1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Crunch Cup XII Divisions

Discussion in 'Crunch Cup' started by Nikolai II, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    3rd iteration based on input:

    Roster bashyness:
    18*ST5+
    12*ST4
    8*ST AC
    --- Every line above this one are mutually exclusive as every ST5 or ST4 player has ST access. ---
    3*Mut AC N
    2*Mut AC D
    6*start MB
    4*start Claw
    6*start Blodge
    * not compatible w start Block or Dodge
    3*start Block
    2*start Dodge if ST3

    2*start Frenzy
    1*start Foul Appearance
    5*AV9+
    3*AV8
    2*Regen
    -2*AV6
    -3*AV5
    -2*Stunty
    -4*Bloodlust
    -3*Really Stupid
    -3*Take Root
    -2*Decay
    -2*Bonehead/Wild Animal
    -1*Loner

    Note: Removed the 11 player example rosters due to them feeling less "right."

    13 man roster
    Norse:
    18+24+16+4+30+10+9-2-1 = 108
    Khorne:
    18+48+4+18+5+24+10-2-1 = 124
    Orc:
    18+48+32+6+12+55+6+2-3-1 = 175
    Woodies:
    18+6+12+5-3-1 = 37
    Dark Elves:
    12+4+4+30 = 50
    High Elves:
    8+33 = 41
    Pro Elves:
    4+6 = 10
    Chaos:
    18+48+64+39+6+2+20+27-2-1 = 221
    Necro:
    24+16+6+4+10+27+22 = 109
    Human:
    18+32+6+12+5+30-2-1 = 100
    Ch. Dwarf:
    18+24+48+14+6+18+2+40+3-2-1 = 170
    Dwarf:
    88+33+4+45+12 = 182
    Lizardmen:
    18+72+6+35-12-2-1 = 116
    Ogres:
    108+36+30-25-10-12 = 127
    Goblins:
    36+12+10+4-22-6-2 = 32
    Skaven:
    18+16+26+6+6+2+9-2-1 = 80
    Undead:
    36+16+12+6+8+10+21+18 = 117
    Khemri:
    72+16+6+20+6+26-8 = 138
    Halflings:
    36+16-22-22-6 = 2
    Nurgle:
    18+48+32+36+2+6+5+25+18+10-3-10-1 = 192
    Uwd:
    18+16+39+6+4+5+6-12-3-1 = 82
    Amazon:
    32+24+18 = 74
    Vampires:
    72+18-24 = 66
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  2. Juriel

    Juriel Active Member

    Messages:
    1,186
    Country Flag:
    I like that. 10 for Pro Elf bashiness, hah.

    You better organize the team list alphabetically, though. :p
     
  3. Squall

    Squall Member

    Messages:
    577
    Country Flag:
    I would rather it was ordered in bash level :p
     
  4. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,438
    Location:
    Near Chicago, Illinois - in the United States of A
    Country Flag:
    i say order it by team skin color :p
     
  5. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    Alphabetically:

    Amazon: 74
    Chaos: 221
    Ch. Dwarf: 170
    Dark Elves: 50
    Dwarf: 182
    Goblins: 32
    Halflings: 2
    High Elves: 41
    Human: 100
    Khemri: 138
    Khorne: 124
    Lizardmen: 116
    Necro: 109
    Norse: 108
    Nurgle: 192
    Ogres: 127
    Orc: 175
    Pro Elves: 10
    Skaven: 80
    Undead: 117
    Underworld: 82
    Vampires: 66
    Woodies: 37

    Bashynessy:

    Halflings: 2
    Pro Elves: 10
    Goblins: 32
    Woodies: 37
    High Elves: 41
    Dark Elves: 50
    Vampires: 66
    Amazon: 74
    Skaven: 80
    Underworld: 82
    Human: 100
    Norse: 108
    Necro: 109
    Lizardmen: 116
    Undead: 117
    Khorne: 124
    Ogres: 127
    Khemri: 138
    Ch. Dwarf: 170
    Orc: 175
    Dwarf: 182
    Nurgle: 192
    Chaos: 221
     
  6. Citizen Nev

    Citizen Nev Member

    Messages:
    761
    Country Flag:
    How about just a + modifier for Chainsaw and Bombardier. The Fanatic is covered with the STR modifier.

    + 5 each maybe? Puts them between HE and DE which I think is fair
     
  7. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,210
    Steam Username:
    Dreamy
    Cyanide Username:
    Dreamy
    Country Flag:
    How about saying "this looks good enough to start with" and get around to showing what should be done with it?
     
  8. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    Point well taken.
     
  9. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,210
    Steam Username:
    Dreamy
    Cyanide Username:
    Dreamy
    Country Flag:
    Sorry, not meant as a slur against you.

    But it does feel "GW-balanced" already. ;)
     
  10. Altashheth

    Altashheth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Country Flag:
    A 2 for flings...... FOOD were one of the most violent in the Big Crunch.....Trees demand a x100 for the fling team.......I'm not helping am I?
     
  11. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

    Messages:
    1,827
    Country Flag:
    Fling trees aren't so bad, but that all-season-long Strongbranch contract? that was brutal!
     
  12. Altashheth

    Altashheth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Country Flag:
    From the looks of next season that contract will continue.... With the occasional temporary contract for Zara or Morg :)
     
  13. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    Np, didn't take it as a slur at all. I'm just agreeing that it was about time the ratings got used. I summed up the division averages yesterday, now I got test a basic algorithm to see if stuff actually looks better after crunching the teams through it.

    It's going to be pretty simple, mind you. I'm not a rocket surgeon ;)
     
  14. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    Ok, here's the results of my rather simple algorithm, old seedings listed first for comparison:

    Old seedings:
    Code:
    Member        Coach           Team                    Race    Seeding   Bashyness
    Division 1                
    Limdood       Limdood         Ragnarok-N-Roll         Norse      2229         108
    Kaz           Kazman29        Malekith Cocktails      Delf       2216          50
    Barristan     Barristan the B House of Amber          Delf       2144          50   
    jrpeart       jrpeart         Nuffles Evil Minions    Chaos      2083         221
    tys123        tys123          Pass and Move           Pelf       2026          10
    coachman      bjj hero        Pimpin Aint Easy        Chaos      2024         221
    DakaMan       DakaMan         Dakamanceer VI          Necro      2020         109
    Fallowheart   Fallowheart     Masters of the Pooniver Nurgle     2007         192
    
    Avg Bashy: 120
                    
    Division 2                
    Ging          Ging            Sesame Creeps           Necro      1986         109
    Citizen Nev   keechmj         The Lizard Wizards      Lizard     1965         116
    Street        Street          The HRE                 Helf       1951          41
    20phoenix     20phoenix       I Go Down Easy          Pelf       1943          10
    Mordachai     Mordachai       The Elfbowlers Inc.     Chorf      1915         170
    Mardaed       Mardaed         Skip's Ballers!         Helf       1911          41
    Nikolai II    Dreamy          Number Nine             Delf       1889          50
    Madjesty      Madjesty        Nur Leila is Geila      Humans     1888         100
    
    Avg Bashy: 80
                    
    Division 3                
    DrHealex      DrHealex        Defenders of Gouda      Chaos      1884         221
    magfa         magfa           Coldblooded Coalition   Lizard     1882         116
    Dionysian     Dionysian       Caerdydd Crunchers      Orc        1881         175
    Tjorne        .marXman.       Targaryen               Lizard     1876         116
    kaos001       kaos001         Anvil and Hammer        Dwarf      1844         182
    skullashtray  skullashtray    D.C. Unitedead          Khemri     1842         138
    Squall        EvilSquall      Ironhead Bashers        Orc        1827         175
    TravelscrabbleTravelscrabble  Rat-a-tat-tat           Skaven     1802          80
    
    Avg Bashy: 150
                    
    Division 4                
    willpower68   willpower68     Fruit                   Helf       1800          41
    Ken           KenDontDodge    Old Dirty Dodge Ballers Lizard     1794         116
    akirilus      akirilus        Additional Pylons       Delf       1789          50
    chakkal2001   chakkal2001     The Hell Hounds         Lizard     1768         116
    Phunbaba      Phunbaba        Nozama Horde            Amazon     1768          74
    Narly Bird    Jimmy C         Mobile Blood Donations  Vampire    1758          66
    Jbecks        Jbecks          Da Blackgulf Outlawz    Goblin     1736          32
    LoopH0LE      LoopH0LE        The Unluckys            Necro      1720         109
    
    Avg Bashy: 75
                    
    Division 5                
    Wallbanger    Wallbanger      Nidhoggstad Knightmares Norse      1685         108
    Miicr0        Miicr0          Farfetched Tactics      Welf       1662          37
    Gremzilla     Gremzilla       I wish I played         Orc        1658         175
    Basilisk9466  Basilisk9466    Terrors of Legend       Necro      1654         109
    Remthar       Remthar         Fallen Paladin United   Chaos      1650         221
    danton        danton          Spanish Inquisitors     Ogre       1647         127
    Kjelstad      Kjelstad        Pro Snot                Ogre       1633         127
    Hobnail       Hobnail         March Boyars            Norse      1590         108
    
    Avg Bashy: 127
                    
    Division 6                
    Netsmurf      Netsmurf        Red Unz Go Digitalz     Orc        1566         175
    crimsonsun    crimsonsun      Fantasia                Khemri     1562         138
    dubbs         dubbs           Waaaghvengers           Orc        1556         175
    jounisii      jounisii        Inhumane Touch          Necro      1546         109
    hungrygnome   hungrygnome     Santa's Deadly Helpers  Delf       1523          50
    Grimreefer101 Grimreefer101   Shank's Ahoy's          Delf       1519          50
    Blasscend     Blassc_end      Someone's in the kitche Flings     1507           2
    Landwaker     Landwaker       The Phantom Lords       Undead     1470         117
    
    Avg Bashy: 102
                    
    Division 7                
    HRNSUP        HRNSUP        Awestone Weirdos          Uworld    1440           82
    Altashheth    Altashheth    Sanctuary's Prime Evil    Khorne    1422          124
    Triple Skulls Triple Skulls Yo! Ho! Pro!              Pelf      1419           10
    Lebe666       Lebe666       Night's Watch Rangers     Delf      1384           50
    Barmution     Barmution     Uncle Touchy's Basement   Uworld    1324           82
    Gyasi         Gyasi         Just a flesh wound        Pelf      1317           10
    Pringles      Pringles      Planetary Disaster        Necro     1291          109
    Evil          Zharr-NaggrundSlave Hunters             Chorf     1110          170
    
    Avg Bashy: 80
    
    Total league avg Bashy = 80+102+127+75+150+80+120 / 7 = 105
     
  15. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    New seedings:
    Code:
    Member        Coach           Team                    Race    Seeding   Bashyness
    Division 1                
    Limdood       Limdood         Ragnarok-N-Roll         Norse      2229         108
    Kaz           Kazman29        Malekith Cocktails      Delf       2216          50
    Barristan     Barristan the B House of Amber          Delf       2144          50   
    jrpeart       jrpeart         Nuffles Evil Minions    Chaos      2083         221
    tys123        tys123          Pass and Move           Pelf       2026          10
    coachman      bjj hero        Pimpin Aint Easy        Chaos      2024         221 
    DakaMan       DakaMan         Dakamanceer VI          Necro      2020         109
    Street        Street          The HRE                 Helf       1951          41
    
    Avg Bashy: 101
                    
    Division 2          
    Fallowheart   Fallowheart     Masters of the Pooniver Nurgle     2007         192 
    Ging          Ging            Sesame Creeps           Necro      1986         109
    Citizen Nev   keechmj         The Lizard Wizards      Lizard     1965         116
    20phoenix     20phoenix       I Go Down Easy          Pelf       1943          10    
    Mordachai     Mordachai       The Elfbowlers Inc.     Chorf      1915         170
    Mardaed       Mardaed         Skip's Ballers!         Helf       1911          41
    Madjesty      Madjesty        Nur Leila is Geila      Humans     1888         100
    Nikolai II    Dreamy          Number Nine             Delf       1889          50
    
    Avg Bashy: 99
                    
    Division 3           
    DrHealex      DrHealex        Defenders of Gouda      Chaos      1884         221     
    magfa         magfa           Coldblooded Coalition   Lizard     1882         116
    Dionysian     Dionysian       Caerdydd Crunchers      Orc        1881         175
    Tjorne        .marXman.       Targaryen               Lizard     1876         116
    kaos001       kaos001         Anvil and Hammer        Dwarf      1844         182
    TravelscrabbleTravelscrabble  Rat-a-tat-tat           Skaven     1802          80
    willpower68   willpower68     Fruit                   Helf       1800          41
    akirilus      akirilus        Additional Pylons       Delf       1789          50
    
    Avg Bashy: 123
                    
    Division 4                
    skullashtray  skullashtray    D.C. Unitedead          Khemri     1842         138
    Squall        EvilSquall      Ironhead Bashers        Orc        1827         175
    Ken           KenDontDodge    Old Dirty Dodge Ballers Lizard     1794         116
    chakkal2001   chakkal2001     The Hell Hounds         Lizard     1768         116
    Phunbaba      Phunbaba        Nozama Horde            Amazon     1768          74
    Narly Bird    Jimmy C         Mobile Blood Donations  Vampire    1758          66
    Jbecks        Jbecks          Da Blackgulf Outlawz    Goblin     1736          32
    LoopH0LE      LoopH0LE        The Unluckys            Necro      1720         109
    
    Avg Bashy: 103
                    
    Division 5                
    Wallbanger    Wallbanger      Nidhoggstad Knightmares Norse      1685         108
    Miicr0        Miicr0          Farfetched Tactics      Welf       1662          37
    Gremzilla     Gremzilla       I wish I played         Orc        1658         175
    Basilisk9466  Basilisk9466    Terrors of Legend       Necro      1654         109
    danton        danton          Spanish Inquisitors     Ogre       1647         127
    Kjelstad      Kjelstad        Pro Snot                Ogre       1633         127
    Hobnail       Hobnail         March Boyars            Norse      1590         108
    hungrygnome   hungrygnome     Santa's Deadly Helpers  Delf       1523          50
    
    Avg Bashy: 105
                    
    Division 6                
    Remthar       Remthar         Fallen Paladin United   Chaos      1650         221
    Netsmurf      Netsmurf        Red Unz Go Digitalz     Orc        1566         175
    crimsonsun    crimsonsun      Fantasia                Khemri     1562         138
    jounisii      jounisii        Inhumane Touch          Necro      1546         109
    Grimreefer101 Grimreefer101   Shank's Ahoy's          Delf       1519          50
    Blasscend     Blassc_end      Someone's in the kitche Flings     1507           2
    Landwaker     Landwaker       The Phantom Lords       Undead     1470         117
    Triple Skulls Triple Skulls   Yo! Ho! Pro!            Pelf       1419          10
    
    Avg Bashy: 103
                    
    Division 7                
    dubbs         dubbs           Waaaghvengers           Orc        1556         175
    HRNSUP        HRNSUP          Awestone Weirdos        Uworld     1440          82
    Altashheth    Altashheth      Sanctuary's Prime Evil  Khorne     1422         124
    Lebe666       Lebe666         Night's Watch Rangers   Delf       1384          50
    Barmution     Barmution       Uncle Touchy's Basement Uworld     1324          82
    Gyasi         Gyasi           Just a flesh wound      Pelf       1317          10
    Pringles      Pringles        Planetary Disaster      Necro      1291         109
    Evil          Zharr-Naggrund  Slave Hunters           Chorf      1110         170
    
    Avg Bashy: 100
    
    And for the interested here's the algorithm step by step:

    1. Calculate average bashyness per division and league total.
    2. Define team tolerance (TT) and division tolerance (DT): These values respectively represent how much deviation from the league average bashyness a team must have to be selected for divisional movement. For my results I've chosen 25%. The division tolerance is how much the divisional average can deviate from the league bashyness average before it is selected for balancing. For my results I've chosen 20%. For our leagues these values correspond to TT <79 >131 and DT <84 >126.
    3. Check the divisions in descending order. If the divisional average doesn't qualify for balancing, move on to next division. If it's above the limit choose the team with the highest adjusted TV that has a bashyness factor that exceeds the TT and swap it for the team with the lowest adjusted TV with a bashyness factor that is below the TT from the division above. Do vice versa if the the divisional average is below the limit, ie. choose a bashy team from a division below and swap for a non-bashy team in this division.
    4. Recalculate bashyness for both divisions and repeat step 3 starting with the highest division changed.

    It's quite possible that this would lead to a repeating cycle for some values of TT and DT, so in that case just alter them or use a bit of common sense.

    I'm working on a better way to select targets for division swapping but I think this is somewhat acceptable atm. As you can see by the result division 3 is still rage city but it's at least somewhat mellowed down.
     
  16. Juriel

    Juriel Active Member

    Messages:
    1,186
    Country Flag:
    'rage city' :D
     
  17. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    Cyanide Username:
    Barmution
    Country Flag:
    Crap, I saw this one too late. Anyway, I don't think I'll put in a low ST modifier due to these teams doing most of the hitting with their bigger guys and usually fouling more than other teams. I might revise the parameters when I get stuff into a spreadsheet but right now it's too much work doing it by hand, so I'll just await some response on the first results of the "reseeding" algorithm.
     
  18. Kjelstad

    Kjelstad Active Member

    Messages:
    835
    Location:
    Washington State
    Steam Username:
    Kjelstad
    Cyanide Username:
    Kjelstad
    Country Flag:
    Yes, I came to the same conclusion from the opposite side. I was thinking with such cheap players you get to put a boot in every turn so they are stronger than they look but then realized STR1 isn't kicking much ass the rest of the game.

    Also Goblins and Flings get game changing inducements you really can't account for. Those two numbers feel right in broken MM though
     
  19. Juriel

    Juriel Active Member

    Messages:
    1,186
    Country Flag:
    Cheap players lead towards fouling, but it's situational, and Skaven and Vamps often are suffering from enough player loss by themselves already. :p
     
  20. Squall

    Squall Member

    Messages:
    577
    Country Flag:
    I like that re-seeding!