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Elf Dabbling with Elves again - starting rosters

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Gallows Bait, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hey all,

    I've noticed in a few posts lately that there's a bit of a resurgance in the use of Pro Elf teams, and yet this is still one team where there's no TV1000 article (Coach isn't after all superhuman and teams are coming on one by one).

    I've been looking to dabble with the elves once more (some of you may remember my ups and downs (mostly downs) previously, but after playing Humans for a while I'm reconciling myself to the fact my AV8 and AV7 teams both get hurt a lot, so I might as well give one a go that at least has AG4 again.

    Now the usual line up I've been taking is as follows:

    2 x Blitzer
    2 x Catcher
    1 x Thrower
    6 x Lineman
    3 x Re-roll

    Now conventional wisdom seems to be that this is optimal, it gives you most of the positionals, or at least as many as you will be able to afford and have some re-rolls, plus it gives you those nifty block/sidestep blitzers from the start.

    My thoughts are that there might be some alternative, I'm pondering the following:

    4 x Catcher
    1 x Thrower
    6 x Lineman
    3 x Re-roll

    Now I know it would sacrifice that block skill early on, as well as those two AV8 players, but given its still only 2 block players in a team whose primary weapon is dodging and passing, plus they don't have strength skill access, so you wouldn't be missing out on any early game killers.

    On the other hand, sidestep is a big weapon to give up on defence against a cage, and blitzing cage corners is the elf blitzer's day job after all.

    What you would gain is 2 more MV8 Nerves of Steel receivers who you can throw through the line into catching position early on. This would help scoring, but is it overkill to have 4 catchers? Would it be giving up too much defense for the sake of a quick touchdown offense?

    After all, a quick touchdown is no good if you can't stall and the opposition has plenty of time to equalise - as my game against Rusty's Khemri recently proved (2-2 after quick scores for me in both halves levelled up by slower persistance from the khemri to equalise each time).

    Thoughts anyone?
     
  2. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Sounds like a viable alternative to try, that is for sure, specially in an open league or ladder environment, as you will have plenty of time to develop. But be prepared for serious reroll burning and maybe higher than usual number of injuries in your first matches.

    In a limited number of games, or season based, league I would start with the classic one (your 1st option).

    Overall I always aim for the 4 catchers but somehow I feel they are naked at start with no block or dodge; and having all 4 with no protection is putting out there a lot of TV value up for quick injury and waste. That is why I tend to start with 2 at most and only add the others as LM fall to injuries etc and/or when my initial catchers have skilled up once at least.

    what about:

    3 x Catcher
    1 x Blitzer
    1 x Thrower
    6 x Lineman
    3 x Re-roll

    As a compromise and see how it goes?

    For me the basic premise of pro elf defense relies on the blitzers and their awsome ball carrier marking capabilities. The idea of defending with an AV7, no block team is somewhat... disturbing. In order to have efficient blitzers you need to skill them up as quickly as possible (dodge, tackle, diving tackle). If you do not have them at start that is that much longer for you to get there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  3. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    That's kind of what I was worried about with the idea - the catchers add to the offense, but the defense is severely weakened, so I'm more inclined to stick to the standard, it just seems a little plain to see all the teams starting the same.

    If I was better at stalling cages things might be different, as it is I seem to get beaten up to easily right now - though not as badly as my first team did!
     
  4. Geoffv

    Geoffv New Member

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    Not starting with your AV8 Block players is going to be painful.
    Suddenly against other agile teams you have no reliable blitzers. Even 2 dice blocks with no Block have a 1 in 9 chance of turnover.
    Against bash teams it's even wosre, as you won't be able to mark the caged ball carrier, and will just get pounded on as you try to block there movement down the pitch.

    I'm playing Pro Elves in a private league now, and went with almost the standard:
    2 Blitzers
    2 catchers
    7 Linemen
    3 rerolls
    10k banked for appothacary.

    It worked as I got 40k in my first match and bought my appothacary, however not starting with a thrower hurt me. My team only started winning games once I had bought a thrower, as I was using a catcher in that position.
     
  5. Strobinator

    Strobinator Member

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    I recommend the maximum number of blitzers to start. Catchers tend to be SPP hogs since they are so easy to score TD's with. Consequently, you can add them late and still level them up quickly. Your defense will be pretty terrible without the blitzers. While starting out with a lot of catchers make you very difficult to stop from scoring, a bashing team will likely just kick to you and do the 15 turn grind rather effectively on your 7 armor non-block having squad.

    Or maybe you will draw poor opponents and get some 4 touchdown scoring SPP bonanzas. While I prefer starting with two blitzers, I suppose you may do alright not starting with any!
     
  6. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Well I gave the standard line up a quick test run on Naggaroth last night to help get me back up to speed on my elf handling.

    I was matched to a vampire team with 4 vamps, which gave them a big strength advantage. I should have been able to capitalise when the new vampire player lost 2 vamps to bloodlust because he didn't know how to bite the thralls and his turns timed out.

    Unfortunately Nuffle was giving me a good kicking and every even half way important dice roll failed, no matter how easy it should have been.

    2+ dodges failed and ended turns 3 or 4 times, ball pick ups failed 4 out of 5 times - my ball possession was 8% in the end and that was boosted by a kick off that resulted in a hand off - a 3+ throw with pass re-roll failed twice. I caused 1 KO and 2 stunned only through out the entire match, failing to break the AV7 thralls almost entirely - in return I lost 3 KO, 2 injured and numerous stunned.

    All in all my elves played like aged dwarves in terms of their agility and collapsed at the slightest block like halflings, leaving me losing 0-2 and deciding to scrap the team after 1 match when the only SPP of the entire match - the MVP - went to one of the injured (-1AV) linemen.

    Still, I will try again and it did prove the value of the blitzers' sidestep - even if trying to stay along side a cage with 3 vampires is a challenge.
     
  7. biLLy

    biLLy Member

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    From playing in NAGG with elves, Ive found the following points importants:

    * Dont start playing elves in a 2min turn match, you will find yourself usually without time. After playing with them I still find myself looking for more time usually (which is pure BS).

    * A good averaged starting roster would be 3RR plus all your blitzers. Consider at least 1-2 catchers and 1 thrower to save rerolls. After some tries Ive found myself more relaxed playing this roster:

    2Blitzers
    3Catchers
    2Throwers
    4LM
    2RR

    But it will be hard, dont doubt it, you will have a hard time for sure...

    * Tactics, try always to keep your thrower out of reach, then try to make a hole in their lines and place there as much of your players as you can, and well covered one catcher. As an starting point, making a cage around four corners of a receiver inside their lines (at 8squares or less close to their TD zone) will give you 90% times a TD. In fact, Ive found that elfs are the easiest elves to score in 2turns, really easy once you get the trick, it will be rinse & repeat.

    * The hard side is you will get a lot of casualities, you usually will get outnumbered and playing in Nagg with elves is hard because you would need a roster of 13 players, and that would make a whole bloat of TV, making you play against more experienced and developed teams, and hence, getting even more casualities and reducing your winning chances...

    So yeah, thats mainly because everybody plays Chaos/Dwarves/Orcs in Nagg, because they can run with a team of 11 players, and still be competitive...

    Still Im actually playing with a WE team (4-0-0), in the 1300s and having lot of fun and victims, but Im sure when the blood starts it will be my end, I have almost no chance to be competitive with these elves at high TVs, but while I have fun I dont care about ranking and all that stuff.

    Best luck there man.
     
  8. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Who said you need to go high TV with elves in Nagg to be competitive? Take a look at this:

    http://bbtactics.com/forums/elves-even-better-high-tv-nonsense-t588/

    I have been consistently around the 150-200 rank in Nagg with that team (+20 games played). I argue that with a TV based MM system, one of the ways for woodies and pro´s to stay competitive in the long run is precisely to remain below the 1500 TV.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  9. Geoffv

    Geoffv New Member

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    Hey Billy, I like this roster you've put up. Tough going it with only 2 rerolls, but squeezing an extra catcher, and both you throwers on an opening lineup could be worth the risk.

    I like the idea of having both throwers from the outset, as you can rack up completions with less risk by picking up with one thrower, and passing to the second. I usually use a lineman for this to give them some SPPs.
     
  10. Doover

    Doover Member

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    Bringing this old Thread back to life after choosing Pro-Elf for my next team.

    It´s a smaller league (6 Teams) with 10 games per Season.

    Thought about quite a different Starting Roster.

    - 2 Blitzer
    - 1 Catcher
    - 8 Linemen
    - 4 RR´s
    =1.000.000 gp´s


    Your Blitzer simply need Dodge as fast as possible, so I want to start with both of them and will try to let them get to lvl 2 as fast as possible.

    The Catcher will try to play the thrower/Ballcarrier. The idea behind him is to let a liner pick up the ball and throw a quick pass to him in the back. That way my Liner will get a few SPP´s as well and with Catch it´s less RR costly. Also does his high MV help him bring the ball into scoring/passing range after hiding in the Backfield and if he should somehow gets into some TZ´s his NoS helps a lot.

    I´ll lose some Linemen for sure so I wanted to get some more of them so that a few could actually survive long enough to get a some defence skills.

    My 4 Re-Rolls will help me to dodge away from stronger teams and can also be used to forget the missing thrower. Also should 4 of them be enough so I´ll never have to buy a new one for the double price.

    I´ll get a Apo as soon as possible and after that starting to buy more Positionals to replace dead or crippled linemen.


    Does that plan make any sense for the more experianced of you or shall I forget it right away?
     
  11. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I like the idea, the catcher adds a threat to your sides offense that the thrower doesn't and will put people on the defensive, but over all he will need more re-rolls than a thrower since it limits the catching option to only him, in order to save the re-roll, where as the thrower gets the re-roll regardless of who he throws to.

    Certainly so long as the re-rolls and the blitzers are there you aren't going wrong, and the catcher is a nice one to have in place from the start, providing you don't mind him hogging SPP.
     
  12. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Looks solid to me. The catcher can indeed make a good ball carrier early on for a running game and it's cost effective too, because you get all your re-rolls at half price. Definitely worth trying out.