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Orc Ideas against Chaos

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by CoachCarling, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. CoachCarling

    CoachCarling New Member

    Eventhough Orcs are supposedly one of the easier teams to play, I have a question for all the experienced coaches out there. It's a bit of a lengthy intro to a simple question, but please bear with me.

    Our League has been running for approximately 2 months now and my Orc team has been doing fairly well. Their value lies at +-1750 with a decent amount of skills. Block on all three Black Orcs i field, 2 Guard+SF Blitzers, an AG4 Blodge,Strip Ball Blitzer and a MB, Tackle Blitzer.

    During a recent Barbarians Challenge tournament (Read about that here(West Coast) Blood Bowl | Barbarians Challenge ) my team reached the final game before coming short against a Chaos team. So finally i come to the question.

    What is the best way for Orcs to play against an advanced Chaos team? It seems to me that in a straight up brawl, the Chaos have the upper hand. (mainly due to their access to Claw and the Minotaur and CW being superior to the Troll and Black Orcs respectively)

    Then again, in a more mobile game, they also seem to have the edge as once again, the CW are faster than the BO and all the Beastmen are MA6. The slight edge that the Orcs have at the start of the season (players that start with various skills) seems to be negated at higher TV as the Chaos team also gain skills.

    Any ideas? Is it a team composition problem or a tactics problem? Any advise or ideas are welcome
  2. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

    Hmm, I by no means an orc expert but I'd say it really depends on how you developed your team and what skill set you are facing.

    Chaos suck at ball handling, and usually rely on a couple of key players to pickup and carry the ball. On the other hand, line-orcs and gobbos are dirt cheap. So...

    Cheap players + key opposing players = FOUL THE HELL OUT OF HIM !

    Where is your dirty player, anyway? Get a target, and gang foul it.
    Against a claw + piling on + MB chaos warrior, it's called a preemptive strike.
    Against a big hand-sure hands goat, call it "establishing ball handling superiority".

    For the rest, I don't play orcs the way you do :)
    Depending on the league duration, my BO get guard instead of block. My thrower gets dump-off asap, 1st blitzer gets frenzy and I have at least one dirty player (or a sneaky git gobbo).
  3. sunnyside

    sunnyside Member

    Well I can't exactly claim to be a highly experienced coach.

    However just from looking around the large league I play in, it certainly does seem that chaos starts off having a hard time with pricey positionals and lack of skills, but is a real powerhouse when you get to high TVs.

    One problem advanced Orc teams seem to have is getting the SPPs distributed. Chaos can skill up their Warriors pretty well in addition to their beastmen.

    However Orcs often have mounds of SPPs on their blitzers, but have anemic BOBs, who would really benifit from having two skills.

    Thus the Orcs get outguarded and overpowered.

    Though once you resolve that there still is the claw issue. Judging by the SPPs on winning lists, a counter to this is to actually develop a passing game, and to not ignore the gobbos (for sneaky git/dirty player and also some TTM fun I presume).

    I'm afraid I probably couldn't give the best advice on how to do those things, but at least it's something for you to mull over.

    TTM would seem to be useful in such a matchup though. It gives you a chance at one turn touchdowns, making a 2-1 grind harder to pull off against you, and it gives you an option for cracking their defense. Throw a gobbo at a typical five player cage and there is a ~1/4 chance that they'll hit one of the five, at which point a blitz should be able to get at the ball. But again, I'm speaking from inexperience there.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2009
  4. voyagersuk

    voyagersuk Member

    A couple of diving tackle gobbos and the threat of hail mary pass on a second thrower is a starting place
  5. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

    Country Flag:
    Well Orcs start out with the advantage of higher armour and more Block. Given the time it takes for Chaos to skill up and get Block and Claw, you can have more Block + Guard/Mighty Blow. If the chaos have loaded up on Claw then they are going to be light on ball handling skills and things like Tackle.

    Another thing to consider is the make up of your league. If it is very bashy there won't be many players with Dodge. With the higher armour in the league and lack of Dodge, Chaos teams are going to be light on Tackle and high on Claw. This makes Dodge a very very good skill to take. If they can't knock you over they can't break your armour.

    You can also spread the play out, if they have the ball they will need players to cover it. This should let you out hit the rest of the team with weight of numbers and Guard. Don't be afraid to foul their players you fear the most either. They are also not likely to have Dodge, a Wrestle guy will take down their block players fairly easily if you can get the assists in and then stick the boot in.

    Kicking deep will also spread their team out even more and as well as the above you could also try and throw a Side Step and Diving Tackle Goblin and pin down the ball carrier, or even knock him over.

    I would also imagine if the chaos team has skilled up quickly you will be getting inducements if your Black Orcs haven't. Consider a Wizard to fireball him, a Chainsaw guy and some bribes, or if you are worried about KOs then Bloodweiser Babes.

    As most of his team will be AV8, Mighty Blow is better against AV8 than just Claw is against AV9. He will be fearing the bashing game as much as you I suspect.
  6. CoachCarling

    CoachCarling New Member

    Thanks for all the replies. Let me give my thoughts on some of the answers.

    This is very true. My Blitzers are shooting through the levels, while my BOB are struggling to gain that important second skill. I'm now going to make a concerted effort to level my BOBs. I foresee many frustrating re-rolls burnt, but hopefully it will pay off.

    The TTM tone-turner has a very very low chance of success, but i have thrown gobbos at cages. No luck so far, but i'll keep chucking them.

    Although a good plan in theory, the chances of it working is IMO too small to justify the skill investment. I'd rather give my Gobbos catch and my Thrower Accurate(if i want to go the passing route)

    Nope. Our TVs are pretty equal unfortunately.

    This is true and the way forward I think.

    So, my plans are to try and level up my BOBs, give most MB(as they already have Block) and go to work on his Beastmen. Apart from that, keep the ball on my Thrower and threaten the pass play with my Gobbo and AG4 Blitzer, thereby hopefully thinning out his line.
  7. sunnyside

    sunnyside Member

    Still, it's the only option you've got if they manage to score on their turn 8 on the half the recieved in.

    I think the idea of hail mary pass is that you aren't going the passing route.

    You're trying to score on a nice cage and run, with a thrower who has sure hands to keep the strip balling leapers off of them.

    You'd make the hail mary pass when you're up to your eyeballs in TZs with no way out. Just get the ball into a corner of the field where, ideally, they won't be able to reach on their next turn, but that you'll be able to get to on your next turn.