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Fire Stars Blog

Discussion in 'Team Blogs' started by Rav3n73, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Rav3n73

    Rav3n73 Member

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    Hi All,

    Well I thought I'd jump on the band wagon and start my own team blog, hence:-

    "Fire Stars" my High Elf team on MM in the Nag League.

    So I played my first match yesterday afternoon, I seen all the good results people had been getting and the good luck some had had with getting novice players so I was looking forward to a nice fitrst match to ease my team into the Nag League.

    :skull:

    So what team do I get first???? DWARFS!!!

    Ok I thought maybe it's just some kid who has no idea how to play strategically and just picked dwarfs from a power gamming point of view. :skull: Nope they guy had been playing since 1988 was was no novice, he knew exactly what he was doing. :(

    So I lost the toss and he elected to receive, I set up a standard defence and two deep across the board. Only having two players with Block my players were getting knocked down left, right and centre. By turn six I was down to about 6 players and he just stalled on the line until turn eight.

    So I started the second half with just eight players, I did the standard pick up with a line man and then throw to another line man, which resulted in one failed pick up and a failed throw. This resulted in about 4 of my players getting splatted and before long he turned me over.

    So it all statrted again, it was about turn 15, so I had about 7 players to his 11. I did manage to get a lineman through his lines with the ball and clear of his players, although I was 14 spaces short of the EZ, turn 15 I ran 6 spaces to leave just 8 left for turn 16. So my lineman sprints 7 spaces and I send a message to my opponent "This is where he fails his second GFI", and true to form the line elf trips up and goes flying without the ball into the EZ.

    So the match ended up as a 2-0 loss. I've got one Line Elf out for my next match, so my TV is now 960.

    SSP wise I have 4 line elves on 1 each and a Line Elf on 5, so at least he will skill up after the next game, once I get him to do a throw to another team member.

    Current Line up.

    2 X Blitzers
    1x Throwers
    8x Lineman
    3X Re-Rolls
    No Apothecary as yet.

    4,000 Gold Coins.

    Hoping for a bit more luck in my next match up.

    With only 3 players on my team with skill's of which only two are block, I'm really going to struggle against any one with a good spread of Skill's (Dwarf, Norse, Amazon etc). I guess until my line elfs get a decent spread of Block/Dodge, I'm going to struggle getting decent chances of achieving/surviving blocks.

    Lee
     
  2. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    High Elves are really tough to begin with but once you get a fair bit of dodge those bash teams will struggle to get near you. That roster suffers a little for a lack of pace as well, but the catchers later make a big difference.

    Persevere and you have the best elf team in the game at high TV. But mm in itself is a pretty tough place to take an elf team. Elves benefit from accumulating spp faster than their opponents. When every game is matched against teams on equal tv the game is stacked heavily in favour of the bash teams, so remember that you are giving yourself a massive challenge. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2011
  3. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Really? I always considered it the other way around. HEs where one of the easiest elf teams to start off as (along with DEs) thanks to them being one of the tougher elves teams overall but were not as strong as a developed DE/WE team at the end.

    What makes you consider them a harder starting but stronger late game team?
     
  4. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    Well in terms of fragility obviously they have an edge earlier on over Pro Elves and Wood Elves, but in terms of winning games I would say Woodies, Dark Elves and Pro Elves have more obvious routes to scoring touchdowns and winning games. If you try to pass there's a chance of a turnover, receivers can be marked effectively, the team can be outrun or out-bashed by most teams out there. On top of that fatalities and serious injuries have a bigger impact on the High Elf roster in my opinion, based on the cost of replacements if nothing else. For me Dark Elves have a better selection of tools in the box at the beginning.

    High Elves need their catchers to really stretch teams, but if you start with a few you run a real risk of finishing those early games without those catchers. You can't effectively protect four and the thrower.

    I would rank Dark Elves alongside High Elves in the late game. All elves can take skills up to level 7 that are useful and you can develop a team that is almost impossible to pin down.

    For me at high TV this is when the full high elf roster comes into it's own. They are capable of more flexibility in their approach than the Wood Elves say, and the passers and catchers are simply phenomenal when developed. I wouldn't say there's a massive amount in it, but in a perennial league their players are less likely to break, and they have the movement and skills to score quickly or time the score when that's a better option. They can cage and bash weaker opponents, they can stall and hit surgically against stronger opponents.

    I know what you're saying about the early game, but I think Dark Elves have more of an edge in the earlier game. The roster above suffers from a lack of pace and I know they can be successful early but I think that tends to be in the hands of a very experienced player.

    Part of this opinion is very much influenced by an article I read on the plasmoid site, but obviously we're talking about the difference between four very good high tv teams. What edges it for me is pro elves or woodies can suffer a massive tv loss is they make a mistake, and that this is less likely if you're high elves.

    Having said that Murkglow, I know you have a lot more experience in the game than me, and I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake of it. That's why I think they are better later on.
     
  5. RogueThirteen

    RogueThirteen Member

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    I agree with the above comments - High Elves simply aren't as good as the other passing elf teams when starting out (setting aside the Dark Elves, who have a fairly distinct elf game).

    The lack of a good spread of skills (especially on the catchers) means that they really need rerolls at the beginning, and taking three means you're only getting a few of your expensive positionals.

    High Elf Catcher: Catch
    Pro Elf Catcher: Catch, Nerves of Steel
    Wood Elf Catcher: Catch, Dodge, Sprint [only Str2]

    High Elf Blitzer: Block
    Pro Elf Blitzer: Block, Side Step
    Wardancer: Block, Dodge, Leap


    So, the High Elf positionals start out much less flexible and reliable than their other elf counterparts. This also means that it takes HE positionals one to two level-ups just to get their skills looking like their other elf counterparts' starting skills. Which means even at higher levels, your HE positionals aren't going to be as flexible or reliable as other elf teams' equally developed players.

    The thing it seems High Elves have going for them is their AV8 (except for the catchers). Their overall high costs is roughly on par with the Wood and Pro Elves, the positionals all have the same skill access, and they all have 50,000 rerolls.


    General outlooks of the community tend to be that in a long league, a high TV High Elf team will be better than a WE or PE team at the same value. This seems to be because AV8 makes enough of a difference to offset the fact that your positionals will all have one to two less skills compared to equally experienced positionals from the alternate elf teams, possibly also because your non-catcher players will tend to live stay on the roster longer than their AV7 counterparts.


    I've been trying to settle on a team for my second league, and I've been seriously contemplating running High Elves and have made a custom team for them. Though, I may end up runnning it as a Pro Elf team because I'm skeptical that the AV bonus really offsets the other disadvantages when compared to WE/PE (but I'm still a relative BB novice).
     
  6. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    :confused:

    I was just asking that's all. I had always thought of it one way so I wanted to hear why you consider it the other way. It's not like you're necessarily wrong or I'm necessarily right.

    Honestly I don't consider the HE catcher to be much worse then any of those you mentioned. +1 Str easily puts it above the WE catcher to me. The Pro Elf catcher is distinctly better but is on a more fragile team.

    Sure HE Blitzers are the worst of the Elf blitzers (well tied with DEs) but then they are not the only players on the team.

    Agreed, that doesn't seem like a good arguement for saying they are the best elf team at high levels does it?

    And that armor is why I personally consider them easier to start off as. Yes they lack skills but when they get hit they also don't crumble like Pro/Wood Elves (and in my post I did make special exception for Dark Elves who I consider the best elf team both early and at the end).

    And see the fragility of an early Pro/Wood team is fixed a bit as you get higher while HEs can't really match those team's advantages as easily (especially the WE's +1 Mv) which is why I consider WEs to be above HEs at the end.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  7. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    I definitely agree with you about the Catchers Murk. They can develop into lovely players. I think I'd rather have the +ST any day.

    Also I think the catchers become the high elf blitzers when developed and they are very good at that, and then you can turn the blitzers into man markers which they are very good at (say dodge, side step, diving tackle, tackle).

    I wasn't seeing my arse with you though Murk. All I meant was that in general, I'd advise most people to take your advice over mine. Meant as a compliment although not explained very well.

    I still think even if Woodies are stacked with protection skills though I would fancy my chances of taking a few of them out with a bit of tackle... Not as easy to do that to the High Elves...

    Another thing is the win percentages. Woodies do win more games in the early stages, although I haven't got them to hand, and that also doesn't necessarily mean that High Elves are better late. Woodies win tonnes of games in the late stages too.
     
  8. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yup, hard to pin down exact comparatives here but all in all my humble experience tells me that among the 4 elf races, at start Woodies and Darks are the most foregiving: Wooddies can start with plenty of skills and excellent positinals including 2 blodge right off the bat, and that is a lot of "staying" power. Darkies have access to an awsome 4 block blitzers, plus the first witch is typically on the starting roster or appears soon thereafter.

    HE and Pro´s start with the least blocking related skills of all (i.e. block or dodge) and that is why they suffer at low levels more than the first 2 imho. Whenever I start a HE or Pro elf team I always have this feeling of being "naked" the first few games, and until i get some dodge in my blitzers and catchers and a couple wrestle/block around (never have that feeling when i play woodies or darkies). This distinctive lack of dodge also makes them eat rerolls like crazy al low levels. Darkies dont have much dodge either at start (except the witch) but they can afford to block their way out of marking much more often, plus they have default dodge access in witches.

    All elves can probably score efficiently enough, but it is this distinctive lack of blocking skills that make Pros and High ones a bit weaker at start.

    At high levels, all elves can be very good, but all things being equal first impressions would suggest that after having an average of 2 or 3 skills per piece, that AV8 may give an edge to those elves that have it. Alas reality seems to be different. Check the NAF tourney stats for LRB6 compiles by doubleksulls:

    NAF Results

    Woodies all the way. :D High Elves seem to be the worst performing elves overall followed closely by Pro´s, although this table mixes all TV levels.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  9. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I personally find that High Elves are the hardest of the 4 elf races to play with out of the box. The lack of starting skills is not really compensated for by the higher armour value in the beginning. In order to start with 3 re-rolls you basically have to forgo having any catchers on the roster and that makes the team quite slow. So all you need to do is fail a couple of dodges or a couple of blocks with :bothdown: results early on in a game and you can get into trouble quickly.

    That being said I think that High elves become very strong from around 1500 TV onwards, when you have 3 or 4 catchers and a decent amount of Dodge, Wrestle and Block on the roster.
     
  10. mooowi

    mooowi New Member

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    Highelfs are very good to start as well. You just gotta mod your strat a bit. I find taking a catcher instead of a thrower to start helps a lot. To be honest the thrower does not offer much to a starting team. The catcher can run the ball with the move 8 and pass just as well. I would sugest early on to use more of a running game with highelfs rather then a passing game. They can hold up well on the line and score real easy with the speed on the blitzers and catcher.

    The thing is if you have a reroll a catcher is just as good a passer.

    My starting roster with highelfs is always
    2 blitzers
    1 catcher
    linemen and 3 rr

    when I first started with highelfs I sucked with them till someone told me to just play with them as a running team then I joined a private league and have dominated every game so far using a running game with short passes to get the score. They are very good at setting up screen plays and advancing the ball. ( OR wrestle dodge)

    Also I stay at one catccher till they have blodge then buy another get him blodge and so on. Never having more then 1 unskilled catcher on the roster. Cathcers are the key to the highelf game more then anything. They are an amazing defensive wepon
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011