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Dark Elf Dark Elves vs Lizards

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Mr Suplex, Jul 20, 2016.

  1. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

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    I have the following Dark Elf team:

    4 Blitzers /w Blodge
    1 Witch Elf
    1 Runner with Dodge
    6 Linemen (1 /w Wrestle and 1 /w Kick)

    I will be facing a Lizard team as follows:
    4 Skinks (2 /w Sidestep)
    6 Saurus (1 /w Block and 1 /w Guard)
    1 Kroxigor

    I'm a bit stumped how to approach this matchup. Typically against bash teams my players are faster than the opponents Strength 4 players, so I can easily outmaneuver them. Lizards, though, are as fast as my linemen and almost as fast as the rest of my team, so I'm not sure what my advantage is here other than AG4.

    I know the standard "Kill the Skink/Mark the Saurus" approach to facing Lizards, but I worry that marking the Saurus is just going to lead to my team being dead, even if my linemen (who will be doing the marking) have AV8. Is there a way to mark Saurus effectively without coming into direct contact with them?

    Also, I usually like to kick first because I think Dark Elves excel at defense, but in this case I'm thinking that maybe I should receive first so I can start hunting Skinks right out the gate and possibly leave him with little in the way of offensive options by the time he gets to play the ball. Thoughts?

    Any other advice on how to approach this matchup would be appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    With only 1 saurus with block and no mighty blow I think marking is the way to go. If you can mark up his saurus's it will force him to blitz with the Krox (unreliable) and form cages with skinks. You can win those matchups. Yes, if he starts getting lucky casualty rolls it can be bad for you, but I still think it's the best approach.

    With no tackle he's going to have a hard time moving your blodgers out of the way. So I would do the normal column defense and try to snipe skinks from the side on defense. Kick it deep to force him to keep some saurus's back or risk failing the pickup and getting swarmed.
     
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  3. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Well-Known Member

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    This might sound dumb but don't be afraid of having your blitzers in base contact with his players. He's got a 22% chance of rolling a POW on a 2d block and a 11% chance of knocking himself on his ass and causing a turnover or forcing a RR. It also means if he's blocking with his Saurus then he isn't moving the cage. Start on Defnese if you can, because if you get down players you are going to have a hard time stopping him. Surround the cage and blitz a corner off of it. He can also 1/9 the dodge out or the handoff. Keep an eye on skinks outside the cage, those the the biggest scoring threats.
     
  4. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

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    You don't think I should receive first and just go after his skinks before he even gets a chance to play the ball?

    Good points on his lack of block allowing me to mark his saurus more aggressively.
     
  5. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Well-Known Member

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    You can but I wouldn't. If he's smart he'll set up so you can't Blitz a skink T1, or do it so that you are out of position to do it. If he's smart he wants to score on T8 anyway, and he'll need to use his Saurus to cage and progress downfield so they'll be less protected. Those columns you want to set up? He can do that but with Sarus in front and skinks in the back. If you can get him to score when you have 2 or 3 turns left in the first half you've accomplished your goal.
     
  6. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

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    Yeah I usually kick first anyway, but was just thinking there might be an exception given the matchup. Thanks for the advice.
     
  7. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    You don't want to man mark his players every turn, focus on peeling a couple of saurus off the cage first then attack. You can do a lot of work with screening his players away from each other. Skink hunting is great but hard to pull off.
     
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  8. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I may have overemphasized the marking. A lot of times he'll mark up on his turn to force you to dodge out or take hits. Or having a downed player next to a sarus that just blocked. You don't have to dodge these players out every time. Screening works well if you do it right.
     
  9. Valcurdra

    Valcurdra Active Member

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    I dont agree you should mark up saurus they will mark you.

    Dodge some players to give an assist then mark downed saurus so they cant move after standing.

    This should open up enough room to make a path to the skinks. The blizt/mark them with a blitzer as often as you can.

    Skinks fail dodge 1/10 times so they will normally dodge at the end of a turn. By marking them all you get a hit on everyone of them if your opponent has a turn over earlier in the turn.
     
  10. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    And if you have enough players left over to give two assists to the blitzer blitzing a skink - well, three dice is a more reliable takedown than two. ;)
     
  11. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

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    What do you mean by "screening his players away from each other"?
     
  12. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    A screen is generally a line of players with 2 spaces between them so there is no way through without dodging.
    If a saurus gets split off from the bunch then don't let him just move back with the rest of them. Position your players so they can't easily move wherever they want.
     
  13. Mr Suplex

    Mr Suplex Member

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    Ok got it. I do that all the time just wasn't sure of the term. Thanks!
     
  14. NieA7

    NieA7 Well-Known Member

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    Skink hunting as a tactic is over-rated - without tackle/POMB it's more likely to spread your own team out allowing the saurus to punch through. Much more dangerous for lizards is slowly pulling their formation apart with a combination of screening and marking as TravelScrabble and Tys suggest: if you can spread the saurus over the pitch it'll be much easier to get shots at the carrier, or run your own through.

    With 12 players an occasional gang foul might be worth considering too, especially on the skilled saurus or krox.
     
  15. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Well-Known Member

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    Baiting the sideline is also a good option, as surfing Saurus is a lot easier than trying to outbash them. Granted I play with 2 Witch Elves so I can hit either sideline when I need to. Setting up your screen 3 spaces off of the sideline means they have an open space right next to the sideline. With the middle full of elves screening of it gets tempting to punch the corner and set up a side cage.

    Edit: and I don't like gang fouling for the same reason you don't like Skink hunting. You end up with a bunch of elves out of position around 1 guy to try and depitch him.
     
  16. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Yeah gangfouling, I've had great experiences and terrible one. Golden rule is, gnag fouls are best early in the half where clumping up isn't as detrimental (especially if you kick deep and they have a lot of players back). Under no circumstance should you surround a prone player if it means that they in turn can box you in and force you into a scrum, made that mistake as skaven against Magfa's Chorfs once and it still haunts me, oh the ratmanity.
     
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  17. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    You were ambushed and surrounded on an open field in broad daylight :D
     
  18. NieA7

    NieA7 Well-Known Member

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    In terms of position the difference between skink hunting and gang fouling is that the skinks tend to be hidden behind the saurus, which inevitably splits your team. Gang fouling, on the other hand, allows you to at least keep your guys together, making it harder to punch through and easier to redeploy. Your mileage may vary and I'm not recommending you do it every turn, but demonstrating that you're not afraid to do it can alter the way your opponent plays.
     
  19. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to kill some ugly hats, is that, is it wrong?!
     
  20. Valcurdra

    Valcurdra Active Member

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    Its actually the exact opposite in my experience. When you gang foul your guys are clumped together and it is easier for your opponent to surround you which prevents you from defending the flanks.

    In some cases it can be worth it anyway but generally you want to be spread out infront of your opponent. Once this is under control if you have a spare guy or 2 send them to kill skinks