is my aim :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  18. Fallowheart

    Fallowheart Active Member

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    This is an interesting question... Thus far my experience has been limited to this competition (CCX), and my own small group of friends 6-8 players.

    1) I personally think a longer season is better.

    2) playoff spots should be meaningful.

    3) everyone should have a shot at 'the title'

    This may or may not be helpful... but it's what I think is important. Goooooo Commish!
     
  19. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    It's not just you mate.
     
  20. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    2 spots ? My the Crunched Cup will be extra big this time around... :D