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Daemons of Khorne Roster

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Coach, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    From my own personal point of view, I really don't see this as an extreme deviation from the fluff, and the use of human cultists as the lineman position certainly fits well enough, especially when you consider the aspect of perfecting the killing art, rather than just brute force.

    Nor does the lack of mutations overly concern me. They could possibly have added them as a double on the Bloodletters, but I wouldn't have given them more than that without it being both against fluff and balance - by and large the creatures of Khorne don't really favour mutations, and most of those available wouldn't really fit on that basis.

    Bloodletters are probably the only player I would consider notable weak compared to fluff - but making them stronger would have required a significant decision on balance.

    Make them Strength 4 and I'd have upped the price to around 110-120k each.

    The Bloodthirster was never going to be easily balanced, I doubt Cyanide were in a position to dictate new rules such as the instability and other attempts to moderate the far more powerful versions of the Bloodthirster from earlier editions, so toning him down was the least painful method of including him - its that or face a 250k big guy.
     
  2. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Regarding fiction, the Gotrek & Felix books there are plenty of these days, not all by William King. The Vampire was Genevieve and they are brilliant books indeed. Konrad is also an excellent series.

    I did, until I moved two years ago, own every single novel or book published by Black Library, a good couple of hundred of them, and I ended up giving the majority away simply because I couldn't fit them in any longer. :(

    I kept the Konrad saga and the Genevieve novels though, I generally find the pre-Black Library GWs novels of the 1990s better then the 2000s Black Library novels, even if the fluff has long changed.

    Its also worth noting that author of the Genevieve books, Jack Yeovil is a pseudonym of acclaimed cult british sci-fi writer Kim Newman.
     
  3. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I think it's an interesting roster anyway. Will cause a lot of frustration, but could do well in the right hands. Certainly a challenge.

    Personally I would have made a couple of tweaks to it, in order to make it a bit closer to the fluff. I would have probably made the Heralds Str 4 instead of the Bloodletters. There are only 2 of them and the Str 4 would be more necessary for them due to Frenzy, turning them into slightly better Norse werewolves (Horns and Juggs).

    I probably would have made the BloodThirster Str 6 too and upped his cost to 200k. Very expensive, but he would then be clearly the best Big Guy in the game.
     
  4. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t for the life of me remember the name of Genevieve. Thanks for letting me know as I was thinking about it on the train this morning. I agree those books were quite good, as were the Felix and Gotrek ones. Back in the day, I liked it so much that I purchased the miniatures of Felix and Gotrek (they used to be in my Dwarf army).

    Agree with Danton that the Heralds could possibly be S4 – but then that’s pretty powerful considering they also have horns/jug. In such a case you would have to up their cost and it would then make this a very expensive team to get all the positionals. It would also mean choosing your starting roster would be a nightmare.

    But it would give them a needed boost and fit in with the theme a bit more. I’m happy with the big guy as he is (already very powerful imo).
     
  5. Dalryk

    Dalryk Member

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    As I understand it, Heralds are supposed to be champion/extreme Bloodletters, so I would also think it makes sense to give them St4 rather than the ordinary demons.
     
  6. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    I have three omnibus gotrek and felix books I got last week. Haven't read for about 12 years so looking forward to it. :D
     
  7. Juriel

    Juriel Active Member

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    Aye, ST4 on Heralds would seem obvious, but the thing with mass Frenzy is that it's very easy for it to tip over from a liability to megapowerful.

    Two ST4 guys and a ST5 Claw guy would suddenly make the team a LOT better on the regular bashing front (as opposed to tactical surfing), which could be too much.
     
  8. bathoz

    bathoz Member

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    Which big guys are better than the Bloodthirster?

    Maybe a Kroxi?
    Maybe a chaos Ogre (or whatever they're called)?

    Out the gate, it's certainly the most reliable. But does it have the highest ceiling? Maybe not. I guess, for most teams, a tentacles, SF, block, Guard, prehensile tail chaos ogre would be better.

    I don't know. It's interesting. Minotaurs are liabilities until they get block, when they become match winners. Juggs (and horns) gets the BT most of the way there at the start.
     
  9. Juriel

    Juriel Active Member

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    Kroxi is always the best big guy.

    Beast Of Nurgle is right behind, seeing how it starts with Tentacles. :p

    You can always build better blitzers out of something that isn't a big guy. Reliable killer > unreliable one you cannot use rerolls on.

    While I find Bloodthirster a necessity for this team, he will be an ungodly amount of bloat when you're up against any kind of a dodgy team, and he just won't move.
     
  10. Kjelstad

    Kjelstad Active Member

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    Some skill that that subtracts from any armor over 7 but adds to armor 7 and under?

    that would be awesome. Smash Orcs and Dwarfs all day but those Snots and Halflings just bounce right back

    lets reverse stunty and thick skull for injury rolls while we are at it :)
     
  11. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    I thought that skill was called claw..
     
  12. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    I don't have a roster, as I never saw the need. But saw adoption of this on TFF that were balanced and as fluffy.
    I have things I'd do, but it seems GW put a lot of "handcuffs" on the designers.


    Announcement on the NAF site that these won't be sanction "at the moment" (front page, news).
     
  13. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    A skill that means you have to roll under AV to cause injury rolls - treemen fall to pieces and snotlings become nigh immortal :p
     
  14. Txapo

    Txapo Member

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    Slann Blitzer does it as well and has no negative trait apart of being a frog!:D
     
  15. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

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    Below I have posted my rant in regards the main complaints I have been reading regarding the new Khorne team that I posted on the main Blood Bowl forum, its not likely to be what you expect though, just thought people might find it interesting.

    Ignoring the fact that none of the Daemons will or could not possibly fit the fluff and be used in a game of bloodbowl, yet I am not going to even give it a second thought because blood bowl does not fit in the Warhammer back ground and has not got any place within the 'current' warhammer world. Blood bowl did fit into the original bunch of accumulated ideas that were the basis for the Warhammer world as developed by Rick Priestly, Alan Davies, Jervis Johnson etc when they were writing/developing the enemy within for wfrp 1st edition 25+ years ago, but this is not the current Warhammer setting by a long stretch, if it was we would have the fifth chaos god (Malaw), as well as the gods of Law and Order, with the Chaos Deities holding a much lesser role. So I think that any comments regarding Daemons/the Khorne team not fitting the back ground is a statement that in itself is flawed, and can be made based only from common on miss information and a general lack of comprehension of the Universe and its development. The Khorne Daemons do not fit with the current Warhammer representation of them, they are vastly underpowered, yet this is a small slight compared to the fact that BLOODBOWL does not fit into the Warhammer World anymore at all, which is a totally indisputable fact, so any claims that the team does not fit with the fluff is a non intentional by most, way of moaning about something because it is new or different, or most likely because there permission was not sought first. Yet this complaint is actually a complete fallacy, and is comparable to me making a statement like

    "I do not like Toilken's books because Harry Potter is a crap main character!"

    Now I think that mostly this point of view exists though ignorance, and most people that are vocal about this subject, will have likely just jumped aboard this idea, that Cyanide have broken some ancient blood bowl ideology and what they are doing is fundamentally against the common perception of the Warhammer World. People being people (especially British ones like myself) love to have a good moan, and we are not satisfied unless we are unhappy about something and can tout of cause. Sadly i am sorry to say that what/where/who ever the original source of this issue stems from is actually very mistaken and has begun a completely pointless crusade. Now obviously despite bloodbowl not existing in the Warhammer World, it is based upon races that populate that universe, so we would expect to see the Blood Bowl versions represent this, in which in my opinion the Khorne team does, it feature iconic Khorne daemonic creatures and the most prevalent skill is frenzy which is associated with the Blood God. That is enough, they are in fact closer to the Warhammer background than say an Amazon team, and are far more related to the Warhammer World than the fact that lizardmen and Skaven would possibly play a co-operative sport against one and other, let alone in the grand stadium in Altdorf, with the Grand Theologist himself having pitch side tickets! Come on people wake up and smell the Orca Cola! Ok Rant over.

    In regards to the team itself I am happy, my main fear was that they would break the game by providing an easy/auto win button, and in designing them slightly below the standard they create no issues regarding there inclusion into leagues, and competitions, yet they are not a joke team either and in the right hands I imagine they will be a very effective, and fluid team. I want to play some matches against them before starting a team myself, but they offer a different style of 'high risk' play that does not fall into the domain of any of the current teams. I am glad that the designers were far more imaginative with there design than who ever thought lets add a new team to bloodbowl I know khorne, wow, they really going outside the box there!

    Now I would like to see a Fimir Team, A mercenary team, A zoat star player, A hobgoblin team (from the great Khans east of the ogre kingdoms) I want snotlings to be replaced with Gnoblars on an ogre team, and come on we really REALLY want a fishman of Ind team!

    No more Chaos Gods though please, the last two would be even more stupid in concept than Khorne , Tzeentch who is the god of fate, who can see all possible out comes and results before they happen, the lord of change... Yep a team that can see the future seems pretty advantaged to me, and Slaanesh the Prince of Pleasure who daemons would step upon the pitch and the opposing team would hand them the ball, while lining up for each players turn to be decapitated.... The Warhammer World is massive, being far far greater than the earth (I think 10 times the size but I may be making that up) and blood bowl does not actually exist in the Warhammer World, so as long as the idea comes from the Warhammer Worlds previous incarnations it cannot possibly break or upset the cannon which Games Workshop Currently produces.

    As a side thing with the Rumoured release of a new TT set for the end of the year if GW will do anything to address the background, my guess is no, because it does not matter in the grand scheme of things or have any affect upon the History of the current Warhammer World. If it was not for the fact that Blood Bowl has always been a great game, to such an extent that it amassed a huge following, who generally do not give a damn about what GW are doing, they would have shelved it a decade+ ago, or more likely sold use of the licence over Fantasy Flight Games along with all there other existing non Wargamming products/Trade Marks.

    Any way my waffle has droned on, well done Dode and gang for presenting a new style of team even if the concept is dull, and dont worry about the background because if its brought up then that person actually does not have the slightest clue what he is talking about.

    Thanks Crimsonsun
     
  16. Captain Thorrek

    Captain Thorrek Member

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    My main beef with the team is ironic: they play directly with my style. I like a good challenge in creating teams, and this one lets me cherry-pick all the best skills for my style. Here's how I'd work some of them.

    Style: Street Sweeper
    Pretty much the team is there to chain push the guys off the pitch, or wipe them out on the way there. The ones close to the sidelines move to the center and start the whole thing over again like it's a practice drill.

    Pit Fighter: Leader for the cheap reroll... I would take other passing skills on this team, but it's designed to walk through after clearing the pitch of the opposition, one way or another.

    Bloodletters: Being able to take Tackle, Diving Tackle, Mighty Blow, and Guard on a player without breaking a sweat is just rediculous. Sure you can argue it'll take them a bit to get all those skills, but they don't all have to take them in that order.

    Heralds: Guard, Tackle, Mighty Blow alongside the Bloodletters is the key to bumping these guys up to 11. Chainpushing in tandem, they just grind the players up against each other until the opposition falls over. They might be ST 3, but they're also AG 3, and will have a much better time of getting SPP's through touchdowns.

    Bloodthirster: Mighty Blow, Guard, Stand Firm... does he really need anything else apart from Tackle?

    If played right, this could be destruction on a Silver Platter I'm glad they didn't allow mutations, since doubles or not just Prehensile Tail or Claw could make this race broken.
     
  17. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    Too much AV7 and Str 3 on this team... Frenzy feast also means lots of turnovers. Even simple Pitfighters can't block without fearing getting lost into a -2 die hit.

    I love frenzy... but this is too much to control... might be fun... but can become really frustrating. Against a developed team they will get creamed.
     
  18. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    If Tzeentch knows all dice outcome, then I think it could be fun to make a roster spamming pro, but only give them general skill access - they know it all and need no more:p
     
  19. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    4 AV 7 isn't that much. High elves have it, and manage well enough.
     
  20. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    High Elves have Agi 4 to get away...

    Also I thought some of the Daemons had AV7 as well as the pitfighters...