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Deside on CCV

Discussion in 'Crunch Cup' started by Netsmurf, Jun 2, 2011.

?

What should CCV be like

Poll closed Jun 23, 2011.
  1. Like CCIV with two stages before playoffs and rookie teams

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  2. 1 groupestage before playoffs and rookie teams

    8 vote(s)
    30.8%
  3. A cup with access for old teams as well, final format to be desided later

    10 vote(s)
    38.5%
  4. Extended inducements YES

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  5. Extended inducement NO

    18 vote(s)
    69.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Doover

    Doover Member

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    Well... I have a question...
    right now nobody knows if the 10 people who want to use an old Team prefer 1 Groupphase or two is that right?
     
  2. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    With smaller groups, we can always have a match-rematch type of league, with each pair of teams playing against each other twice. That would give everyone 10 matchdays before playoffs in 6-team groups.
     
  3. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Very good point, you don't have to regroup, could just play everyone twice.

    I still favour a divisional system to try and give more people more to play for, as with a single play off stage its over for a lot of people quickly - fighting promotion and relgation battles would help keep that interest, but I appreciate its a longer league and more difficult.

    Favouring including older teams, I'd personally still want to see a reasonable length format as CCIII was too short for me with only 3 matches in group stage plus 1 play off, my team barely developed.
     
  4. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Longer league or more diffcult? Not necessarily.

    I would much rather prefer a 5-6 match only group stage. This helps players with a team that does not work for them or that otherwise became demotivated to start over quickly. A 5-6 match round also helps minimizing the impact of team abandons (a team abandonning half way through a 9 match group round not the same thing as only leaving after 4 games in a 5 match group round...)

    Other than that I am all for a 2 stage kind of league:

    1- Group phase (5 games or so max)
    2- Play off phase, played by the top 2 in each group

    Also, depending on how many we are Id also like to see 2 Divisions, maybe 2 groups in each so have play offs in each. This will allow promotion/demotions etc which is a lot of fun. It would also allow to any player starting new teams to join at the 2nd Division with higher chances to meet other new or relatively unskilled teams etc. Ideal number of teams for this to work? 24! :p

    Overall, a league based on my proposal above would last:

    Group phase (6 teams per group = 5 weeks) + playoffs (4 teams: semifinal and final, 2 weeks) = 7 weeks, less than 2 months per season (!!). Longer? No way.

    Division 1:
    Group 1 = 6 teams
    Group 2 = 6 teams
    Bottom 2 in each group get demoted to Division 2

    Division 2
    Group 1 = 6 teams
    Group 2 = 6 teams
    Top 2 in each group get promoted to Division 1
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  5. Avatar111x

    Avatar111x Member

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    If you do play a short term group stage, then I'd suggest that developed teams are allowed, or at very least they can return for a later competition. Some teams like Chaos only hit their stride after a few games and I wouldn't want anyone to be put off playing them.

    If Crunch Cup VI would then allow returning teams as well as new ones, that may counter that problem.
     
  6. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Absolutely, that is my point precisely, I've always wanted to allow old teams to continue in the next season and the system I discuss above perfectly caters for it. The beauty is that it also allows for new teams if any coach so wanted! and starting in a division where chances are they will encounter other new teams, or otherwise other "not so good" teams.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  7. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for me I would vote experienced teams for CCVI. I could break my nasty orcs out again, but I would prefer a change for CCV.

    I do like the crazy stuff and you can't do that reliably with orcs (last match vs JR not withstanding).
     
  8. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    I really, really like Viajero's system. It's fast and dropouts won't affect it overmuch. +1 for that.
     
  9. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    I also like it. The groups can be expanded in future seasons if there are more players willing to take part in the competition.

    EDIT: But we have to decide if place in the higher division is for a player or a team. I mean, what if the current winner decides to try a new team next season? Does he keep his Division #1 seed, or has to start from Disivion #2 (default for new teams).
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  10. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Just remember that no system is perfect. This one needs 24 players to start with... if we have less to start with it can be an issue to organize the groups, and if we have more, then we either go to 32 or plan to have a few teams in reserve (which could replace drop outs eventually)...

    Hehe, in my world, the divisions are for teams, not players I am afraid. If the winner decides to start a new team he should go regrettably to 2nd Division :D Not the end of the world! and also I am pretty sure he would be more than happy that his new unskilled team avoids the surely more developped Division 1 teams :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  11. Doover

    Doover Member

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    In my local club I people started complaining that they can´t win the championship in a 2 division system when they are in divison 2.
    Maybe next season we try a system where the #1-3 of group 1 and the first of group 2 join the playoffs. So everybody has a chance to win the title even when they are starting in Group 2.
    Just an Idea thrown in the middle.
     
  12. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yes, but this is the basic discussion on the type of championship we want.

    A tourney where everyone has an equal chance to be the absolute winner is inherently incompatible with a Divisional system or with a system that allows old teams to remain the next season... veteran teams would always be at an advantage over new teams in general.

    They are just 2 different systems and each has its merits. For me the Divisional system is more fun because it provides a "natural" way to group teams more reasonably across skill and TV (not perfect but it helps) and also because not being in Division 1 is intself a big incentive to play:

    Getting promoted to Division 1 for me would be the same feeling as winning! :p and it would probably be so recognized by all our peers here!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  13. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    Not exactly. Any number divisible by four is ok, as we can make two consatnt Division #1 groups with 6 teams each and divide the remaining teams among two groups of Division #2.

    With 28 that would be 2 groups of 8 teams in Division #2.

    I have no idea if Cyanide client allows for uneven groups, but if yes, we could also go with any number of teams divisible by two. With 26 teams, for example, we would then have two groups of 6 teams in Division #1, and two groups in Division #2, one with 8 teams and one with 6.

    Of course the odds of promotion would not be even between those two groups, so teams would have to be assigned randomly to them.
     
  14. Avatar111x

    Avatar111x Member

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    I vote for Etheric not bringing his nasty Orcs out again. Can we set a poll up for this? ;)
     
  15. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yes there are ways to set this up, but it would probably require setting different leagues at cyanide´s (but remember each group in any given Cyanide league has to have the same number of participants plus that number has to be an even number), whereas with 24 or 32 all could be done in one league.

    Not the end of the world obviously, agreed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  16. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I reckon if we're in a situation where some new teams are needed to fill up a top division we could select the player who did best previously though...
     
  17. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like we will go with a shorter cup for CCV. Therefore I say to thee that unless said vote gets changed we shall endeveaur to battle forth in this manner:

    At 24 teams we do 4 x 6 teams, then have a 16 man playoff, then for the CCVI we change format to the divisional system proposed by the spanish inquisition and alow former CC teams or teams from CTA to join. Those elder teams will be seeded acording to a subjective evaluation from me and Etheric (should he still want to co-admin):pow:

    EDIT: If we get 24 or 32 teams, then I say that the top 2 finishers in each groupe make it to the playoffs - who knows perhaps a div2 team could surprices us all and take the trophy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  18. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Lol, sometimes I should shut up, now if it is a disaster you know who to blame :( :D
     
  19. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good plan Netsmurf. This will allow me to try out a new team for CCV before breaking out my old CCII Gob team for CCVI.

    Whilst 4 divisions of 6 is quite nice, I am hoping we can get more interest from coaches and have around 32 players for CCV. Its really hard to gauge the level of interest though, so I guess we just have to wait and see.

    Rumors of a gazette to accompany CCV are also intriguing ;)
     
  20. Rav3n73

    Rav3n73 Member

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    Hi All,

    Just want to get your thoughts on CCVI. Are we still going for entering old teams into this one?

    If so, would it be unsporting to get a team registered in "Crunch them all" and then play a load of games before CCVI starts to get said team skilled up?

    Lee
     
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