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Changes for next season of the BC2

Discussion in 'Big Crunch 2' started by cjblackburn, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    The headline news is we are going to delay the start of next season of BC2 for a week till the 14th of July. So expect to see divisions on the 7th. This is so we can develop, implement and let you know changes designed to help new teams get straight into the league.

    Over the last few seasons we have seen a drop off in numbers and one of the main reasons given is the imminent release of BB3. There have been two themes when it comes to BB3 which have both led to the same problem of a very developed league with few new teams coming in. Coaches either drop out in the expectation of a new game in a few months time or keep playing their old team till it either dies or gets bloated (I was planning on Dark Elves for 4 seasons before BB3 dropped and it’s looking like double that now). This has made the gap between old and new get bigger and bigger especially as the release date keeps changing.

    To combat this we are looking at giving new teams a better start. Whilst we are willing to look at any reasonable ideas to do this, it is likely to involve new teams starting as custom teams with a rules pack. We want to avoid the obvious traps of 10 guard+MB dwarf teams, all Big Guys starting with blodge or 2 clawpomb and blodge Wolves with 9 Zombies whilst still allowing new teams a boost so they feel competitive.

    We also think it is also only fair to give you plenty of notice of this change if we decide to go ahead with it so the extra week allows us the chance to get this right (or as close to right as possible) and allows you time to make an informed decision.

    At the moment this change will only be for the BC2 and any future competitions are likely to be much more traditional but if it’s a roaring success you never know.

    Finally if anyone has any suggestions feel free to make them below but as a veteran of many a rules discussion please bear in mind that different people have different opinions and to please keep any discussion civil.
     
  2. Kindrin

    Kindrin Active Member

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    I recommend being restrictive when it comes to allowing skills on new teams:
    1) teams can spend 1100 gold on players and team/stadium enhancements only
    2) three normal skills for free (max one/player) on top of 1000TV buy
    3) 1000TV buy with 100 gold to buy skills (max one/player, no duplicate skills allowed)
     
  3. Frankolino

    Frankolino Well-Known Member

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    make regular new teams and allow them to play a handful of pre-season matches to develop?
    Maybe combined with a free Emergency Intensive Care if needed (whoever played clan league knows about it).
    Else, IMHO any kind of custom team building would need some tiering -- more gold and skills to low tier teams.
     
  4. Geryon

    Geryon Active Member

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    One option is to have a TV ceiling in tier 4. Anyone from tier 3 can't be moved down if their TV is too high.
    On the flip side also allow tier 4 coaches an option to decline promotion if they don't meet a minimum TV.

    This might mean some teams in the higher tiers staying put more so than usual but would allow lower TV teams to develop.
     
  5. Sephorin

    Sephorin Active Member

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    Can I make a new ogre team and get block on all the big guys?

    I'm only partially kidding. I think giving three or four ogres the coach's choice of one general skill to start with would be nice. I don't know if we're going to want to be making up individual rules for each team, though. I mean, I don't mind, but I think there is the potential for a lot of disagreement.

    Well, it's been imminent for quite some time now. :D I heard a rumor that it will get pushed back to early 2022. Wouldn't surprise me.
     
  6. Sephorin

    Sephorin Active Member

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    My ogres don't understand this team value stuff. Plus, ogres bloat like crazy. They don't think it's fair.

    On the other hand, I don't think I'd want to be a new team playing against a developed ogre team.
     
  7. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    This is not a rumour. Early Access on Steam it's expected September/October time, but final release not expected until February 2022 now.
     
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  8. Silfuin

    Silfuin Well-Known Member

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    In our small private league we handled this issue just by allowing a number of pre-season matches for new teams.
    We allowed to play in CCL these matches since we are RL friends and trust each other not to exploit playing multiple teams and cherrypicking the best.
    In bigger leagues this should be regulated and verified, but I think it could easily be done by requesting that the new team name be communicated before starting the pre-season matches, and then checking in goblin spy that the coach did indeed play only the allowed matches with that team.
     
  9. mamutas

    mamutas Super Moderator Moderator

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    I like that suggestion. Keep the bottom tier TV bound, don't allow teams with higher TV in it and let teams stay there until they are developed enough to move up, or when coach decides to do it on their own risk.
    I think it will be simpler, as you can keep new team rosters standard, instead of allowing custom skills which admins (like yourself) needs to individually check.
     
  10. Bloodsplatter

    Bloodsplatter Active Member

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    As a long time Ratmonger, I have brought a new TV 1000 skaven team directly into UKBLL to replace a drop out team... The result was W0 D1 L7...(drew with @Geryon) and not an awful load of fun, unless fun is watching the destruction of the team by cTV 1500 Khemri, Dwarves, Orcs etc. It took 3 seasons to make the team competitive, and in that time I had 13 players killed... For the teams relying on agility and speed the consequences of a poor or unlucky game are far more drastic than for you bashy fellows, as our lads are so much more fragile than yours (ever tried killing a tomb gaurdian) and the coach quickly finds himself in a position of having 8 players with all his star men targeted and killed... So the effect is likely that the few folk joining the league come in with the thumping crew from the start. Ogres bloat {@Sephorin) Seffi 'cos no-one can kill the [removed] off...
    I could suggest therefore that the races be treated differently, but I suppose giving skaven say TV 1000 with 3 skills would be more valuable than giving Khemri 3 skills??. Certainly elves of the passing variety need some degree of protection too, as a meeting with TV1500 Khemri would be inevitably toxic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2021
  11. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    A fairly standard res tourney build is 1100K + 6 normal skills. No more than 1 skill on a player.
    That means all teams can start with an apoth and will have a TV up to 1220.
    That should be enough against 1500 TV teams as agility teams will have dodge , a wiz and an extra apoth to keep the team alive and the bash/hybrid teams will have enough guard and 13 players to not get completely outbashed.
     
  12. Sephorin

    Sephorin Active Member

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    I have discussed your reasoning regarding ogre team bloat with my ogres. They said they disagree with you. When I asked them why they disagree, they said it's because you are wrong. :p

    I don't think the purpose of this discussion is to make the stunty teams competitive with "regular" teams, so my argument is not really pertinent. A stunty coach can take normal skills like everyone else, and if they don't like that, they can choose to play a non-stunty team.

    But if someone WANTED to give my ogres some extra general skills, I certainly wouldn't turn them down. I also wouldn't mind a blodging ogre with sidestep.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  13. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    On a stunty perspective the additional skills should be optional.
    As a Fling Coach I would prefer 0 normal skills to 6 normal skills as that is half a star player instead of 6 skills you don't really want.
    Double skills are wanted though.
    Also a TV of 900 with 100K in the bank is better than 1100 TV and 0 cash.
     
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  14. Sephorin

    Sephorin Active Member

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    Good points from the halfling perspective. Normal skills are counter productive.
     
  15. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    OK this is what we are going to allow rookie teams to do for next season.

    From season 26 new teams will be allowed to start as normal or as a custom team with a budget of up to 1.25 million to be spent on the starting roster (so Stunty teams can start below 1.25). If you start as a custom team you must start with an apothecary (if possible), at least 5 fan factor and at least 12 players to be purchased from the 1.25 million. In addition you will have the option to add up to 6 normal skills and one double skill. A single player may only take one skill and any skill may not be taken more than 4 times. A Stunty team (Goblins, Ogres of Halflings may swap 3 normal skills for 2 double skills). Custom teams may also take 100,000 in treasury.

    This is designed to give new teams enough durability to start against existing teams without unbalanced them. If you have any questions please post them here as I am out and about a lot in the next few days.
     
  16. Sephorin

    Sephorin Active Member

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    Just to clarify, if I build an ogre team, then I can take three normal skills and three doubles skills? Or three normal skills and two doubles skills?

    If the former, that would be tempting. But I probably love my ogres too much to replace them.
     
  17. Bloodsplatter

    Bloodsplatter Active Member

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    You didn't get where you are today by spouting [removed]...well said CJ.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2021
  18. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    So it’s 6 singles and a double. For Stunty that can also be 3 normals and 3 doubles or 5 doubles.
     
  19. Kjelstad

    Kjelstad Well-Known Member

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    I'm proud to say my ball of bloat never earned relegation! OK, we relegated to T3, but never 4! But my problem with the league wasn't the league, it was my own personal burnout.

    I only have one league left and I am going to quit that too if I can finish low enough.

    Isn't BB3 going to start with just a handful of suck teams? not a good reason to quit BB2.
     
  20. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    Going to postpone divisions for a day. Daughters year got sent home as too many people had Covid. She is fine (and -ve) but want to concentrate on her today.