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Crunch Cup - Rules discussions

Discussion in 'Crunch Cup' started by Nikolai II, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

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    goblin clarification is good, might be worth including the non-ending turn when running through the EZ while holding the ball.
     
  2. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm.. ok, should I start a poll on whether that is allowed or not, or just go with the rulebook?

    I know the rules are clear, but I also know that people could forget (and have forgotten) in the heat of the moment, and even if it is a jerk move it's in the line of stalling in general.
     
  3. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

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    as far as i know, this is just cyanidism, a lot of people don't even know that it's against CRP (which cyanide doesn't fully follow). If you allow gobs to throw bombs on jump up, may as well allow skipping the TD animation (since cyanide does not state it's a rule)
     
  4. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    "Run through endzone with ball" surfaced again.

    Should I make it official that we should use TT rules here, that this is illegal?
    (In honor of Kaz sacrifice)
    Should it also cover zig-zagging to gloat while running it in, and handoff in the endzone? (Both also illegal according to TT rules, but especially the former is definitely beyond what I'm comfortable with policing.)
     
  5. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    One suggestion I could have is "If you run the ball through your opponents endzone, this has to be the last action of your turn and end with a scoring attempt" - hearkening closer to LRB5 and Cyanide than TT/LRB6, but covering the most blatant abuses (the one where you keep stalling)
     
  6. St Cloud

    St Cloud Well-Known Member

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    The dicussion is being held in probably the wrong place at the moment...the match reporting thread...
     
  7. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    I know, and I'm fine with that too, but if you want your opinion to carry more weight you should put it in this thread.
     
  8. akirilus

    akirilus Well-Known Member

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    With regards to zigzaging before scoring (aka taunting), I was told people do it to pad their "rushing stat", which is mostly relevant in OCC - it has trophies for such things. I have never done it, but I also don't really care how I am scored on - if I am allowing an uncontested TD, it's gonna happen anyway, and if my opponent wants to make extra dodge/gfi rolls for the sake of vanity - why, go right ahead.

    With regards to running through the endzone, I have no problem making that illegal, although I always thought of it as a Cyanide "feature" (that I've never used), kind of like unpenalized dumo-off interceptions (should the opponent give me the ball back if they agi 4 intercept my dump-off on a 5, without being penalized for the TZ of the runner?) That one, imo, is much more damaging, albeit also a lot more rare.

    I don't care about handing off in the endzone, because the implication is the score has already happened. if my opponent wants to make an extra 2+ or 3+ (or 5+, if you are Ken handing off to a Saurus) - once again, be my guest.
     
  9. St Cloud

    St Cloud Well-Known Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danton [​IMG]
    Yeah, I understand that someone who plays a lot of TT might be offended by such a move, but this is not TT! Cyanide's auto-path system can sometimes take your ballcarrier through the endzone too, even though he doesn't have to go through it to get to his destination square, as it looks for the most direct route. Not saying that is what happened here, but just emphasising that I basically see it as part of the Cyanide game's "house rules".

    Props to Kaz for replaying the match, but I don't think I would have done that given those circumstances.


    This is totaly my stance on the matter. I have had the auto pathing happen to me as well. And I am pretty sure that i wouldn't have forfeited the game because of it.

    We will need to list all of the Cyanide "rule changes" explicitly to enforce them. And not in a general clause.
     
  10. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Lets be clear I did not demand a rematch. I did however shout out that it is cheating to run through the endzone, but we could blame it on Sigh-anide and play on or start over. We paused the game and Kaz read the rules and offered to replay. (I like that he offered that)

    My oppinion is that you play as close as possible to the rules and that is a damn easy rule to follow. The only rule I dont follow is the declaration of a pass before moving, as that sometimes fucks the game up and denies you the pass.

    If you want to risk a turnover by running with the ball in the endzone and pass, foul, blitz or handoff in the endzone then Im fine with that as long as you dont do it out of the endzone. So either you lose the ball or you score.

    The only way for a carrier out of the endzone with the ball is frenzy blocking as that action must be resolved before checking for a td.
     
  11. Kaz

    Kaz Active Member

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    Just to make sure, I'm fine with the process and result and don't want to come across like a little bitch. Well, maybe just a little bit of a bitch :D

    My initial thought was the same as danton's in that this version of the game is the version we play, bugs and all. However, there are bugs like the 12th man bug that we all adhere to so why not this one as well? The handoffs and the zig-zagging are fine and I don't think there are too many people who really care about those, but the running through the endzone can be treated as per the TT rules. I don't really mind either way, I just should have done more reading: this thread and LRB6.

    Thank you. You are cool.
     
  12. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

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    I don't think (or hope) anybody is blaming Smurf here either, as he is technically correct (independent of how vaguely the exploit is mentioned in the CC rules). It's much more appropriate to give props to Kaz for decding to stick with the CRP rules and being honorable in a situation that he probably could've played up to his advantage if he hadn't been such a fine gentleman ;)
     
  13. St Cloud

    St Cloud Well-Known Member

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    No it's not about blaming. Why should it? It's rules discussions and helping the mighty decide what is the best way forward.

    My feelings on this are that there are certain Cyanide "rule changes" that we accept because they are there (on TT we wouldn't) and if we don't accept others they should be mentioned expressis verbis in our tournament ruleset.

    And enforcing certain rules can be a pain because it can involve resetting & rescheduling.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  14. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I agree with Cloud. This isn't about blaming anyone, but rather it's about finding the most practical way to play this game for everyone. We all take time out of our lives to schedule games and often people have to play at times that are inconvenient for them, just to get the games played.

    Having to reset games due to crashes and disconnections is bad enough, but if you then start adding in resets due to bugs, or due to how the client interprets certain rules, then I think that's just going too far. The 12th man bug is easy to play around if it crops up, but I just don't see a need for policing things like this because they don't exactly match the TT interpretation. This is the pc game and the way it interprets the rules affects everyone equally.
     
  15. Dionysian

    Dionysian Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression we considered this an example of cyanide rules and it was accepted behaviour. I've only done it once (as I rarely play elves), but elf teams do it against me fairly frequently. I'm not aware of any other league that tries to police this. If we do so it should be made extremely explicit.
     
  16. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    If you allow travel through the endzone with the ball then tell me how you will stop a necro team from stalling without risking your players beeing surfed:confused:
     
  17. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

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    Agreeing that this should either become a very explicit rule or be considered legal in the future.
     
  18. Borke

    Borke Well-Known Member

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    I don't care either way whether running through the endzone with the ball without ending your turn is allowed or not, but I agree that if it is not allowed, then this should be stated very explicitly, because it is a common enough practice on Cyanide in general.
     
  19. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    I have played 435 Sigh-anide games and only seen it this once and did not know it was possible in Sigh-anide, if it is made a general rule then I think I will start a Fumbbl league instead or just play necro as they can exploit this against anybody without sidestep:powdodge:
     
  20. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    I don't really see how running through the end zone would help with stalling by such a huge amount on many occations.

    I assume you are trying to screen them into one half of the pitch to force a score, if that is the case all you need to do so that the endzone is covered is set up something like below:
    [​IMG]
    The yellow is TD line, Red X's are your players. Assumption is enemy team is on the right, if on left them mirror it. If you are threatened by both sides of a surf them you may need 1 extra player

    The odd X for your own player makes it impossible for the other team to surf your players from that side due to the first push will put the target on the TD line, the second can only knock them further along(Unless they can get a player around to block 1 square the otherside but that can also be covered by careful positioning the other side of the screen)

    This example is also assuming you are screening where you don't want a possibility of them getting passed without making risky dodges, if you don't mind them blitzing through (Which from what I read in the other thread sounded like was possible against you when this occured anyway) then you need half as many players.

    Also why only Necro team can abuse this I don't quite understand, any team with a frenzy player could surf due to this, hell dark elves would be the worst as the Witches start with frenzy, are AG4 and commonly will have 1 with leap to make setups like this impossible to stop the surf attempt. And unlike a Necro team a whole DE team is mobile and could risk dodging into a TZ or 2 to make the surf possible even without leaping.

    Maybe I could better understand if I was shown a situation where going through the TD zone means they can stall for one turn longer. The only situation I can think of is if the ball carrier is completely alone on one side of the pitch with few or no teammates at all, while the rest of the team is stuck on the otherside of the screen. But that seems like an unlikely situation.

    Sorry for the long post.