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Downward Spiral

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Breidr, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    It's hard for me to explain the whole situations, or my current feelings, but it seems certain teams of mine just crash and burn, despite my attempts to save them, let alone win with them.

    Just ccame out of a 0-4 loss in thhe third match with my Skaven. I only have 3000 in the bank and the following mangled players.

    2 dead linrats
    -AV thrower
    -2 MV Gutter

    I am gaining no money for each match and a journeymen took my MVP, and I couldn't buy him. I have no skills on this team and it just keeps compounding. I had a death in the last game, but I it was a journeymen, so I did manage to dodge one bullet.

    I've tried everything from the sane to the insane, and both passes this season have been intercepted. I just don't find the games engaging and fun anymore, and there are 7 more to come...

    Meanwhile it seems like my Brettonian opponent could get away with murder last game, dodges, one die blocks, it was just further demoralizing.

    I though I would try Skaven because out of the recommended races they are the only ones I haven't tried [out of Human, Orcs, Undead, and Skaven] but it seems to be one disaster after another. I don't even really look forward to weekly matches anymore because of the garbage fire that has been this season.


    I'm trying to find the root of the problem and do some thinking for next season. It's certainly going to be a reroll, but to what, why, should I?

    I've generally tried to avoid mirror matches in leagues, so I look at racial make-ups and make my choice, within reason of course. Every time this has led me to an AV 7 race it has ended poorly. Pro Elves, Norse, Skaven, all died a horrible death and were unable to make up ground mid season while everyone is making money and SPPs. Should I avoid AV 7? I don't know.

    In the past I've done well with Undead, Dwarfs, and Orcs, making playoffs with the first two, but with BB2, I decided to move platforms rather than continue with the Undead. Should I throw mirror matches to the wind and try Orcs or Dwarfs again next season?

    I don't know what to ask myself or know enough to know where to go from here. All I know is these situations are making me dislike playing. I know I love the game, I just need to find out how to fix these situations, but I'm unsure where to start.
     
  2. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you need a break to clear your head and remind yourself what it is you love about the game and why you play; maybe it has just become something you do because it's there.

    If you do continue, first off pick a team that you think you will enjoy playing and don't worry about who you "should" or "should not" play with. It is a game, there isn't much point to wasting two hours and not having fun - that's what you're supposed to be doing at work.

    Some people can have fun playing and rebuilding mangled AV7 teams, some can't. Some people can have fun plodding Orcs and Dwarves up the field one square at a time, some can't. Some people can enjoy playing a fun game they lose, others can't enjoy a lost game no matter how entertaining it might have been. Figure out what you want, and do that until it isn't fun anymore. If there isn't anything that seems fun sit out a season and see what happens, maybe you'll be miserable and rekindle your passion, maybe you'll end up feeling relief and your break will end up longer than you planned.

    As for your Skaven team, why aren't you earning any money? Can't be expenses. Is it just bad die rolls?

    Did you get all of those injuries in your last game? If so that sucks, but is part of playing AV7. At least they are nice and cheap to replace.

    Dead Linerats are not really an issue between matches (all of the injuries can make that specific game much harder to win obviously), just go with Journeymen Linerats. Their job is to get punched in the face so your Runners and Vermin don't, Loners can do that as well as anyone else. I usually wait to buy more Linerats until: 1) I have all positionals filled - 4 GR, 1 Thrower, 2 SV, 2) I can buy until I have at least 13 players all at once, 3) I still have enough in the bank to replace a Vermin after my next match (90k).

    The Thrower needs sacked, but there are a lot of people who say don't bother with a Thrower. Gutter Runners are almost just as good as a Thrower at picking up and throwing the ball and do everything else better.

    The -MV Runners are a bummer but by no means should you fire them; though any other stat bust would be a sacking. You have to get a feel of when it is worthwhile to risk your Runners; you'll be hard pressed to win games if you don't take chances with them, but at the same time the reward needs to be worth the risk otherwise you lose a key piece and the game at the same time.
     
  3. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    I've rolled a 2 and a 1 for my last two winnings. I have an apothecary, but that's about it..
     
  4. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    Part of what makes BB great is the variety. I know and understand Elf play (there are far better coaches than me but I could do it) yet it doesn't appeal to me. There is no stigma to play what everyone else plays if you enjoy it, just play it better.

    Sometimes AV7 can ruin your team early and it's a long way back however with Skaven your team will be wrecked anyway at some point. Constantly rebuilding them is part of the fun. So if you are not enjoying the team rebuilding then maybe Skaven are not for you at the moment. If you are not enjoying them switch to something else. Go with what you enjoy in leagues and play what you feel you should play in MM.
     
  5. LloydsGamble

    LloydsGamble Active Member

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    I can understand your frustrations.

    I started with bash and played a lot of Orcs/Dwarves for a while and become very comfortable with that style. Recently I've decided to try some AGI teams and I came to understand and enjoy High Elves quite a lot.

    Skaven are who I am trying now and I'm having a bit of trouble with them. The issue for me is that I am quite a conservative player and that style has worked best for me. I like protecting my players. With bash teams I try to out position and get the blocking advantage, getting as many blocks as I can without taking them back. Even if I am AV 9, I tend to not directly mark players unless it's really necessary. For High Elves you can reposition players for assists quite easily and again I can usually manage to keep as few of my players getting hit as possible and sometimes actually win the bash war as well as doing the Elfy stuff.

    I totally understand the idea of Skaven as a team of half fodder, half star players, but I think they require a really high risk/reward playstyle that just doesn't suit me. I do love playing with Gutter Runners as a 4-man army and wreaking havoc in the backfield. It it is really satisfying to score a defensive touchdown. The problem for me is you are relying on your Linemen to stand up to a few turns of punishment on the LOS while you try and force a mistake with your Runners/Stormvermin and if it doesn't pay off you end up down on players very quickly.

    In my latest game vs Lizards, I managed to get 2 separate GR blitzes on the Skink ball carrier in the backfield, got the ball on one occasion and snaked eyed the dodge to score. That's just bad luck of course which happens but after 5 turns the Skink was safely caged and screened up the field and I had lost 4 players to injuries for my trouble (I had been tying up the Saurii from coming back to help and it took its toll).

    I don't think it's a pixel hugging issue for me, I am fine with injuries and I know full well it happens a lot with Skaven, it's the feeling of not being in some control I don't like. It's wincing each time your Linemen get punched hoping they will stay on the field because you need that guy tied up. (For the record I only tie up players when I am going all-in for the ball). I have thought about just trying to play super defensively but in that case, Elves are much better so not sure.

    TL;DR As cj said, not all teams are for everyone,and each person enjoys a different style as sbr said although you may find you will return to them later with more experience and knowledge of the game and enjoy them. Good luck with the rest of the season and try and use it as a learning experience.
     
  6. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    For me I've found I need to play a quick and aggressive defensive game with Skaven. If I try to hold the line and protect my good players the line will get broken and then there will be nothing between the endzone and my opponent but my good players. Then the good players will get ground down. But if you can get your team between the ball carrier and their line all of a sudden your opponent is spending all of his time trying to figure out how to proceed and protect the ball; and significantly less time getting to just blitz a good player. I have to force them to use their blitzes to make sure the ball is safe next turn.

    If they do get into a cage I might as well just get out of the way unless I already have a strip ball +AG or leap or strip ball (or all!) type GR that can get the ball out. That goes a long way towards protecting my players, though with any AV7 team you are going to have those matches where your fielding only a few players...
     
  7. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    One thing that helped me with skaven was realizing you can use gutters speed to protect them. If you position gutters behind the cage and on the sidelines the opposition can blitz them, but only if he is happy to take key players far away from the action so he probably won't especially if they're out of range of tackle mb players. eep them out of range of the best killers). That way you can let the line rats get in the way of the cage, which is their job, rather tan having to worry too much about protecting gutters.
     
  8. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    I have a hard time playing elf ball as I don't really have the spatial awareness to play keep away. I find my best games come from good ol' caging with a fast break, my Undead did this a lot.

    Casualties and death don't really get me down, to a point. Hell, it seemed like all my ghouls could roll on injuries was death, but the turnover was okay. It's the games as Norse or Skaven where I am down 3-5 players where everything crumbles. I try to screen, I trty to pick my blocks carefully, but it always seems to fall apart. Compound that with not even having 11 players for next game and it just seems to snowball.

    Rigght now I'm looking at Humans, Dwarfs, and Orcs. Humans can play a game similar to my Undead, trading the mummies for an Ogre. They have lots of skill access, including more strength access for guard.

    Orcs are THE bash team and I'm playing around with one now. Pretty solid team, I'll see how I do with them. Currently playing with no troll.

    Dwarfs do what they do, but not much Else. I can't really say much about my experience with them, other than the fact that I do have a problem with strength teams [Chaos, Orcs, Lizardmen, Khemri] and there is no clean way around it, which can makes things tough and can lead to some bummer games. It's kind of a shame too, as they are my favorite models.