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Dark Elf Injured Runner

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by makinde, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. makinde

    makinde Member

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    I have a fairly young Dark Elf team (4 blitzers/1 runner/5 linemen) that ended up taking a beating in a couple of matches.

    Unfortunately, the Runner picked up an injury that gives him -AV, meaning he is now AV6. He has only managed 4 SPP, so there's not a lot of development invested in him yet.

    I am already two players down for my next match (1 blitzer out in addition to being a player short). The question that I'm considering now is whether I should drop the Runner right away (meaning that I will have 3 linemen mercenaries for the next match) or keep him until I can bring the team up to strength where he can be replaced at the same time that I fire him (presumably 3 games, given average rolls on winnings, my current cash reserves and no further casualties).

    I am leaning toward firing him right away, on the gut feeling that - with AV6 - he will be more of a liability than an asset for our next match. I figure he is simply a target and an easy way for the opposition to get me down to 10 players in the match early and consequently an extra merc lineman (AV8) is likely to contribute more to the team (and the added chance of SPP on the merc makes no difference, as any further SPP on the runner are also "wasted").

    Correct thinking, or am I missing something?
     
  2. Strobinator

    Strobinator Member

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    That depends if the inducements will be any different by picking up a cheap loner lineman vs. the runner. If not, you might consider holding onto him for a game. The question is whether 1AV or not having loner is more valuable to you.

    But if having the more expensive runner results in not getting an inducement you want (or your opponent getting one or not) then fire him.
     
  3. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    It's not just 1 av it's 2 since he'll be getting a Lineman with AV8 in his place.

    To me the only real draw of that Runner is the Mv7, otherwise a Lineman is going to be a better unit (of course Loner hurts a bit but oh well).
     
  4. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Well, it's not "just" a difference of 2AV either - it's 2D6 after all, so the difference between AV6 and AV8 is major.

    An AV8 player will suffer an injury on approximately 28% of all knockdowns - for an AV6 player, that risk increases to around 58%. If he runs into a Mighty Blow player, the chances of injury increase to >70%.

    This is why I am considering dropping him. Given that any block has >50% chance of putting him out of the match for a considerable time (not to mention what fouls will do to him), is the additional 1MV and reroll flexibility really worth very likely playing most of the match with one less player?

    Of course, it hurts even more than I'll be down a Blitzer too, so my team will only have 3 MA7 players in the next match if I drop the Runner, which will hurt our ability to play wide. But again, as my thinking goes, a MA7 player lying in the injury box isn't much use...
     
  5. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I would fire him, but I might wait until I could afford a replacement. Depends on your upcoming matches really.
     
  6. lamaros

    lamaros Member

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    You're confusing breaking armor with injury.
     
  7. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Dropping him makes sense to me, if only because I'd view him as such a target if I was playing against him, especially if I have mighty blow available - AV6 would be free star player points as far as I was concerned.

    Also from my view point, 3 loners on the scrimmage line aren't likely to be the players you use to score. But the runner is, so if you're planning on firing him and he does score, he diverts star player points away from others.

    Its not as significant as re-hiring a new player though, as the loner has just as much chance of stealing the MVP points away, but at least dropping him forces you to make those scoring plays with a blitzer or more permanent lineman.

    MA 6 from a lineman vs MA 7 from a crippled runner doesn't seem enough to me to make him worth keeping.
     
  8. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Nope - by the definition of the rules, beating the armor of a player results in an injury (i.e., a roll on the injury table). But I agree the terminology is hopelessly confused - breaking armor is probably a better term. :)


    Thanks for the observations and advice.
     
  9. Exavia

    Exavia Member

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    Sack him, it removes the temptation in wanting to make him do anything remotely like scoring.
     
  10. maxcarrion

    maxcarrion Active Member

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    I'd ditch him, he doesn't bring enough of use to be worth fielding him over a journey elf, he's just a liability and being able to field a 3rd loner for the LOS is much more useful, use the blitzers if you need to move fast :p
     
  11. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Well, I ditched the dodo and was fortunate that none of my three loners picked up the MVP in the match which ended 0-0, though I would have won it if my 3+ pass with a reroll had not failed. Ah Nuffle!

    Now I'm back up to 9 players (yay) and with all 4 blitzers available. Unfortunately, the stupid "winnings" bug that is going on the Cyanide servers at the moment meant that I only received 30K winnings instead of 50k - just enough to buy 1 Lineman - not enough for a replacement runner.

    I'm facing yet another Orc team next, and trying to determine how to build back the team into something useful. The line-up currently:

    2 Blodge Blitzers
    2 Regular Blitzers
    1 Kicking Lineman
    1 Wrestling Lineman
    3 Regular Lineman

    I already have an apotechary and 3 rerolls, so I don't see the point in investing more there.

    I could buy a lineman in order to minimize the risk of my next MVP going to a mercenary (better choice, perhaps is to save the money and consider buying the merc afterwards, if he gets the MVP).

    Save for a Runner. Apart from the fact that my previous Runner was a butterfingers par excellence and couldn't pass to save his life, I really like that positional.

    Save up for an assasin. The remaining three teams I will face after the Orcs are Undead (2 ghouls and 2 skeletons), Skaven, and Humans (2 catchers). I've played far too few games with Assasins, but it certainly seems like the match programme could make him very useful.

    Save up and hope that I get 40k+ winnings; buy a witch elf.

    Opinions?
     
  12. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Having a good run with this team at the moment, winning my two last matches. It now contains:

    2 Blodge Blitzers
    1 Tackle Blitzer
    1 Fast (+1 MV) Blitzer
    1 Witch Elf
    1 Kicking Lineman
    1 Wrestling Lineman
    3 Regular Lineman

    I finally have enough gold to restore my line-up to 11 players and take my pick of the player I want.

    I'm playing a private league, with my next match against a well developed Skaven side (1 Blitzer is MNG, but otherwise wrestle or block on almost all players), in what will probably be the pool "final" (i.e., whichever of us wins has good chances of winning the group).

    Normally, I think I would have taken my second Witch Elf now, but given the circumstances, I am thinking of taking an Assasin instead. Unlike the Rookie WE, the assassin would seem able to potentially make a real difference for this match - making the usual Skaven offensive play with Blodging Gutter Runner's extremely risky (useful, as I only have 1 tackle player) and posing a constant injury causing threat to the Skaven for as long as he remains on the field.

    What do other DE coaches think? Is the assassin a good enough player in general that getting him now would be worthwhile (my plan would then be to take the second WE as my 12th player - assuming the current team survives to that point).
     
  13. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Hmm - no opinions on the utility of hiring an Assassin? Or has the question been debated out entirely?
     
  14. Doover

    Doover Member

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    Seems like I´m one of the few coaches who actually like them. But I can´t use them a lot ´cause I buy the other players first and don´t have a high rated Delf Team right now.

    So I say buy him and stap his player. Remember you can stab even if he is stronger or has more assists.
    Sometimes one stabbed player is enough to create somd assists and bring down his whole line one after the other.

    Some people start hunting your assassin so they don´t hunt your witch.

    If you really like a risky play you can stick your assassin to his Ratogre. If he attacks you he has to follow and if you survive and stand you can stab his AV 8. If he tries to go away with break tackle then you can follow with shadowing and he can only break tackle once.
    Sadly you only have AV 7 so if you can´t stab him quite fast your assassin will leave the field quite fast.
     
  15. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I'm not that experienced with Dark Elves, but I think the Assassin could fare well against the lower armoured Skaven, but it depends who else you have to play as well, he doesn't do as well against tougher opponants and it might feel like wasted cash if he's sat on the bench because your matches are dwarves and orcs for example.
     
  16. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    If this is your final match go ahead and take the Assassin. He doesn't need to level up to be useful so he's a fine end game addition to a team, especially vs a low armor team like Skaven.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  17. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Not the last match in the group; but the last match is against a Human team, so an assasin should be useful (if not brilliant) in that game too.

    If I beat the Skaven, of course, the chances of advancing to the playoffs are much improved where I'll no doubt run into a bunch of Dwarves (they're doing well). I don't see the point of speculating too much on that, but since this is a team I want to carry forward, I do want to develop the team with the future in mind.

    Sans this match, my plan would have been to purchase the second Witch Elf next and then a runner as my 12th player for a base team of 4 Blitz - 2 WE - 1 Runner - 5 LineElfs (with a little luck on the winning rolls, that might even occur before potential playoffs).

    The alternative plan is to take the assassin in place of the Runner, with the Runner being a potentially 13th player signing (assuming the team survives that far). I suppose a Runner isn't very much more hard-headed than the assassin, but in the games I've played I've often felt the former works better for the team - the assassin being very much hit or miss.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  18. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    If you're looking at this into the future then I'd take the witch elf. She needs at least a level (if not more) to really hit her stride so getting her earlier so she can skill up is definatly a good thing.

    I had thought you were just looking to the short term which is why I agreed on the assassin, if you're keeping your eye on the long term then IMO the second witch is the way to go.
     
  19. makinde

    makinde Member

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    Hmm... you think he is that much of a liability?

    Thanks for all the comments. Have to say I remain undecided, given that he might be a game winner for that match (due to his potential for breaking down the typical Skaven offensive play). He could also be useful in dropping my next opponents Human catchers. Having played a few matches against DElfs w/assassin, I see the problem of his fragility, though... he easily gets to spend a little too much time lying on the floor or permanently off the pitch.
     
  20. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Not really. I mean he's low armor but any of your guys except your Linemen and Blitzers are the same. You probably want to get him a level or two eventually to pick up Blodge just to help him out but if you're vigilant not to leave him in contact with standing opponents he's not too vulnerable (just their Blitz/failed Stabs and frankly if they use their Blitz each turn on your assassin that's fine as he's not a key ball carrier or anything).
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011